Obama Pledges ’Unbreakable Alliance’ with Zionism

[King_David]

Local Editor
US President Barack Obama on Wednesday arrived in the Occupied Territories for the first time as president, vowing an "eternal" alliance with the Jewish entity.

Obama strove for reassurance as he faces skepticism over his strategy for confronting Iran and his personal commitment to the Zionist entity, following sharp public disagreements with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

"The United States is proud to stand with you as your strongest ally and your greatest friend," Obama said at a lavish welcoming ceremony, shortly after Air Force One rolled to a halt to a peal of military trumpets at Ben Gurion airport.

"Our alliance is eternal, it is forever," Obama declared, arguing America's vital national security interests mandated a strong defense of the Jewish entity, which he said "makes us both stronger."


http://www.almanar.com.lb/english/adetails.php?eid=86729&frid=23&seccatid=18&cid=23&fromval=1

[King_David]

1. 'vowing an "eternal" alliance with the Jewish entity'

It seems Al Manar has no problem recognising that Israel is a Jewish State.

[Jefferson23]

2. No surprise, he has always made these remarks. It was stated in this group that Obama was a Zionist.

He never said that, and that was the point. He does not say it here nor any
quote I am aware of..big difference.

[King_David]

5. Yep, seems like a huge difference,

LOL

[Jefferson23]

7. LOL, yea, it is and you still have no such evdience he ever said that..although

it was a claim of yours. You were emphatic about it, actually.

As I said, Obama has always made remarks such as the ones he said today..nothing new.
Now, Joe Biden did say he was a Zionist, back a few years ago..before the general election.

I am a Zionist, not the same as I support Zionism.

[King_David]

9. I said that?

Link it up please.


"it was a claim of yours. You were emphatic about it, actually. "

Can't see it in your link Mr.

[Jefferson23]

12. Sure:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=31369

[King_David]

14. You must have made a mistake with your link

because I can't see what your claiming I said in your posts above...

Link it up please.

[Jefferson23]

15. No mistake on my part..it's there.

They're all Zionists, according to you...not just supporters of Israel.

[King_David]

18. Yes it's true they are

Obama is proving that he is :



“More than 3,000 years ago, the Jewish people lived here, tended the land here, prayed to God here,” Obama said. “And after centuries of exile and persecution, unparalleled in the history of man, the founding of the Jewish State of Israel was a rebirth, a redemption unlike any in history. Today, the sons of Abraham and the daughters of Sarah are fulfilling the dream of the ages -- to be ‘masters of their own fate’ in ‘their own sovereign state.’ “


http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-74932090/

Obama = Zionist

Here read it again :

“More than 3,000 years ago, the Jewish people lived here, tended the land here, prayed to God here,” Obama said. “And after centuries of exile and persecution, unparalleled in the history of man, the founding of the Jewish State of Israel was a rebirth, a redemption unlike any in history. Today, the sons of Abraham and the daughters of Sarah are fulfilling the dream of the ages -- to be ‘masters of their own fate’ in ‘their own sovereign state.’ “

[Jefferson23]

19. Oh for crying out loud.

Believe the fantasy he ever claimed he was a Zionist.

[oberliner]

20. What do you think Zionism is?

And what do you think makes Obama not a Zionist, if you believe he isn't one.

[Jefferson23]

24. Oh please oberliner, save any lesson you imagine I may need about Zionism.

Wait for him to say it, I wonder why he has not, as did Biden.

[oberliner]

43. Not a lesson, just a question

I would be curious to know how you define Zionism and what positions you think Obama holds that makes him not one, if you believe he isn't one.

[Jefferson23]

45. I do not determine what Zionism means, do you have your own version, oberliner?

I already have repeated several times, I do believe there is a significant difference
between supporting Zionism as Obama does and proclaiming you're a Zionist...which
he has not.

[oberliner]

46. The movement to establish and preserve a Jewish homeland.

That would be the definition I come across most frequently, and it is my understanding based on statements and actions over the past five years that President Obama is a Zionist, in that a Zionist is someone who supports Zionism.

I am not understand the distinction you are making. What is a Zionist if not someone who supports Zionism?

