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Israeli

(4,151 posts)
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 06:35 AM Sep 2013

The Return of the Israeli Left

Over the past few years, the Israeli left and its supporters have become targets for right-wing attacks. Its movements, foundations and human rights groups have been harassed by the right and its representatives in the establishment and the Knesset, with the latter initiating anti-democratic legislation intended to hurt them. Of all those groups facing this intimidation, the New Israel Fund (NIF) tops the list. It is one of the strongest, most active charitable organizations in Israel, dedicated to promoting social and civic initiatives, and advancing pluralism and equal rights throughout the country.

The first group to take aim at the NIF was “Im Tirtzu,” a movement that defines its mission as “to bring Zionism back to the center.” It talks about the importance of the flag and the national anthem, about restoring the “Zionist dialogue,” and about the struggle against anything it perceives as being anti-Zionist. It is in the name of these catchphrases, most of which sound like some attempt to increase national pride, that Im Tirtzu launched a crass, often violent struggle against anyone it regarded as its opponent.

In May 2010, the movement published a report dealing with a supposed “anti-Zionist trend” in the country’s universities. The report paid particular attention to Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, which was actually the subject of its own, special report in November 2011. As part of its conflict with the university, Im Tirtzu approached donors in Europe and the United States, and demanded that they stop contributing to the institution, claiming that the university employs anti-Zionist lecturers who are harmful to Israel. This campaign caused considerable damage to the university and created an intolerable situation. Ben-Gurion University is, after all, an important institution and the only school in the country’s south that offers students a chance to pursue academic studies. Now, however, it found itself fighting for academic freedom and freedom of expression for its lecturers.

(snip)

The campaign was personal, violent and crass. It made use of terms and imagery that portrayed the NIF staff in general and Naomi Chazan in particular as traitors. Im Tirtzu went on to provide accommodating journalists with all sorts of biased and one-sided details and stories. It was a campaign that played on the most sensitive chords of Israelis, who felt that the whole world was against them anyway, and who were looking for an easy target to blame. There was no easier target than the Israeli left, which had long been perceived by large swathes of the public as collaborating with the enemy and “stabbing the nation in the back,” because of its criticism of Israeli governments over the years.

A group of left-wing Israeli activists refused to be silenced. At the height of the campaign, they launched a Facebook page entitled “Im Tirtzu Is a Fascist Movement (So There).” Over a thousand people joined it within days. Im Tirtzu, which has a track record of threatening to sue and shut down anyone who says or writes anything the group doesn’t like, responded by launching a defamation suit against the page’s founders, and asked the court to reward them 2.6 million shekels [around $720,000] in damages.

(snip)

This may have been just a minor victory in legal terms, but it was an important victory for freedom of expression in Israel and for the Israeli left, which has been afraid to raise its head for the past few years. These young people, who did not hold back and fought for their values and worldview, represent the return of the Israeli left, which can once again stand tall and proud. It is no wonder that Roi Yellin, one of the defendants, was also a strategist for the Meretz Party in the last election [January 2013]. Meretz, which branded itself as a left-wing movement and had no qualms about openly using the term “left,” doubled its representation in the Knesset. A clear, principled and straightforward approach proved itself more successful than some opaque one.

(snip)

The struggle against freedom of expression lies at the heart of Im Tirtzu’s activities. This struggle against academic freedom, artistic freedom and human rights groups is an attempt to limit freedom, if not to eliminate it entirely. Laws passed in the spirit of Im Tirtzu, which harm freedom of expression, have already been legislated, and include the Nakba Law and Boycott Law, which were passed by the previous Knesset.”

