Let's reframe the Israel debate

[shira]

According to the Reut Institute, Israel’s legitimacy in the West is under assault in politics, academia, trade unions, the media and churches. There is a worrying disconnect between Israel’s excellent relations at government level with its European allies, while grassroots public opinion is increasingly alienated. Israel’s advocates never tire of repeating how much Israel wants peace, and what a boon this tiny country is to the world in technology, science, agriculture, ecology, immigrant absorption - if only the media would cease focusing on bad news from Israel, holding up its microscope to every blemish and imperfection.

But are we putting across the right message? The argument will be won or lost on the liberal Left, which dominates the West’s opinion-forming class.

We need to explode the misconception, commonly held on the Left, that Israel is an outpost of western colonialism and imperialism. Jews were indigenous to the region 1,000 years before the Islamic conquest, with an uninterrupted presence not just in Palestine, but all over the ‘Arab’ world. The Arab invasion turned native Jews and Christians into minorities in their own lands, converting them to Islam, appropriating their shrines and erasing their history. Jews ‘stealing Arab land’ is an offensive inversion of reality. Jews in 10 Arab countries were stripped of their rights and in most cases dispossessed of their property.

The terms we use undermine Jewish rights to our ancestral homeland. ‘Settlements’ and ‘West Bank’ reinforce a sense that the land has always been Arab, and paint Israelis as colonialist imposters. Yet, until their ethnic cleansing in 1948, Jews had always lived beyond the Green line. Yet it must be said that to talk of Judea and Samaria, and Israeli ‘communities’, not settlements, in no way precludes an Israeli withdrawal as part of a peace deal.

more...
http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Opinion/Article.aspx?id=253165

[shira]

1. More from the article...

We need to restore a vital context to the discussion: the conflict is not between the Israeli Goliath and the Palestinian David. It pits six million Israelis against 300 million Arabs. In terms of values, the battle is between pluralistic, democratic Israel and the jihadists of Islam. The Palestinians are not independent agents. Economically they are propped up by international aid; strategically, they represent a pan-Arab, and increasingly pan-Islamic cause; politically, they are controlled by external regional forces.

We need to emphasize that half the Jews of Israel never left the region - they were uprooted from the Arab and Muslim world to a tiny sliver of land on the Mediterranean. If these Jews are now full and free Israeli citizens, it is largely because Israel offered them unconditional refuge from pre-existing Arab and Muslim anti-Semitism.

This anti-Semitism takes the form of an ancient religious contempt for ‘dhimmi’ Jews, on the one hand, and a modern, Nazi-inspired, genocidal Jew-hatred on the other. The former accounts for a deep religious and cultural resistance to the idea of a Jewish state. The latter drove out almost a million Jews from Arab states, and still drives the conflict with Israel. The violence and abuse suffered by these Jews constitute an unresolved human rights issue.

[vminfla]

18. Great article that highlights the imperialistic ambitions of arabs

I do not know how people seem to forget the Assyrians and all of the other civilizations that were - for all intents and purposes - ethnicallly cleansed from the Middle east. Jews are merely one more entry in the arab manifest destiny.

[bemildred]

2. I agree about the expelled Jews, best argument you have. Lot's of possibilities.

Real injustice was done. No good excuses for it. A clear case for anti-semitic intent.

But it won't work unless you also give the expelled Palestinians their due consideration too. Same rules for everybody, and you won't get to be the sole decider of that.

[Little Tich]

3. The Reut Institute is about the only pro-Israel source

I accept at face value when it comes to reporting facts.

http://reut-institute.org/

[azurnoir]

4. Thanks for your post

here's a bit from this institution

Putting a price tag and exposing the delegitimizers’ true agenda
This year, pro-Israel activists successfully managed to expose the true colors of some of
Israel's delegitimizers and exact a ‘price’ for their actions. This thwarted the efforts of these
delegitimizers to pretend to focus on ‘correcting’ Israeli policies, hiding the true essence of their
struggle to assault Israel's political and moral foundations, and turned acts of delegitimization
into a more risky endeavor.
􀂄 The Dutch Foreign Minister, Uri Rosenthal, conducted an inquiry over his
government’s indirect funding of Electronic Intifada, a Website that, among other things,
compares Israelis to Nazis, following a report by NGO Monitor (Jerusalem Post,
1/22/2011) and a newly formed coalition of bloggers and pro-Israel organizations in the
Netherlands, which launched an intensive publicity campaign on the web.
􀂄 Israel’s Ministry of Defense outlawed the London-based Palestinian Return Centre, a
Hamas-affiliated organization, also based on reports about its delegitimization activities,
such as those by Harry's Place, the Meir Amit Terrorism and Intelligence Information
Center, Mapping the Organizational Sources of Global Delegitimization Campaign
against Israel in the UK by Ehud Rosen from the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, and
the Reut report on London as a Case Study of a Hub of Delegitimization .
􀂄 “Irvine 11” – Ten of the eleven University of California, Irvine students who interrupted
a talk by Israel's Ambassador to the U.S. Michael Oren were convicted for conspiring to
plan the disruption (Los Angeles Times, 09/24/2011). The Jewish Community of Orange
County played in important role in bringing about this outcome.