Edit to Add:

To help me understand where you are coming from, can you tell me what distinguishes someone who is a Zionist from someone who simply supports Zionism?

[Jefferson23]

60. So you do have your own version, ok. There exists no one united across the board ideology regarding

Zionism. According to you, huge numbers of people would identify themselves as Zionists with your
narrow definition.

Based on statements by Obama over the last 5 years you believe he is a Zionist, that is an
amazing conclusion to come to. He is a political leader first, and has been criticized by Zionists
in Israel and the US for his Cairo speech.

I think it is a stretch to even suggest that he is, but, whatever.

If he ever states he is a Zionist, I'll believe it then.

[King_David]

23. Where'd I say :"he ever claimed he was a Zionist. "

Link it up...
( cos it wasn't in the link you provided , he he )

I believe that's your fantasy Mr.

[Jefferson23]

26. I believe you were clear in your last post..uh, fantasy. n/t

[King_David]

28. Obama is a Zionist ...

I'm not exactly sure what your arguing here..

Are you arguing he's not a Zionist or that he never said he's a Zionist?

Well Mr. ... It us not possible for someone to say this, and not be a Zionist :

“More than 3,000 years ago, the Jewish people lived here, tended the land here, prayed to God here,” Obama said. “And after centuries of exile and persecution, unparalleled in the history of man, the founding of the Jewish State of Israel was a rebirth, a redemption unlike any in history. Today, the sons of Abraham and the daughters of Sarah are fulfilling the dream of the ages -- to be ‘masters of their own fate’ in ‘their own sovereign state.’ “



Read em and weep ...

Or if you prefer ....

SLAM DUNK !!!!

[Jefferson23]

31. He never has made the statement he was a Zionist.

Unlike Biden, who has, you feel this is irrelevant..I do not, not at all.

There is nothing to weep over, Obama as I said to you in my first post has always
made his devotion to Israel, well known.

No need for you to worry.

I have no idea what you imagine you're slam dunking...your head?

[King_David]

33. Well then again I ask you to link up where I posted that

Obama "has made the statement he was a Zionist."

Link it up

You can not.... Can you ????

He he

[Jefferson23]

35. I already did in your earlier post..in this thread. And it's hee hee, not he he. n/t

[King_David]

36. Here's your link in full , point it out to us all please,

15. I do believe most anti Zionists are Anti Semites
On the far left and far right , I also believe the vast majority of Jews are Zionists and I know the overwhelming majority of our Democratic Party representatives , Democratic Party senators and our President are all Zionists.


.........................

Ridiculous time is over ....

He he he

[Jefferson23]

37. Then read it, again. You're saying Obama is a Zionist even though he never said such a thing,

that's rich...and here you are again:

Obama is a Zionist ...


I'm not exactly sure what your arguing here.


Are you arguing he's not a Zionist or that he never said he's a Zionist?

Well Mr. ... It us not possible for someone to say this, and not be a Zionist :

“More than 3,000 years ago, the Jewish people lived here, tended the land here, prayed to God here,” Obama said. “And after centuries of exile and persecution, unparalleled in the history of man, the founding of the Jewish State of Israel was a rebirth, a redemption unlike any in history. Today, the sons of Abraham and the daughters of Sarah are fulfilling the dream of the ages -- to be ‘masters of their own fate’ in ‘their own sovereign state.’ “



Read em and weep ...

Or if you prefer ....




SLAM DUNK !!!!

[King_David]

38. Is it possible for someone who is not a Zionist to say:

“More than 3,000 years ago, the Jewish people lived here, tended the land here, prayed to God here,” Obama said. “And after centuries of exile and persecution, unparalleled in the history of man, the founding of the Jewish State of Israel was a rebirth, a redemption unlike any in history. Today, the sons of Abraham and the daughters of Sarah are fulfilling the dream of the ages -- to be ‘masters of their own fate’ in ‘their own sovereign state.’ “



I think not !!!


Sigh

[Jefferson23]

39. When you find the quote, similar to Biden's, post it.

I'll do the same for you.

In the mean time, do not misunderstand me, as I have said before
Obama has always been devoted to Israel. That will not change unless
Israel's interests interfere with ours..then you may not be pleased with
President Obama, nor perceive him as a Zionist.