Continue reading @
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/09/im-tirtzu-israel-supreme-court-rulling-new-israel-fund.html

More on this subject @
http://972mag.com/jerusalem-court-okay-to-call-im-tirzu-a-fascist-group/78591/

34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Return of the Israeli Left (Original Post) Israeli Sep 2013 OP
Thank you for posting this. Raksha Sep 2013 #1
you are welcome ... Israeli Sep 2013 #2
Keep up the good fight. Ken Burch Sep 2013 #3
the Israeli Left has never stopped fighting Ken .... Israeli Sep 2013 #4
Would it be fair to say that Dov Khenin is a communist? oberliner Sep 2013 #5
Would it be fair to ask if you clicked on the link I gave ? Israeli Sep 2013 #6
I did - that's why I ask the question oberliner Sep 2013 #7
whats "unclear" exactly ? Israeli Sep 2013 #8
That may depend on what you mean by "communist" Ken Burch Sep 2013 #9
I find it strange that someone who says ... Israeli Sep 2013 #10
I think the most problematic word here is "communist". delrem Sep 2013 #11
I know its not a " positive word " in America delrem Israeli Sep 2013 #13
I suspect that the poster who persists in asking this Ken Burch Sep 2013 #17
probably ... Israeli Sep 2013 #24
I've now read "The Kibbutz at One Hundred" from your link. delrem Sep 2013 #23
worlds apart delrem Israeli Sep 2013 #25
Still not clear from that link oberliner Sep 2013 #14
It no longer matters. Ken Burch Sep 2013 #20
If you asked him if he was a communist, would he say yes? oberliner Sep 2013 #12
here is a link to his blog oberliner... Israeli Sep 2013 #15
What difference does it make? Ken Burch Sep 2013 #16
Do we have any "committed left-democratic radicals" in our legislature? oberliner Sep 2013 #18
Bernie Saunders, possibly(and my phrase wasn't a euphemism, Ken Burch Sep 2013 #19
The Joe McCarthy thing? oberliner Sep 2013 #21
ok, the direct answer was in the link Ken Burch Sep 2013 #22
No it wasn't oberliner Sep 2013 #26
Link ? Israeli Sep 2013 #27
Was it this interview ? Israeli Sep 2013 #28
No one stonewalled you. Ken Burch Sep 2013 #30
Yes they did oberliner Oct 2013 #31
Look, if the guy had been, at this late date what possible difference would it make? Ken Burch Oct 2013 #32
Why the Israeli "Left" died and is still dead.... shira Sep 2013 #29
If someone self-identifies as a "Zionist lefitst", they support the existence of Israel. Ken Burch Oct 2013 #33
Were Israeli leftists REALLY refusing to defend gays against Haredi? That doesn't sound right. Ken Burch Oct 2013 #34

Raksha

(7,167 posts)
1. Thank you for posting this.
Thu Sep 12, 2013, 02:07 PM
Sep 2013

It's almost unbelievable--to me as an American Jew anyway--that the New Israel Fund had to go to court to fight for the right to call a fascist group like Im Tirtzu what they are, i.e. FASCISTS.

I'm also happy to hear that Meretz has doubled its representation in the Knesset. Things are looking up, but unfortunately not fast enough.

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
2. you are welcome ...
Fri Sep 13, 2013, 05:44 AM
Sep 2013

you should also read this :

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/06/a-new-poll-israelis-veering-left.html

Secondly, the ideological right wing has been in the process of an internal, political split for a decade. Ask yourself, for example, what all these public figures have in common: former Prime Ministers Ariel Sharon and Ehud Olmert, Tzipi Livni, former Knesset members Roni Milo, Michael Eitan, Ronnie Bar-On and Dan Meridor, current Knesset Members Tzachi Hanegbi and Meir Sheetrit. All of them were at one time the aristocracy of the Likud and of its predecessor, the Herut Party, raised on the idea of “a greater Land of Israel”; all of them traded in that ideology for the idea of partition [two state solution]. Several of them even adopted, in one fashion or another, the Arab Peace Initiative as a basis for an arrangement ending the entire Israeli-Arab conflict.

If the prime minister dares adopt the plan proposed by US Secretary of State John Kerry for resumption of negotiations with the Palestinians, “Bogie” will not hesitate to do to Bibi [Benjamin Netanyahu] what Bibi himself did to the late Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin 18 years ago, following the signing of the Oslo Accord (in a procession held in Netanyahu’s presence in the city of Raanana, several weeks before Rabin’s assassination, protesters carried a coffin inscribed with the words, “Rabin is killing Zionism”).