http://reut-institute.org/data/uploads/PDFVer/20120101%20ReViews%20-%20Deleg%20in%202011%20-%20issue%2017_1.pdf

from the looks of it some here may well be working from this 'playbook'

[Little Tich]

5. The guys at the Reut Institute are pros

who write policy papers for the Israeli Government. I'm fascinated how they can write a paper on the assault on Israeli legitimacy without mentioning Netanyahu, the settlements, J Street or the attempt to get the UN to recognize Palestine, and still get it somewhat right in the end.

It's a very good playbook, and I wouldn't deny anyone the use of a source that actually works.

[azurnoir]

6. True enough but one thing

I've never really seen what exactly 'delegitimizing' Israel means most thing that are called delegitimizing are criticizing the occupation of the West Bank and or siege of Gaza so is Israel's 'legitimacy' tied to the occupation or what?

[oberliner]

7. Your question is answered in the report you linked to

Delegitimization means "portraying Israel as a pariah state and denying its right to exist".

[azurnoir]

9. really in exactly those words which in of themselves are quite open to interpretation

what I saw was that an opportunity was being seen to attempt to divide those that do not support the occupation or those that wish to see Israel's 'demise' or destruction, something that I seen here described as ending the occupation going back to the pre'67 lines removing the settlements ect and on and on and last but certainly not least a one state solution so when one takes a closer look and simply does not fall for catchy phrases and sound bites it comes back to the same thing

[Little Tich]

8. According to the Reut report, delegitimization means

“negating the Jewish people's right to self-determination” (p3, 3rd paragraph), which is a description as good as any, and can be used for many purposes, depending on how one defines the terms “Jewish”, “self-determination” and “negating”.

Israel doesn't see itself as an occupier of what it considers Jewish land.

[azurnoir]

10. exactly Israel does not see it self as an occupier as a thread recently run here said

IDF radio was to call the West Bank only by the name Judea and Samaria, so any challenge to the occupation is supposedly denying the Jewish right to self determination which was my point apparently Israel's legitimacy is tied to maintaining the occupation of the West Bank

[Little Tich]

11. As I see it, retention of the West Bank will lead to either Apartheid

or the dreaded One-state solution. Things are coming to a head IMHO, and the current situation with the occupation in a limbo will have to end.

[azurnoir]

12. I hope you're right about it having to end

but sometimes these days I'm not so sure

[pelsar]

19. then i shall explain....either you have no idea...or prefer not to

delegitimizing when discussing israel is attempting to show just how bad the country is, how its morals are simply not up to the "western standards." and hence not worthy of being a country.

it has nothing to do with the west bank or the occupation.

I won't get in to the various motivations for it, but its history is deep within the history of anti semitism, with such blood libels as christian blood for matza, protocols of zion. etc. So for those who do "demonize israel, may or may not be anti semites anti zionists, maybe even nice people who believe the "ends justifies the means"....the "company they keep and the history is hard to ignore."

the classics today are no longer the simplistic "blood for matza" but the more sophisticated " organs for money" as the obvious blood libel. A Israeli pathologist steals organs from many of the bodies that he deals with and the one, who wants to demonizes israel, uses on some of the facts to create a story line just how evil/immoral the country is (Palestinians organs were stolen by israel/IDF/Govt.....) and not the individual who is the criminal.

the second obvious one is the liberal gay rights israel has. Its a fact. When there are those who attempt to discredit israeli gay rights as somehow something bad, manipulated by the govt (rather pathetic attempts i might add), we see another attempt at delegitimizing israel govt, taking something so "good" and "using it for the evil agenda.

these are just two, for the most part they are rather obvious as are most of the attempts to delegitimize israel, but they do sucker in the less knowledgeable, to join in on one side, which is what its all about.....not based on the full facts, but manipulation of information and people against israel, israeli policies or just plain anti semitism- its a group effort based on manipulation of information...something i consider immoral, and not conducive to peace.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

21. I must add

When you respond to a poster that had never spent thirty seconds in Israel although interestinging reading, you might as well be talking to a wall.