[King_David]

40. I have no need to go look for such a quote

What Obama said is sure to be enough for Zionists and Bigots to pass judgement on the President .( indeed it already is)

[Jefferson23]

41. Uh huh, you do that, ignore the quote...if you ever find one. n/t

[shira]

42. Agreed. No one but a Zionist would say that. n/t

[King_David]

44. Exactly

[demwing]

3. Bullshit title

Not even close to the truth

[King_David]

4. What is the truth ?

Is this a better headline ?

Obama vows steadfast support for Israel

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/03/20/obama-israel.html

[azurnoir]

6. so a question how does that translate ie what exactly does that mean "support for Israel" ?

now I expect a link to something possibly on this thread or a repeat of my comment in form or another but can you tell us exactly what in your mind "support for Israel" means? as it can mean anything from support for Israel's continued existence to support for everything Israel does including the settlements in West Bank or Judea and Samaria if you wish?

[King_David]

8. The USA is Israel's greatest friend and supporter

And I expect it will continue after today.

Settlements like Right of Return are internal matters for Israel and the new state of Palestine to work out as part of a comprehensive peace agreement or if that does not occur I am not against a unilateral disengagement by Israel with full security considerations.

[Mosby]

10. I can't believe the amount of Obama hatred this trip is engendering in DUers

I know that the many marxists, communists, socialists etc. That post here don't like Obama but damn. this is like that cliche "a perfect storm".

[Jefferson23]

13. Many Marxist, communists and socialists that post here don't like Obama..really?

Is that how you interpret disagreements..those people must be one of the three groups?

This is amazing.

[Mosby]

17. I'm a Liberal, what are you?

This is a "disagreement"?

Why bother persuading someone who sees you as subhuman?

Who cheered on the mass bombing of your homes and families. Who denies your right to even have a home? Who is spending his week eating big state dinners with the leaders of a nation that has decided you need to be "put on a diet."

I don't think the president would be particularly receptive to polite attempts at persuasion, Mosby. Nor do I blame anyone in Gaza for not being first in line to offer it.

This poster is calling our president a racist. That's a bit more than a disagreement, no?

[Jefferson23]

22. A racist? You're kidding, right?

The Palestinians do not have an honest broker with the US. The US Congress
did in fact collectively unite in support of OCL back in 2008.

If you could look at the conflict through their eyes, I believe you would see
why they feel hopeless the US will help them.

And you did not answer my question, if you're referring to other posters and
it seemed you were, I suggest if you would..explain your statement earlier.


If you read OP's on education and Arnie Duncan, you may find yourself labeling
the opponents of this appointment and his work many things..but they do not
fall under the heading of Marxist, communist etc.

OP's about drones, same thing.

OP's about the environment, climate change..same.

OP's about Wall Street, same thing.

I don't think I need to go on.

[Mosby]

27. Maybe I didn't make it clear

The conversation started with me saying that stomping on a US flag is not a good way to persuade President Obama.

Scooters replied:

Why bother persuading someone who sees you as subhuman?

So scootalo is saying that President Obama sees Palestinians as "subhuman".

Again, this is not just a disagreement, this is scootaloo calling our president a bigot.


edit link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=36352

edit two: frankly is says a lot that you would defend crap like this.

[Jefferson23]

34. I don't share the opinion with you he is referring to Obama as a bigot.

Not at all and Mosby, please know Obama's policies on many fronts on this political
forum call out Obama with many disagreements.

In this case it is about human rights ignored by US policy.

[Scootaloo]

49. And I explain why to Cali, as well

For the benefit of the thread, allow me to reiterate, maybe a little more clearly.

When someone takes the side of the oppressor against the oppressed, support the powerful over the powerless, they too become the oppressor. To do so requires a total denial of the basic humanity of the oppressed.

The US has unfailingly, unswervingly, totally been completely on the side of the powerful in the Israel / Palestine conflict. Our role has amounted to stymieing all efforts to bring power to the powerless in this conflict, whether our role as invincible goalie in the UNSC, or our role as Israel's personal advocate in "negotiations." We hold them down and the Israelis punch.