Meretz lost many of us when initially they supported Operation Caste Lead ...some just refused to vote , some moved to Hadash ... thats why the decrease in Meretz seats and the increase in Hadash .

Things are looking up, but unfortunately not fast enough.

Things may be looking up ...but make no mistake ...the Right wing ( i.e. FASCISTS ) are in control and will be until the next elections .






 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
3. Keep up the good fight.
Wed Sep 18, 2013, 07:54 PM
Sep 2013

The Israeli Left may have it harder than the Left in any other supposedly democratic country.

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
4. the Israeli Left has never stopped fighting Ken ....
Sat Sep 21, 2013, 06:04 AM
Sep 2013

although if you paid attention to our Right wing... we have been dead and buried since Oslo and are nothing but an insignificant minority .

According to Shelly Yachimovich, Avoda (Labor) , her party are not Leftists .

So ... that leaves Meretz and Hadash .

Meretz is adapting and changing and growing

see :
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/07/israelis-reviving-left-wing-meretz-party.html

Hadash has Dov Khenin ....and he is someone to look out for

see:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/israeli-elections-2013/whos-who/mk-dov-khenin-can-putt-from-the-political-rough.premium-1.494854

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
7. I did - that's why I ask the question
Sat Sep 21, 2013, 01:59 PM
Sep 2013

It is unclear from reading the information at those links whether or not it would be fair to call him a communist at this point, which is why I respectfully asked for your thoughts on the question.

Do you have any that you would be willing to share?

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
8. whats "unclear" exactly ?
Sat Sep 21, 2013, 02:34 PM
Sep 2013

from the link :

The Hadash party member is an unabashed communist, a far-left radical, an outspoken anti-Zionist – and the best MK in the outgoing Knesset.

He is also a member of the central committee of Maki (the Israeli Communist Party and the largest faction within Hadash)

That you could have found out with a simple Google search oberliner.


 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
9. That may depend on what you mean by "communist"
Sat Sep 21, 2013, 05:54 PM
Sep 2013

and whether you mean it with a large or small "c".

It's doubtful that Knenin, or much of anybody else these days outsideo of the tiny handful of Stalinist theme-park countries, could fairly be called a "large-C Communist&quot that is, an apologist for the horrors of old-type "actually existing socialism" of the Stalin-Brezhnev type.

Being a small-c "communist" does not make a person complicit in the nightmare of the Soviet Union under Stalin or China during the Cultural Revolution.

It's important to be very careful with terminology like that.

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
10. I find it strange that someone who says ...
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 02:14 AM
Sep 2013

......he read the link I gave asks what he did .

From the link :

No, seriously. It’s really tough to find something bad to say about the Hadash party Knesset member, try as you might.

Just ask his detractors. Sure, they might point out that he's a communist, which is true. They could claim he belongs to the radical left, which he does. They could snarl that he's anti-Zionist, and he probably wouldn't deny it.


Khenin is so open about his communistic world view that it’s hard to accuse him of being covert. And he speaks just as much about social and environmental issues as he does about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, if not more, so it is hard to stamp him with the "leftist" label that in Israel dooms you to the fringes of society.

Khenin is already in the fringiest fringe anyway. And he is destined to stay there. And he knows it. And that’s fine. He has learned to make the best of it. In July 2012, Kadima MK (and Hatnuah party candidate) Meir Sheetrit said in a televised interview: "Dov Khenin comes from a small party, but his influence is far greater than all of Kadima."

Kadima, with 28 seats, was the biggest party within the 18th Knesset. Hadash, with three seats, was one of the smallest.


and for you Ken :

So what happened? How did Khenin move back to the fringe? The answer is he never left. It is not easy being a left-wing politician in Israel. It is even harder when you're a communist, a conscientious objector whose son is also a conscientious objector and a proclaimed anti-Zionist. During the current campaign, he was attacked by an unexpected foe, Labor leader Yachimovich, an outspoken Hadash supporter years ago, who lambasted him for being anti-Zionist and allegedly not standing up when the national anthem is sung. When the left attacks you for being too left, you know you're forever banished from the mainstream.


delrem

(9,688 posts)
11. I think the most problematic word here is "communist".
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 07:11 AM
Sep 2013

Different people have different interpretations of what "communist" means, a well-schooled interpretation being a rarity. In terms of common usage the term 'communist' in the "West" is associated with atrocities, each defining a communist regime. It's hardly a positive word.