Not only a wall, but a wall that knows more than you do. But as I said before, it is entertainment

[aranthus]

13. Interesting article, but he's dreaming if he thinks that Israel is going to win over the Left.

First, I dont' think he understands his audience. Who does he want Israel to win over; Liberals or the Left? Two different groups. Is there much of a Liberal political opinion in Europe? I don't know, but my gues is that it doesn't exist among the usual Left wing parties. And that's just part of the problem. For example, to start with he argues that Israel's position is under attack in politics, academia, etc., but he doesnt' really say why, except to suggest that the terms of the debate have shifted. Except that they really haven't. How long have the Arabs been arguing that Israel is a Western Colonial state? Since 1948. How long have they been arguing about the refugees? Since 1948. Not much in the region has changed except for the rise of Islamism. Not much in the way of attacks on Israel has changed. So what has changed? Europe, especially the European Left. Also, the American Left. European and American politics have shifted to the Left, and that is why Israel is under increasing attack.

Which is why it won't matter if Israel's supporters argue that Israel isn't colonialist. What matters is that Israel is perceived as Western and the Arabs are not. You want to change how the Left relates to Israel? Use dark skinned Israelis in your advertising. Stop speaking English. Just kidding, that wouldn't work anyway. Israel is Western, and the Arab states aren't, and that is what is going to matter to the Left.

Likewise, it isn't going to matter that Israel is outnumbered by the Arab states. Leftists aren't stupid. They know that Israel is much more powerful than the Arabs states. Want to get them on your side? Lose a war or two. Okay that would get a lot of you killed, but think of the sympathy the survivors, if any, would get.

Arguing Jewish refugees might make some sense, but it doesn't have any visceral appeal. There aren't any Jewish refugees anymore. They're all citizens of Israel, the US or some other place. Yes, they suffered, but they aren't suffering now. Ancient history can't compete with real time video of squalor. Now if Israel had kept all those Jewish refugees in camps for the last sixty years. . .

Now I well understand that there are people on this forum who consider themselves both Leftists and supporters of Israel I'm talking about the Leftists that dominate academia, the media, politics, etc.; the people that this author is claiming to try to reach. There may be some political affiliation that would be favorably impressed by a reframed debate, but the Western Left is not that group.

[shira]

14. Agreed. The irrational Left, just like the irrational Right, cannot be won over. n/t

[aranthus]

15. True. n/t

[Ruby the Liberal]

16. You may be interested in this OpEd

The Liberal Case for Israel

A few snippets:

The State of Israel was established in 1948 as a socialist nation, built on the wealth-sharing principles of its treasured agrarian collectives, known commonly as kibbutzim. More recently, Israel has vaulted into capitalism; and through its extraordinary entrepreneurial culture, the small nation has emerged as a global leader in technology development and clean energy innovation.

Children -- like all Israelis -- enjoy universal access to government-run health care, a socialized-medicine system that makes Obamacare seem Dickensian. And government efforts extend well beyond, addressing the broad educational, nutritional, and emotional needs of all of its children.

Israel has a proud, open, and vibrant LGBT culture; and its record of protecting gays and lesbians is considerably more progressive than the U.S. and most other Western nations.

[aranthus]

17. I've read it, and let me be clear.

I was not focused on Liberals. They aren't what shira termed the irrational Left. Of course there is a Liberal case for Israel, and that should be made. I was really trying to make two points. First, is that it seems that academia, the media, etc., is not Liberal these days, but is further to the Left, especially in Europe, and that is the reason for the increasing attacks on Israel. Second, is that the shifting of the debate that the author proposes isn't going to positively impact those Leftists. Not because they aren't rational, because they are. Instead, they have a very different world view and way of thinking than the author, and so his arguments, however logical they are to him, aren't going to move the Left

[pelsar]

20. and thats the point..they have a very different world view....

from what i have learned here, the basic foundation value of that particular world view, is what i call "floating standards.". That basically means there is not "one standard" one value system that is applied to everyone across the board and that is what is used to "measure" the morality of a society or country.

the "floating standard" is what is used, what is in essence no standard at all. Hence you find the "higher standard and its expectations" and a different standard with its "lower expectations.".

basically its a very very very racist view of the world and the inhabitants, since at its base its claiming that certain societies or groups cannot expected to live up to single standard and therefor are "excused."

the obvious ones are the excuses for hamas and their almost daily attempt to murder israelis (what choice do they have?, the rockets are only fire crackers and "don't count&quot . There are more subtle aspects as well, ignoring the religious base of the PAs laws, something that would cause nationwide protests in an existing western democracy, but is given a "pass" because they are not western, "white". This too is part of that mindset.

but the best of it all, is that in that world view, whereas there is a disdain for "colonialism" they are just as guilty. The most obvious example is how both hamas and israel have declared there is no gaza occupation, the two main actors involved, and yet we read time and time again from the "progressives" how there is an occupation and that "they" the progressives" simply know better than the locals, the brown skins, and its best if those locals just listen to their "betters."..and they simply don't seem able to see the blatant irony in that