Israel warns John Kerry over Iranian nuclear deal

[bemildred]

The Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, has launched a furious tirade against a possible deal struck between the international community and Iran over its nuclear programme, warning that it was "the deal of the century" for the Islamic republic, and that Israel would not be bound by it.

At a meeting with John Kerry at Ben Gurion airport shortly before the US secretary of state took off for talks in Geneva, Netanyahu said: "I understand that the Iranians are walking around very satisfied in Geneva, as well they should be, because they got everything, and paid nothing, they wanted. They wanted relief from sanctions after years of a gruelling sanctions regime. They got that. They are paying nothing because they are not reducing in any way their nuclear enrichment capability.

"So Iran got the deal of the century and the international community got a bad deal. This is a very bad deal. Israel utterly rejects it and what I am saying is shared by many, many in the region whether or not they express it publicly."

In an indication that Israel has not ruled out a military attack on Iran's nuclear facilities, Netanyahu added: "Israel is not obliged by this agreement and Israel will do everything it needs to defend itself, to defend the security of its people."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/08/israel-john-kerry-iranian-nuclear-deal

[sabbat hunter]

1. Bibi

shut the hell up!

[bravenak]

2. I swear this man scares the hell out of me.

Why is he doing this?

[bemildred]

3. He's a mediocre fool.

Reminds me of Bush the Lesser a lot, except I don't think he's a drunk, and he's not as "intellectually challenged" as Bush is. But he is utterly tone deaf when it comes to politics, crude, and a bully.

It used to be the case that pissing off Uncle Sugar was the third rail of Israeli politics. Bibi seems to have chucked that over the side out of his affection for the settlements. In the meantime our homegrown war lovers are in retreat here and abroad, and this is the exactly wrong time for Numbnuts to piss off Israel's main pillar of support internationally.

[bravenak]

22. I'm in complete agreement.

I'm pleased that we are making an effort at diplomacy rather than relying on Bibi to tell us who to bomb next. I really don't trust that man.

[bemildred]

25. He does not have our best interests at heart.

He's been disastrous for his own country too, and he better hope we do "work something out".

[shira]

4. Saudi Arabia investing in nuclear deal with Pakistan

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia, Nov. 7 (UPI) -- Saudi Arabia has been investing in Pakistani nuclear weapons projects, believing it could get such weapons at will, sources told the BBC.

While framed in the context of countering Iran's nuclear program, the BBC reported Wednesday it now was possible that Saudi Arabia could have the capability to deploy a nuclear device more quickly than Iran.

The BBC said a senior NATO official earlier this year saw intelligence reports that nuclear weapons made in Pakistan for Saudi Arabia were ready for delivery.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2013/11/07/Report-Saudi-Arabia-investing-in-nuclear-deal-with-Pakistan/UPI-46741383831143/

Bibi's right about his neighbors not particularly liking the lifting of sanctions vs. Iran.

The region's going nuclear to counter Iran.

[bemildred]

5. The region is going nuclear because they know they are on their own,

and non-proliferation has proved to be a sham.

[shira]

11. Agreed. n/t

[azurnoir]

6. one would think Bibi would welcome this

a change in Iran and perhaps a lessening of tensions but it certainly seems otherwise, will Israel actually attack Iran at this juncture I have my doubts, Bibi is making belligerent noise-again

[shira]

7. What's there to welcome? Saudi Arabia is going nuclear to counter this BS.

So are other neighboring Arab regimes, as fast as possible now that Iran has a green light to proceed.

[azurnoir]

8. right because Iran and Pakistan are the only ones in the region allowed to have nukes

I think it could be a bit more um complicated than that but whatever 3 chord song suits you

[azurnoir]

13. oh and your claim that Iran has been given a "green light to proceed" (with nukes)

US Secretary of State John Kerry has stressed no agreement has yet been reached on Iran's nuclear programme and "important gaps" have to be closed.

He joined the UK, French and German foreign ministers for unscheduled talks with Iranian representatives in Geneva.

Russia's Sergei Lavrov had not been scheduled to attend but sources say he will travel to Geneva on Saturday.

Under a deal being floated, Iran could freeze expansion of its nuclear activity for limited sanctions relief.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-2487046

[shira]

15. A green light is how Israel, Saudi Arabia & other upcoming nuclear mideast nations see it.

Maybe you see all these budding nuclear powers in the mideast as a complete coincidence, who knows.

[azurnoir]

17. No they are not a co-incidence but I think that has already been covered

and as the US has not green light Iran I really don't think that's the issue, but I do understand why you'd wish to put the blame on the US

[shira]

19. Both the US and EU are behind this. n/t

[azurnoir]

20. Behind what exactly nothing has actually happened yet

so it is rather difficult to place the blame on the US and the EU maybe you just don't understand that SA is a sovereign nation and there fore free to do as it pleases, more over SA never actually signed the NPT

[cqo_000]

24. Saudi Arabia doesn't have the ability to go nuclear

The Center for a New American Security, a Washington-based defense research institute, released a report in February that cast doubts on Saudi Arabia’s ability to develop a nuclear weapons program. The kingdom faces political obstacles, such as not wanting to “risk a strategic rupture with the United States,” as well as logistical issues, according to the center’s report, “Atomic Kingdom: If Iran builds the bomb, will Saudi Arabia be next?”

“The kingdom has no nuclear research reactors or nuclear power facilities, no known reprocessing capability and no known uranium conversion, enrichment or fuel fabrication facilities,” the Center for a New American Security assessment stated.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2013/11/08/2786595/experts-benefits-outweigh-risks.html#storylink=topnext

[shira]

27. Read up on current events. Saudi Arabia will buy nukes from Pakistan. n/t

[cqo_000]

29. That is "speculative, mischievous and baseless" according to Pakistan

Newsnight contacted both the Pakistani and Saudi governments. The Pakistan Foreign Ministry has described our story as "speculative, mischievous and baseless".

