Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumArab Israeli voters 56% turnout defies expectations
Arab voter turnout on Tuesday increased by 3 percentage points over 2009 to reach 56 percent, according to statistics released by the Central Elections Committee.
This is the first time since 2000 that there has been an increase from the sector. Nevertheless, the three Arab parties maintained the total of 11 Knesset seats they won four years ago.
“The high voting rates reflect the will of the Arab public to take part in the Israeli political process,” The Abraham Fund Initiatives – an NGO promoting coexistence and equality among Israel’s Jewish and Arab citizens, said in a report released on Wednesday.
Despite a previous downward trend in Arab voting, this election showed that the Arab public believes in their representatives in the Knesset and in their ability to promote Arab interests, according to the report.
http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=300917
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holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)Aren't we repeatedly told that Arabs in Israel are second-class citizens without the right to vote?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)They can vote, sure. It's just that thier votes don't carry much weight. Minority population and all that.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... are ALL minority populations in the world second-class citizens? Or just those living with Jews?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Ever been out to Indian country, Holden? All of them have suffrage, do you think the interests of the Lakota are well-represented in our government?
Do you think the interest of Persian Jews are well-represented in Iran's government? They can all vote, after all. So what if they can't hold government jobs (barring the one MP slot reserved for a jew) apparently voting is all that matters, right?
Arabs in Israel can vote. They can't intermarry with other Israelis (unless they travel abroad to do so) and they cannot marry Palestinians (or else they become exiles in the territories if they ever visit their spouse). They have insane difficulty acquiring building permits or buying land. They are barred from service in the IDF (barring Druze and Bedouin). Israel regards them as residents, not Israelis, and so does not apply certain basic national rights to them (such as the right to return home after traveling abroad for a time; their residency is revoked on paper after seven years abroad, and in reality has happened much earlier in some cases.) Arab schools are uniformly poorer, state welfare provides less for Arabs, on down the line.
Being able to cast a ballot does not make you equal.
pelsar
(12,283 posts)lets try this again....what information will you accept for you to admit that your wrong here?
we'll see if you have any "internet courage" (which is different from real life courage), and when proven wrong you will write it very clear and when others write it out, you will also reply to their post about how wrong they are.
oh...and please dont try to "move the goal posts" again. your statement was clear.
well?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I even let you have an "out" on that one, and you failed to provide. Why? Wouldn't it be easy to find a zionist who thinks the settlements could and - maybe! - even should be dismantled? Just one Zionist. That's what you offered, that's just what I asked for, and instead of finding one, you acted like any other right-wing chickenshit, and whined and whined about it.
Allow me to save you your sniveling and whining; My mistake, Arabs in Israel can volunteer for IDF service.
pelsar
(12,283 posts)i noticed that you moved the "goal posts"...go back an reply to your "movement" and then i'll provide you with the answer...and then you'll get to admit to another mistake....and after that another one, and another one.
but first dont move the goal posts....stick to your original claims....(be internet "brave"
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You promised me a unicorn. You asked me what kind of unicorn I wanted. Then bitched 'cause apparently you don't have any unicorns at all.
It's okay. I don't really believe in unicorns anyway.
pelsar
(12,283 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)It's fascinating to read.
pelsar
(12,283 posts)in fact i pretty much expect it, given the massive amount of propaganda out there, what i find far more interesting is the resistance to accept that the information they have is wrong.
I understand it....if you have a belief based on what you believe to be true facts, and those facts turn out to be wrong, that leaves you with a real dilemma, do you change your opinion? with all its implications (losing friends, allies of people who think the same) or do your resist and stay in your cocoon?
most people it appears prefer to stay put and dont change their opinions, the facts not being really relevant. I believe that is the case we have here.
if he even does answer, we'll watch some word games, that will have but one goal, not to admit that he is wrong....because his whole ideology is based on false information and that would be too much
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Speaking as one myself, I find it more than a little bizarre.
pelsar
(12,283 posts)on this board, which is suppose to be dissimaler to stormfront, i believe such posters should be challenged to either stand up and attempt to prove they are right, make a fool out of themselves and then disappear to a forum that better suites they ideology.....
just out of interest many israeli arabs (i dont remember the numbers) voted for likud as well as beit yehudi (jewish home)....not difficult to understand.
shira
(30,109 posts)We're seeing it in other threads here too WRT human rights, history, and legalities.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Nobody says they have complete equality.
sabbat hunter
(6,829 posts)Arabs can serve in the military, they are however exempt from the draft.
