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Sun Nov 10, 2013, 07:43 PM

 

Cabinet OK's Razing Bedouin Towns To Build Jewish Settlement In Their Place

After being expelled and relocated in the 1950s, the residents of Umm al-Hiran are about to lose their homes once again – this time to make way for a Jewish national-religious settlement.

The Israeli government on Sunday made one of its most outrageous decisions in recent years (and there is no shortage of those, as you know). The cabinet held a special session in Sde Boker – the Kibbutz in which David Ben-Gurion is buried – to approve plans to build a new Jewish town (along with several others – all for Jews) in the northeast region of the Negev desert.

The symbolism of meeting at Sde Boker is clear: Ben-Gurion believed that the Negev is Zionism’s final frontier, and all Jewish pioneering effort should take place there.

There is no better example of how Zionism as a state ideology represents, in practice, the ongoing dispossession of Palestinians. Two Bedouin-Palestinian villages, Umm al-Hiran and Atir (where members of the Al-Qia’an tribe live), are the location where the kibbutz is planned.

Last year, Lia Tarachansky of the Real News produced a comprehensive video report about Umm al-Hiran and the Israeli government’s plans for it:



MORE...

http://972mag.com/government-to-confirm-destruction-of-bedouin-village-jewish-town-will-be-built-on-site/81638/

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Reply Cabinet OK's Razing Bedouin Towns To Build Jewish Settlement In Their Place (Original post)
Purveyor Nov 2013 OP
R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2013 #1
oberliner Nov 2013 #2
Scootaloo Nov 2013 #5
delrem Nov 2013 #6
bravenak Nov 2013 #3
delrem Nov 2013 #7
pelsar Nov 2013 #14
bravenak Nov 2013 #26
pelsar Nov 2013 #10
bravenak Nov 2013 #11
pelsar Nov 2013 #12
delrem Nov 2013 #13
pelsar Nov 2013 #15
delrem Nov 2013 #16
pelsar Nov 2013 #18
delrem Nov 2013 #20
pelsar Nov 2013 #21
delrem Nov 2013 #22
pelsar Nov 2013 #23
delrem Nov 2013 #24
pelsar Nov 2013 #27
delrem Nov 2013 #31
pelsar Nov 2013 #32
delrem Nov 2013 #33
pelsar Nov 2013 #34
delrem Nov 2013 #35
pelsar Nov 2013 #36
delrem Nov 2013 #37
pelsar Nov 2013 #43
delrem Nov 2013 #50
pelsar Nov 2013 #52
delrem Nov 2013 #53
pelsar Nov 2013 #61
delrem Nov 2013 #62
pelsar Nov 2013 #64
delrem Nov 2013 #65
pelsar Nov 2013 #66
delrem Nov 2013 #67
Violet_Crumble Nov 2013 #17
pelsar Nov 2013 #19
bravenak Nov 2013 #25
pelsar Nov 2013 #28
azurnoir Nov 2013 #29
pelsar Nov 2013 #30
azurnoir Nov 2013 #38
pelsar Nov 2013 #39
azurnoir Nov 2013 #40
pelsar Nov 2013 #42
azurnoir Nov 2013 #44
pelsar Nov 2013 #45
azurnoir Nov 2013 #46
pelsar Nov 2013 #47
azurnoir Nov 2013 #49
delrem Nov 2013 #51
pelsar Nov 2013 #55
delrem Nov 2013 #57
pelsar Nov 2013 #59
pelsar Nov 2013 #54
azurnoir Nov 2013 #56
pelsar Nov 2013 #58
azurnoir Nov 2013 #60
pelsar Nov 2013 #63
azurnoir Nov 2013 #68
pelsar Nov 2013 #69
azurnoir Nov 2013 #70
pelsar Nov 2013 #71
Mosby Nov 2013 #48
CFLDem Nov 2013 #4
Scootaloo Nov 2013 #8
shaayecanaan Nov 2013 #9
delrem Nov 2013 #41

Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2013, 08:41 PM

1. The specter of apartheid...from the article

 

Several dozen protesters gathered outside the kibbutz to protest the cabinet decision and displacement of the Bedouin villagers, who are all citizens of the State of Israel. Four were taken away by police, including former MK Taleb el-Sana.