I can't imagine how anyone would commit to using it for positive purposes, without spending considerable effort reclaiming it first.

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
13. I know its not a " positive word " in America delrem
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 08:10 AM
Sep 2013

but over here its part of our history and heritage .

My grand-parents were communists , hell even Yitzhak Rabin's mother was a communist she was nick named Red Rosa .

I was born and raised under the slogan :

"from each according to his ability; to each according to his needs"

see :
http://www.israelstudies.umd.edu/pdf/The%20Kibbutz%20position%20paper%203.pdf

growing up on the kibbutz in my time ... May the 1st was the biggest holiday of the year and red flags flew everywhere .

I suppose what I am trying to say ...is that the word does not have the same connotations as it does to you ... communism does not frighten me ....facism does .

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
17. I suspect that the poster who persists in asking this
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 04:47 PM
Sep 2013

is just looking for something, anything at all, to discredit the man and his party.

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
24. probably ...
Mon Sep 23, 2013, 04:04 AM
Sep 2013

but in the grand scheme of things does it really matter what he thinks ?

those that vote Hadash are not going to be influenced by anything an American Zionist has to say , not in a political forum such as this and not in reality either .

You have to be an Israeli citizen to vote in our elections Ken .....my greatest fear is that our Right wing will annex what they call Judea and Samaria ....my second greatest fear is that they will try to pass a law where by the Diaspora has the right to participate in our election process .

delrem

(9,688 posts)
23. I've now read "The Kibbutz at One Hundred" from your link.
Mon Sep 23, 2013, 01:05 AM
Sep 2013

Maybe I understand why you linked to the article, but I'm also learning how your own view is strikingly different than that of the author.

My ignorance is such that I have to cast back 40-50 years to lessons learned from Sister Mary Contrary (made up nun name) back in "Catholic school", back to a time when the whole school stopped when (US Pres, Roman Catholic) JFK was shot.

Politics and God were totally mixed together in my Catholic school, the forbidding picture of the Queen was prominent along with the song "God Save the Queen" -- but not quite as prominent as icons to The Virgin Mary and to Jesus on crosses or holding lambs, his heart bleeding. In this environment I learned a freaky picture of an idyllic Israeli Kibbutz, to which we were asked to contribute "to make the deserts bloom". Others more fortunate (older) than us could volunteer to work at a Kibbutz.

You probably don't get how weird this all was! There were two totally different and uncoordinated messages about the same thing!

We were told something of the communist flavor of a Kibbutz, and this too was dressed up with a RC religious blessing, explained to be according as the fulfillment of the Bible. This was at the height of the Cold War, when we were continuously being taught/conditioned to understand "communism" to be among the most evil of ideas in all of history. JFK (Roman Catholic) and the Cuban missile crisis happened at this time, but I can't recall anything that would suggest that the RC teachers were the least bit aware of a possible contradiction, when they asked us to donate to help out Israel's kibbutz'.





Israeli

(4,151 posts)
25. worlds apart delrem
Mon Sep 23, 2013, 06:01 AM
Sep 2013

I was born into and brought up in a complete atheist society .

We were told something of the communist flavor of a Kibbutz

Not all Kibbutzim were the same or are the same even today .

There is even religious Kibbutzim ...

see : http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0012_0_11103.html

ref : Ha-Kibbutz ha-Dati

Different believes , different politics .

I linked to that article because of this :

"from each according to his ability; to each according to his needs"

thats the creed I was brought up in .... now some might call that communism ....and if they want to they are welcome to .

Once upon a time ...they called us ' The Children of the Dream ' .....no longer , the dream has become a nightmare.




 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
14. Still not clear from that link
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 08:32 AM
Sep 2013

The link says his detractors would point out he is a communist (according to the author of the article, not Khenin himself).