Israeli Arabs are citizens of Israel (hence the term Israeli Arabs)
They can marry any Israeli they like (there are many who do). They can marry people in the occupied territories, but they cannot bring them to Israel (Israel like every other country in the world does have the right to decide who is allowed in to the country and who isn't)
All Israeli Arab citizens hold the same citizenship as jewish, christian, Druze, Bedouin Israelis, can travel abroad and come back.
There are Arab parties in the Israeli parliament that is equal to their vote % in the elections. There can be (and often are)Arab Israelis holding ministerial positions and are elected on non arab party lines (The arab parties are how they self describe not how they are set by law)
pelsar
(12,283 posts)I'm trying a new concept here...for those who make false claims out of ideology, they should be forced to either back it up or when they cant recant their claim and when they fail, they should be "forced" to admit they were wrong...one claim at at time.
it wont change their own ideological point of view, but it will ruin their credibility here....
if you just correct them, they'll skip over your post and just continue as if you didnt write it (past experiences here)
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Marriage in Israel is religious, based on halakah law. There are no civil marriages performed; this is why it was an election issue for Yisrael Beitinu and Hatnuah. Interfaith marriages are simply not done in Israel because of this. A mixed couple can go abroad to wed (usually to Cyprus, is my understanding) and when they return the government doesn't say boo about it, but it strikes me that having to go abroad for something as basic as marriage is a little, uh, strange.
shira
(30,109 posts)You wrote that to strengthen your claim that Israeli Arabs are 2nd class citizens.
The fact is that in Israel, Israeli Jews cannot marry Israeli Jews-for-Jesus either. It has nothing to do with Arabs having 2nd class citizenship. So was that just an ignorant statement? Do you disagree for some reason? Or were you flat-out wrong?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Just curious, honestly.
As pertains to Arabs, they are already 2nd-class. The marriage thing simply helps enforce the segregation.
But hey, I'm just one of those wacky leftist who has no problem at all with people marrying whoever htey feel they should marry, regardless of race, sex, religion, that sort of thing. I understand that under the eyes of "Progressive Zionism" this view makes me a dangerous right-wing radical and all, but hey, that doesn't bother me 
shira
(30,109 posts)You brought that up to buttress your false claim they are 2nd class citizens when Israel's laws on marriage have nothing to do with its Arab population.
Regardless, Israel still recognizes every type of marriage (putting them ahead of the USA). It's not a perfect system, but it's a win for seculars and it also happens to make the religious happy.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Are Arabs 100% equal in all ways in Israel, Shira?
shira
(30,109 posts)Are you incapable of admitting you're wrong?
Arabs are 100% equal in all ways, by law.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)as are most Israeli Jews
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)But some people might consider them the same thing. And some may not. Shira My question is are you in Israel? And my other question is it true that Arabs-Israelis can not serve in the Israeli military?
pelsar
(12,283 posts)arab israelis can and do volunteer for the IDF, however they are not conscripted
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)
delrem
(9,688 posts)It's a bad sign that the first reply to this OP used rhetoric in an attempt to twist this vote into something that it is not. But then, that's just one voice.
I think, also, that often-used terms like "demographic threat" are always bad signs. How can they be otherwise?
But it's a good sign that more than half the non-Jewish electorate turned out. This turnout does indicate that a majority is agreeable with a certain continuity of process. A certain satisfaction with a deep structure of democracy. But it is, hardly, a mass vote for the status quo.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Bizarre that you would present those phrases as if they are equivalent.