---

Despite the fact that it was the state who told the Al-Qia’an tribe where to move, the new villages were never made part of a zoning plan, and their residents still lack basic infrastructure like water and electricity. The government is finally deciding to build a proper settlement there – but not for the Palestinian Bedouin (who are citizens of Israel, some of whom even served in the IDF).

In remarks at the start of the cabinet meeting, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke about the new Jewish towns but did not mention the Bedouin who will be displaced to make room for them. The plan, he said, will “expedite the development of the entire Negev, which Israel’s first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, very much wanted to do.”

---

The Bedouin residents of Umm al-Hiran will be pushed to the township of Hura, one of the poorest cities in the country, according to the socio-economic index of towns and municipalities. I suppose the government believes that things are so bad in Hura that its residents won’t mind another 500 refugees.



Apartheid, pure and simple.

One wonders how this latest insult to Palestinians will be spun like a top in order to justify erasing their presence from Umm al-Hiran.


But ya know, somebody else claims to have lived there two-thousand years ago so its only fair.

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2013, 09:11 PM

2. Not an Israeli settlement, a Jewish settlement

 

Is that correct?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 10, 2013, 11:43 PM

5. That's what the article says

 

And the Bedouin are, themselves, Israelis.

Even if it's inaccurate - and I think we all know that's probably not the case - it's still an utterly reprehensible move. Expelling a community, in order to put a preferred community on the same site? What the fuck.

You want to come up with a defense for it, Oberliner? I'm honestly curious to see where you'll go. SinceIsrel's building a town in the same spot, the whole "preserving the land" argument is gone, so what's that leave?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 10, 2013, 11:43 PM

6. Seems to be so.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4287018,00.html

There's got to be something wrong with the entire project and of the planning that the project is part, don't you think?
Doesn't there have to be a reassessment?

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2013, 09:42 PM

3. So Jews only?

 

Right? How is this not apartheid?

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Response to bravenak (Reply #3)

Sun Nov 10, 2013, 11:49 PM

7. It's the embodiment of Jewish nationalism in Israel, a Jewish state.

The 'legality' of it is built into the deep structure of Israel's founding law -- and to the Zionist mind (and in Israel's law) to work in any way to counter that law is to work for the destruction of Israel. That's the bottom line.

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Response to delrem (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:09 AM

14. it still remains illegal

you can play all kinds of games with your "zionism = racism" but what you can't get around (unless you want to make up it) is that its illegal in israel ......

and thats the bottom line

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Response to delrem (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:53 AM

26. I will never be able to understand the strangeness of Israeli law.

 

I find it all very strange indeed.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 01:13 AM

10. jewish only towns are illegal

its just the law

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Response to pelsar (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 01:37 AM

11. I was wondering if they really meant to say Jews only.

 

That doesn't make sense to me. Sounds bad. Why tear down people's homes anyway? What's up with that?

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Response to bravenak (Reply #11)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:05 AM

12. Natanyahu meant it...

thats his world view, but he doesn't make the laws, and the law is clear.

The bedouin in many places are basically living on state land, with no sewer, no roads, no schools, no lighting, no running water (dogs that roam freely). There are a few "Bedoiuin towns but not enough, plus they have developed a "tradition" of just making their home wherever they feel like it (they are no longer nomads), which no jew, druze, christian,is allowed to do....

so the state is exercising its rights, to develop standard housing on state land. Given the political pressure on the State, they wont be "homeless" but will have options as has happened in the past.

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Response to pelsar (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:07 AM

13. "dogs that roam freely". uh huh. That's gotta be it, pelsar.

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Response to delrem (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:12 AM

15. you don't like factual descriptions?

its just something that is very noticable when one enters them.....hence i mentioned it. I gather you don't like the description, so perhaps its time you came to over here and see for yourself?