Maybe there isn't a simple yes or no answer, and that's fine. I am just trying to understand if the term communist is a fair and reasonable one to use to describe him. Does he currently (not in the past, but rather today) embrace that political philosophy?

It's a reasonable question to ask - and one asked without malice - as I said, it is just for information.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
20. It no longer matters.
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 05:25 PM
Sep 2013

It would only be important if it were still possible to replicate the Warsaw Pact-since it isn't, communism is now simply another political and economic philosophy, no longer any more intrinsically evil than the rest.

You are an American, as am I...you know that labelling someone with "the c word" automatically discredits that person in the eyes of any American audience-so why even go there?

Do you want a reason to automatically dismiss the man?

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
12. If you asked him if he was a communist, would he say yes?
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 07:23 AM
Sep 2013

I am just wondering if this is a label that he would currently embrace.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
16. What difference does it make?
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 04:45 PM
Sep 2013

It goes without saying that he isn't an apologist for Stalinism. And it's not possible to replicate the Soviet Union or China under Mao, so it wouldn't matter anyway.

The man is a committed left-democratic radical...whether or not the "c word" or the "C word" can be used to describe him is a pointless question.

It's as if you're trying to ask "is he an apologist for insane brutality?" I hope that isn't your intent, and, since Hadash is not likely ever to lead an Israeli government, it's hard to understand why you can't let this go.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
18. Do we have any "committed left-democratic radicals" in our legislature?
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 05:13 PM
Sep 2013

Can you think of any in Congress who would fit that description?

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
19. Bernie Saunders, possibly(and my phrase wasn't a euphemism,
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 05:23 PM
Sep 2013

so don't use it that way-there is no longer any position on the Left that is equivalent of what "Communist" meant in 1947). Dennis, when he was there. Barbara Lee. There are others.

Why are you so fixated on "the c word", anyway"?

Stalinism is extinct. So is Maoism. If the man is a communist, it would be of the "small-c" variety-that is, supporting common ownership of the means of production-something that has nothing in common with the Soviet/Chinese nightmare states, whose tyrannies were caused by the lack of a democratic leadership structure, not the way the economy was run.

Give the Joe McCarthy thing a rest already.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
21. The Joe McCarthy thing?
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 07:07 PM
Sep 2013

You are imagining and projecting opinions and arguments that do not exist.

I am not "fixated on the c word". I asked a simple question - if I had received a simple answer, that would have been the end of it. The fixation appears to be coming from other quarters.

Incidentally, there is a Communist party in the US, but, clearly, it is looked at by some much more negatively than similar parties elsewhere around the world (i.e. Israel).

I wish we had as robust a left-wing in our legislature as Israel does. It's sad that our right wing mirrors Israel's but our left is much less radical (to use your term).

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
22. ok, the direct answer was in the link
Sun Sep 22, 2013, 09:29 PM
Sep 2013

the man is the secretary of the Israeli Communist Party...so, in that sense, he is a "communist". Most likely, he simply believes in the traditional ideal of common ownership of the means of production...an ideal, whether it is workable or not, that is not in and of itself to blame for anything.

It's unlikely, however, that he's an old-school Stalinist(which is what most Americans mean when they ask if somebody is a "communist&quot . That particular school of thought really doesn't exist anymore.

And you're right, the Communist Party, U.S.A, still exists...but it is too pathetic and irrelevant to matter in an discussion, because its tiny handful of members include a number of apologists for "Uncle Joe".

Having heard that answer, are you as yet satisfied?

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
26. No it wasn't
Mon Sep 23, 2013, 11:37 AM
Sep 2013

And no he isn't. Did you not read all the information at the link?

Also, I don't know anyone who would equate "old-school Stalinist" with communist. Certainly not on this board.

In any case, I've come across an interview with him where he provides an answer to that question.

Here is an excerpt from his remarks on the subject:

Well, for me communism is the idea that we live in a very, very unjust world and that we should very radically change it. Of course, there was a very big attempt to change the world in the 20th century, an attempt that really failed very miserably. And a lot of people learned from this failure that changing the world is not possible. I do not agree with that idea. I do believe that changing the world is very needed, today no less than yesterday, even more than yesterday. We live in a world with a very big crisis -- social, economic and environmental. And therefore this world needs very radical, revolutionary change.