Obama had - and I hold my breath, hoping it could still be "has" - an opportunity to change this paradigm. From the looks of it, he has chosen to not do so. Rather he has chosen, as the presidents before him have chosen, to see the Palestinians as unworthy of his consideration. To fund and defend and arm and protect and advocate for the very people whose feet are on the necks of the Palestinians. To feed himself from the tables of politicians embargoing food from the hungry and beating hunger strikers.

I have no other way to describe this behavior, other than "seeing them as subhuman." Whether that is a reflection on the man, or on the policy the man represents is, to be totally honest, irrelevant. if he can't push for his own convictions then policy will have to stand in the place of those convictions, and if there is harmony between policy and convictions... same thing.

[pelsar]

50. you make it easy on yourself...

Last edited Thu Mar 21, 2013, 07:02 AM - Edit history (2)

since you define things so simplistically, so "black and white" you get to have very simple conclusions:

obama the racist (I believe is a clearer version of your "sub-human" description of Obamas views of the Palestinians as per your post.
___

however at least you are consistent in your simple black and white views of politics and political movements, so you get credit and internet medal of honesty (i'm in to medals this month).
___

since i was "called out" for calling you bigoted, will you being defended or "called out" for calling obama a racist?.... this should be interesting, dont you think? or will there be silence?

[Scootaloo]

56. I did not accuse Obama of racism. I accused him of moral cowardice and complicity with oppression.

There's a difference.

I don't think his stance is based on a hatred for Arabs. I don't think it's personal. I think he's taking the standard US policy in this situation and reiterating and reinforcing it. That policy very plainly dehumanizes the Palestinians. It always has, long prior to the Obama administration. My hope, naive as it was, was that maybe Obama would, if nothing else, soften that policy standard. Instead he just hardened it.

As I said in the previous post, I don't know if he has taken this position out of personal conviction or political expediency. I don't really think it matters though, as either way the result is the same - the president has committed itself to four more years of insisting that Israel shits ice cream and that the Palestinians should count themselves lucky to have a full bowl of it.

[pelsar]

57. i believe you wrote "subhuman" you were very clear.

i think thats a pretty good translation to racist, it usually is when applied to zionists, just ask the posters around here.....and nobody that i've ever read explains their racism or subhuman views as an "adopted policy (LOL...talk about excuses) and not a personal view.

so obama doesnt hate Palestinians.......its just means as your wrote, his "policy" is that they are less than human (equal to dogs? elephants? rats?)

so can we conclude:

zionists dont hate arabs, we just see them as "subhumans".....and that, as per your posts doesnt make us racists, its just policy!

or do zionists get a different definition of "subhuman"?

[mazzarro]

51. +100%

I am of the same view and I'm sick and tired of keeping quiet about the unfairness of it all. American's like to be in denial of the stupid and apartheid policies the Israeli occupation constitutes with the charade of calling for negotiations that they are quite aware amount to nothing but delays so that the Palestinians will capitulate at all cost.

[Shaktimaan]

54. But do you apply this philosophy evenly?

The US has unfailingly, unswervingly, totally been completely on the side of the powerful in the Israel / Palestine conflict. Our role has amounted to stymieing all efforts to bring power to the powerless in this conflict, whether our role as invincible goalie in the UNSC

It's interesting because you are choosing to look at this exclusively through the lens of power dynamics. Since your methodology here looks at the differences of power between groups to determine who is good and who is bad to then develop its narrative, it must be open to changes in those power differences, right?

So when we talk about Israel at the UN, as opposed to Israel in the OPT, it isn't the powerful oppressor anymore. By any measure Israel is the oppressed victim of powerful interests at the UN. In those proceedings the US is protecting the powerless victim from far stronger forced seeking to further damage their target in any way possible.

Would you care to comment on this use of your unique sociological methodology? I would love to hear if you now place yourself in the category of one who sides with the oppressor, and if so is it an admission that you consider Israelis to be subhuman?

[Scootaloo]

55. Again, you offer very bad arguments.

But I'm willing to respect you at least do so in a reasonable fashion. So kudos to you, Shaktimaan, you're fast becoming my favorite person to think is wrong about life, the universe, and everything

Alright, so let's take it.