It adds: "Pakistan is a responsible nuclear weapon state with robust command and control structures and comprehensive export controls."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24823846

[bemildred]

9. Well, at least we won't have to hear that America does whatever Israel says any more.

Iran is modernizing and independent and threatens Israeli dominance in the region. Same goes fo the Sauds. Uncle Sugar has been fending that off for them for three decades now, but we are leaving, just like we left Vietnam 40 years ago, and for much the same reasons.

[shira]

10. True....so much for the all-powerful Israel Lobby ordering the US on its policy WRT Iran. n/t

[azurnoir]

12. true enough according to what I've read else where

as soon as Israel gets it NG up and running the US will no longer have any influence there either

eta to add link: http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2013/11/07/with-giant-gas-find-israel-is-poised-for-new-era/

[shira]

14. Do you think the US wants to stop foreign aid, leave the mideast altogether? n/t

[azurnoir]

16. Really that's not relevent

it was lifted from your OP and it was you who bolded this passage

it will also reduce Israel’s dependence on the US and limit US ability to pressure Jerusalem on the peace process

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113450782

so honestly one might ask you is in your opinion Israel is intending on refusing US aid not the other way around

[shira]

18. I don't know what Israel is intending to do. I think with this NG they should stop....

...receiving funds from the US.

[azurnoir]

21. By who's will theirs or ours? n/t

[shira]

28. Israel should take the initiative. Refuse the $3b per year. Make their own military stuff. n/t

[shaayecanaan]

31. Some perspective...

the largest gas field in Iran/Qatar is seventy times as large as the Tamar and Leviathan gas fields combined:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pars/North_Dome

The Bank of Israel estimates that Tamar will deliver about $1 billion USD to Israel's GDP in 2013, although that will taper off over time as the construction/investment phase passes.

Surprisingly, in terms of revenues to the state, the government will actually take about 60% once all taxes are taken into account. Still, it will be less than a billion dollars a year. Not enough to wean Israel off Uncle Sugar's $3 billion a year.

[shira]

32. Financial Times reports $60B over next 2 decades

Last edited Sun Nov 10, 2013, 11:09 AM - Edit history (1)

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/82e01bda-4518-11e3-b98b-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2kFaXlKIP

And then there's Israel's shale oil reserves...
http://world.time.com/2013/04/30/can-israel-become-as-oil-rich-as-saudi-arabia/

Israel will be far more reliable as a gas/oil exporter for Europe and Asia than its neighbors.

But even w/o the extra oil/gas revenues, I'd like to see Israel support herself, stop taking US aid, and work more with China, India, etc.

[shaayecanaan]

34. The Bank of Israel says $39 billion over the next 25 years...

either way, its handy money but hardly the stuff of being an "energy superpower".

And 100,000 barrels of oil a day is not even a pebble on the beach, even if it is realised.

[bemildred]

26. Hardly. This is being forced by politics at home.

People are sick of war and the poverty, corruption and misrule that it brings with it.

And both the UK and France told us to take a walk when we suggested we should "save" Syria.

And Snowden.

[cqo_000]

23. Experts: Benefits outweigh risks in emerging Iran nuclear deal

By Hannah Allam and Jonathan S. Landay — McClatchy Washington Bureau


WASHINGTON — An emerging deal that would curtail Iran’s nuclear program and expand inspections in exchange for relief from some economic sanctions will upset U.S. allies Israel and Saudi Arabia but is likely to lessen the chance of a conflict or a nuclear arms race in the Middle East, foreign policy analysts said Friday.

Nonproliferation experts who monitor Iran’s nuclear program said they see the deal generating mostly positive results for U.S. interests in the region. Under the deal, they said, Western powers would get unprecedented access to Tehran’s program, regional foes of Iran’s would be less likely to pursue their own nuclear programs, and the threat of an Israeli – or U.S. – military strike on Iranian nuclear facilities that could trigger a war would dissipate.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2013/11/08/2786595/experts-benefits-outweigh-risks.html#storylink=topnext

[shaayecanaan]

30. The French managed to fuck it up...

"As I speak to you, I cannot say there is any certainty that we can conclude," Fabius told France Inter radio, saying Paris could not accept a "fool's game".

His pointed remarks hinted at a rift within the Western camp. A Western diplomat close to the negotiations said the French were trying to upstage the other powers.

"The Americans, the EU and the Iranians have been working intensively together for months on this proposal, and this is nothing more than an attempt by Fabius to insert himself into relevance late in the negotiations," the diplomat told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/09/us-iran-nuclear-idUSBRE9A804X20131109

Nothing more annoying that a Frenchman suffering from relevance deprivation syndrome. You can bet your bottom dollar that if the talks fail and things get military then the French will be nowhere to be seen.

I hope that someone kicks his arse over the next ten days and that thereafter we can get back to business.

[bemildred]

33. +1. He needs to be flogged in public (figuratively speaking) in the press. nt

[shira]

35. Apparently there's more to that French decision than meets the eye....

‘Israel will attack Iran if you sign the deal, French MP told Fabius’
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-will-attack-if-you-sign-the-deal-french-mp-told-fabius/

[shaayecanaan]

36. Golly gee, those Jews can sure pull some levers can't they?

I think thats absolute bullshit myself. Ironic that you would think otherwise, though.
However misguided the French are I doubt that they would have been cowed by Netanyahu's umpteenth empty threat of military action.