<end>

I guess the good side of being stonewalled and responded to snarkily here is that it forces me to go the extra mile to do the necessary research to get the information I am seeking. I would have thought someone who claims to be an Israeli supporter of Hadash would have simply provided me with the information that I politely requested, but there we are.

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
27. Link ?
Mon Sep 23, 2013, 02:21 PM
Sep 2013

Is there not a rule that when you quote someone you should supply a link ?

I would like to read the full interview if you dont mind oberliner.

BTW ..I vote Meretz not Hadash , this thread is about the Israeli Left is it not ?

Who are the Israeli Left oberliner ?

I guess the good side of being stonewalled and responded to snarkily here is that it forces me to go the extra mile to do the necessary research to get the information I am seeking

Good... are you learning ?

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
28. Was it this interview ?
Tue Sep 24, 2013, 06:06 AM
Sep 2013
A just solution is a price worth paying for peace: interview with Israeli Knesset member Dov Khenin

Dov Khenin is a member of the Israeli parliament (the Knesset) representing Hadash, the alliance which is led by the Communist Party of Israel. In November 2008, Khenin stood as mayoral candidate for Israel's biggest city Tel Aviv, where he received over 34% of the votes. In part two of this interview, Dov Khenin talks to the editors of 21st Century Socialism about the issues to be overcome in a negotiated Middle East settlement, and the need for socialism.

Part one of the interview can be read here @

http://21stcenturysocialism.com/article/ending_the_vicious_circle_of_hate_and_blood_an_interview_with_israeli_knesset_member_dov_khenin_01827.html

and here is the part of the quote that you conveniently missed from part 2 of the interview @:

http://21stcenturysocialism.com/article/a_just_solution_is_a_price_worth_paying_for_peace_interview_with_israeli_knesset_member_dov_khenin_01830.html

However, we should learn from the history of the 20th Century; we should not repeat the mistakes, both the political mistakes and the theoretical mistakes of 20th Century socialism. We should realise that socialism is not possible without democracy. Democracy is part and parcel of what is socialism about. Actually, socialism is about more democracy- it is about more democracy in economy and social issues, and also it is about more democracy in politics, with the aim of taking politics from the hold of big capital.

There are a lot of lessons to be learned from the failure of 20th Century socialism, but the lesson is not that change is impossible.



 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
30. No one stonewalled you.
Mon Sep 30, 2013, 10:10 PM
Sep 2013

and the link showed(at least I thought it showed)the man's party affiliation.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
31. Yes they did
Tue Oct 1, 2013, 07:23 AM
Oct 2013

Stonewalling: delay or block (a request, process, or person) by refusing to answer questions or by giving evasive replies, esp. in politics.

My question: Would it be fair to say that Dov Khenin is a communist?

The response: Would it be fair to ask if you clicked on the link I gave ?

Not stonewalling would have been: Yes, that would be fair or The information at the link clearly indicates that (which it actually doesn't, but at least that would have been a direct answer).

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
32. Look, if the guy had been, at this late date what possible difference would it make?
Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:52 PM
Oct 2013

Is there any HONORABLE reason for anyone on an American talk board to belabor the point?

These days, communism is simply another school of thought, and not a particularly popular one.

And someone posted a quote FROM the link explaining the man's political affiliation. You were given the answer when that was posted.

Why can't you just accept that, in the post-1989 world, there's simply no reason to ask if someone is a "communist" or not.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
29. Why the Israeli "Left" died and is still dead....
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 03:55 PM
Sep 2013

The writer Tzvia Greenfeld is an Israeli politician and a former member of the Knesset for Meretz.

http://zionism-israel.com/israel_news/2006/12/fault-of-left.html

Since the disappointment with Stalin and the decolonization period of the 1960s, expecially in France, the left began to deal obsessively with justification of third world countries who are supposedly in rebellion against modern-western hegemony, and lost all interest in other poor people and people who lack rights anywhere else in the world.