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Response to pelsar (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:16 AM

16. Well, you "enters them" (sic) as an IDF guy bent on enforcing the dispossession of the Bedouin,

so that's not saying much for your veridicality.
You don't like dogs, pelsar? Or is it just Bedouin?

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Response to delrem (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:31 AM

18. this should be good

so please explain how your inferring that I been inside bedouin settlements:

bent on enforcing dispossession
i don't like dogs
i don't like bediouin


please be precise in your explanations and how you've come across this conclusion, i'm sure this will be a fascinating look at how you've come to various beliefs:

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Response to pelsar (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:33 AM

20. I don't think you're bent on enforcing dispassion, pelsar. nt

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Response to delrem (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:35 AM

21. thats it?...running away?

come on....lets see some of that "internet courage of yours"....you've made an accusation, now try to back it up
(you'll note the word was corrected)

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Response to pelsar (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:37 AM

22. i don't know wtf you're going on about, pelsar.

Do you have a problem with evicting Bedouin communities (twice) to make room for Jews?
Or do you just have a problem with how the Bedouin allow their dogs to roam free?

It's your point to make, pelsar. not mine.

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Response to delrem (Reply #22)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:40 AM

23. you asked me

if i don't like Bedouin
or if I don't like dogs....

and that i "enters them" (sic) as an IDF guy bent on enforcing the dispossession of the Bedouin,

and why you assume i have disposed Bedouiin?

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Response to pelsar (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:42 AM

24. Maybe, just maybe, you can go back to your original statement

which "justifies" the eviction of the Bedouin in favor of new purely-Jewish communities, using phrases that refer to dogs.

hmmm?

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Response to delrem (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:54 AM

27. the racists thing again

so explaining the law and describing the environment makes me a racist (i assume that is what your trying to say)

gosh i'm sorry i didn't know certain word combinations and facts are "forbidden"....i'll have to find that software that warns me about it so that next time i'll know how your PC mind works..and will ignore it.
_____

fact: the bedouin villages are in fact illegal and israeli laws forbid discrimination and lots of dogs run around freely in the bedouin villages..but just for fun so you can really get in to the racist thing:

did you know:
a lot of their homes have satellite dishes on their tin roofs
some have brand new pickup trucks as well
they don't pay any city taxes (no city)
they're kids work when they're very young and they have lots of kids
they have high unemployment (must be because they're all lazy or just busy making kids)
smuggling from egypt is part of the livelihood of many

would you like some more?...I'm really into the racist thing (must be because I'm a zionist, don't u agree?)

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Response to pelsar (Reply #27)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 06:29 AM

31. That's quite a speech, pelsar! nt

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Response to delrem (Reply #31)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 07:59 AM

32. no problem..but next time if you want to call me a racist...

just do so...i don't speak "PC" and don't know the proper word combinations: perhaps you can help me out with the following,which are non racist and which are?

arabs usually don't have dogs as pets
jewish israelis have more "gardens" than arab israelis
many jews have dogs a pets
many christians have gold fish, but many times flush them down the toilet when they die
Some Bedoiun have camels
Druze and jews have no camels and camels can be dangerous on Roads
Cats run around freely in jewish communities but they tie up their dogs, Bedouin communities don't tie up the cats nor the dogs
Haridim don't have any pets, but lots of children


will you grade them for me 1 -10 on the level on racist statements? i assume you do want me to learn to speak your PC language correct?

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Response to pelsar (Reply #32)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 09:01 AM

33. You're talking to demons in your own head, pelsar.

You should get out more - and try to quit accusing people of all kinds of crimes... shee, talk about sensitive about yourself, insensitive about others.