1) Israel is not occupied by the UN. Israel is not bombed by the UN. The UN does not assassinate Israel's political leaders. The UN does not arrest Israeli children. The UN does not take Israeli land to build UN outposts. The UN does not have a food embargo against Haifa. The UN does not arrest Israelis and detain them without charge, nor does it torture them. The UN does not demolish Israeli homes, orchards, or families. The UN does not drop cluster bombs in Tel Aviv and assure the world that every single person who dies was a terrorist and needed to die. The UN does not open fire on Israeli fishermen plying their trade. The UN does not demand that Israel recognize that the UN is open only to particular ethnic groups, which happens to not include Jews. The UN has not built a fifty-foot concrete wall across Eastern Israel in order to supposedly protect people in the west bank from settlers invading (nor has it granted the Israeli land on the eastern side of that wall to Palestinians).

To call Israel oppressed because of censure attempts at the UN is sort of like those blithering idiot settlers who were claiming to be the victims of apartheid because they can't take over Area C.

2) At least the majority of these resolutions against Israel are called for in the UN because of Israel's status as the occupier and oppressor of the Palestinians. Maybe not all - I have to admit to not having read all of them, and i'm certain you haven't, either - but those iI have read all revolve around that status. They are attempts at corrective measures, and while you could argue how effective they are as such, that is their intent.

To call that "oppression" is little different than another group of blithering idiots here in the Us who think that affirmative action or equal-for-all holiday displays are oppressive to the white / christian majority.

You are in essence complaining that Israel is oppressed because the world does not condone the oppressions it levies. That's just a really dumb argument.

Of course it's coming from someone who seems to think that you can be racist against socialism. So...

late edit: Help, help, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is being OPPRESSED!

[Shaktimaan]

58. Bravo.

You listed some UN resolutions involving Israel and present them as my evidence. I'm sure that was fun for you.

Now. Why don't you try addressing the actual examples of UN discrimination and disenfranchisement against Israel and try to defend those?

Of course it's coming from someone who seems to think that you can be racist against socialism. So...

Yeah, I don't know what this is supposedly about since it isn't anything I ever said. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else. Or maybe you're attempting some kind of insult. If so, congratulations on slightly confusing me. (Am I supposed to make a wacky accusation back at you now? How does this work?)

[Shaktimaan]

59. Are you insinuating,

that Israel does NOT face any discrimination at the UN?

[King_David]

32. +1

[azurnoir]

11. oh so settlements are an internal matter I see thanks

and your for a unilateral disengagement by Israel, from where exactly?

[King_David]

16. I am in favor of a disengagement similar to that of the Geneva accord .

[azurnoir]

21. ya that seems to have gotten to be a popular thing to say

started around last November 29 or so

[King_David]

25. Nov 29. ?

[azurnoir]

29. yep on 11/29/12: Palestinians win implicit U.N. recognition of sovereign state

The 193-nation U.N. General Assembly on Thursday overwhelmingly approved the de facto recognition of a sovereign Palestinian state after Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas called on the world body to issue its long overdue "birth certificate."

There were 138 votes in favor, nine against and 41 abstentions. Three countries did not take part in the vote to upgrade the Palestinian Authority's observer status at the United Nations to "non-member state" from "entity."

The assembly approved the upgrade despite threats by the United States and Israel to punish the Palestinians by withholding funds for the West Bank government. U.N. envoys said Israel might avoid harsh retaliation as long as the Palestinians did not seek to join the International Criminal Court.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/29/us-palestinians-statehood-idUSBRE8AR0EG20121129

[King_David]

30. OIC

[Scootaloo]

47. To paraphrase Chuck Schumer...

It means we're set for another four years of strangling Palestinian and watching Dave and Shira jump around in glee over it.

All while piously assuring is they are for two-state and against settlements, of course... because they think the two states are Israel and Jordan, and of course there are no "settlements" within Israel, only towns, see?

[azurnoir]

48. and well how can they be settlers

no Conestoga wagons or anything

[King_David]

52. It's all a simple "debate " in DU for you..

Your biggest worry is how some people on an Internet forum will react.

For most of us in the other side it's all about our or families and friends future.

The other side is not "clear" on motivation.

[oberliner]

53. That's because the source doesn't use the word Israel

They use "Zionist entity" and whatnot.