How typical it is of leftists like Yitzhak Laor or Meron Benvenisti to ignore the rights of the homo-lesbian minority (a typical western minority of course) in the name of the supposedly higher priority needs of the ultraorthox "Haredi" Jews or the Palestinians. How characteristic of the "Gallery" supplement of "Ha'aretz" newspaper to glory in radical leftist theoretical critique, and in precisely the same pages, to advertise reports that unabashedly nurture preoccupation with dizzying luxury products of the upper one thousandth income bracket.

This process of focusing on non-modern minorities sucked in most of the Israeli left, that began to become confused between our essential, human and moral duty to end the occupation immediately, and to stop preventing the Palestinians from realizing their rights to an independent and prosperous life, and their immediate and almost unlimited advocacy and political and emotional empathy for all the violent doings of the Palestinians. True, the Palestinians are under occupation, and until the problem of the occupation is solved, we cannot expect them to stop hurding us. And we had better understand that basic principle before our supposedly mis-aimed shells exterminate the children of Gaza, and their Qassam rockets and cruel terror attacks kill our children. But too many of the left have a childish need to portray the oppressed Palestinian side as absolutely perfect, and the oppressing Israeli side as the incarnation of evil. This has caused the left to fail to understand the tremendous complexity of the historical situation in which Israel finds itself today. The left has therefore completely lost the confidence of the broad masses of the Israeli public.

It is not easy today to find Zionist leftists who really believe that the right of the Jews to their own country, here in the land of their forefathers, is completely equal to the right of the Palestinians. The Israeli left has become a factor that explicitly or implicitly no longer believes in the right of the Jewish state to exist. True, as opposed to the feverish approach that characterizes the nationalist right, there is no longer a need to set up the state. But that doesn't mean that it is no longer necessary to defend its legitimacy, and too many of today's Israeli left doubt the fundamental justice of the existence of the Jewish state.
 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
33. If someone self-identifies as a "Zionist lefitst", they support the existence of Israel.
Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:04 PM
Oct 2013

Those who self-identify as Jewish anti-Zionists, non-Zionists or post-Zionists don't want to deprive Jewish people of a homeland...they just want to end the supremacist aspect of the current state. That may or may not work, but it doesn't equate to wanting Jews to be driven away or otherwise harmed. Your definition(and the article's definition)of what a person has to prove to establish legitimacy is far too rigid.

Left Zionists AND "post-Zionists" believe, as the first sentence of that last paragraph calls on them to believe, that the Jewish and Palestinian peoples DO have equal rights to the land. They just reject the idea that the community the author champions from the center-right must be dominant, must have all power OVER Palestinians, even under a two-state settlement. What is wrong with that?
Doesn't any real hope of peace depend on both states relating to each other as equals, with neither holding the power of life and death over the other?

Are you now arguing that someone has to defend the WEST BANK SETTLEMENTS to prove that they support "the right of the Jews to their own country, in the land of their forefathers"?

And is a leftist obligated to accept the myth of intrinsic Western moral superiority, the right of Europe and North America to shake their fingers at the world like an old-time schoolmarm chastising a kid for talking in class, to prove that they aren't driven, whether they are Jewish OR gentile, by malice towards Jews? How does encouraging Western moral arrogance, something that has never been a force for good anywhere in the non-Western world, help anything at all? How does it not simply degenerate into an imperialist mindset?

The truth is, good and evil, freedom and repression can be found in ALL parts of the world. And there's no part of the world that can possibly be made to change by lecturing OR military intervention from another part.

The answer is humility and openness, dialogue and the reduction of tensions...not endless threats and demands.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
34. Were Israeli leftists REALLY refusing to defend gays against Haredi? That doesn't sound right.
Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:53 PM
Oct 2013

As for the rest of the critique-screed, it sounds kind of schizoid...bashing the left from the left AND the right.

And really, does it matter whether people make a show of being "pro-Israel" anymore? IT's not like the place is in any danger of being ended. They totally have the upper hand militarily, the Palestinian leadership can't get it together...really, what's the threat?

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