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Response to delrem (Reply #33)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 09:36 AM

34. au contrair...wasnt it you who was accusing me of racism?

or was that not your point? You were not clear, so i had to guess ...perhaps you would like to clarify what your actually trying to say in stead of talking in circles.

just "spit it out"

and to clarify the matter..i definitely do NOT believe in PC talk and this ultra sensitivity to 'others" (it tends to make communication about facts and the real environment rather difficult)

and in case you missed it, I'm making fun of the way you interpret putting the words dogs and Bediouin in the same paragraph to mean something "sinister"

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Response to pelsar (Reply #34)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 10:04 AM

35. I'm sure the demons in your own head help you "guess", pelsar. Why would I debate with that? cya

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Response to delrem (Reply #35)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 12:04 PM

36. is "demons"

some kind of code to mean something else?

you really should lay off the PC talk and just say whats on your mind, i think when you comments were "fuk u", you were at least being honest and straight forward, now you just being confusing


Do what you want, feel free, just don't expect me not to reply to posts that are not factual

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Response to pelsar (Reply #36)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 12:12 PM

37. Why would you think it's "code", pelsar?

My statements are straightforward. It's you who listen to the demons in your own head explain how to "interpret" them, then make accusations on that basis.

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Response to delrem (Reply #37)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 03:24 PM

43. because you started out with

commenting that my description of the Bedouin villages that have dogs run around is some kind of racist statement...or so i understood (you don't like stating things very clearly)

so since i don't have a demons in my head, i figured it was another one of your accusations,..since i have no idea what that means.

perhaps you would like to write it clearly what these demons are, as i have no idea how you interpret things, call it accepting multiculturalism...

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Response to pelsar (Reply #43)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 10:33 PM

50. Do you know what a "mind-loop" is, pelsar?

I didn't think so.

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Response to delrem (Reply #50)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 01:57 AM

52. haven't you figured it out yet?

I don't speak "progressive" or canadian" or buzz words or PC or whatever language your writing. What is clear and it becomes clearer more an more are two strong traits in your writing:

no patience/ tolerrence for those who either disagree with your or don't comprehend your point of view. This colonialisitic trait shows up more and more. What it does not show is any greater intelligence or knowledge.

A disdain for others..those not like you. This trait, this "looking down" is rather ironic since you write about places you've never been, you write about thinks you have little experience in and apparently refuse to accept information from those that your disdain. What we call in english a very narrow and bigoted mind.

at any rate, you've improved and one should note that you've stopped calling me names directly...i'm assuming one of your peers explained you to about anger management or they took you outside to see the real world...., so congrats on that.

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Response to pelsar (Reply #52)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 03:11 AM

53. Keep going, pelsar. You're on a roll - a loopy roll, but you're on your own.

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Response to delrem (Reply #53)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 01:26 PM

61. what happen to ignore?

didn't you claim we're all on ignore?...even that you can't even do?

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Response to pelsar (Reply #61)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:04 AM

62. if you're upset that I reply, why do you address me in posts, pelsar?

Is some demon forcing you to post your "interpretations"?

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Response to delrem (Reply #62)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:10 AM

64. the psychology.

that you believe that everyone all over the world sees things as you do, and if they don't they are not worthy of you (excuse the pop psychology) is clear.

your the one who gets upset and post emotionally laden posts, short, but emotional. In my world, your little postings are amusing at best. Your nothing more than an opening for me to see how others think, a cultural experiment of 'the other." A new character to "play with."

i like your replys.....its a game, to see what kind of post you'll be writing:
1) the nonsensical dismissive post
2) the reply post
3) the pseudo intellectual post based on zionism = racism

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Response to pelsar (Reply #64)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:38 AM

65. Thank you for insight into your demons' voice.

I apologize for being such a central character in your imagination.

Do you think it's possible that your "interpretations" of me, the "interpretations" that you've been scolding me with, are not what *I'm* about, but about what your demons are about?

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Response to delrem (Reply #65)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:42 AM

66. of course its possible except

i have no idea what these demons are that you seem to be on a "roll" with.

but you are not a "central character"....you have to "get over yourself"

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Response to pelsar (Reply #66)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:46 AM

67. I'm not a "central character" in your diatribes against me?

Of course I know that's true.

Your demons are the "central characters" in your diatribes.

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Response to pelsar (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:18 AM

17. But they didn't make their home wherever they felt like it...

The Israeli govt moved them there in the '50's....

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:32 AM

19. yes I'm aware of that...

in that particular instance they were moved there, i was writing about the more general aspect of the hundreds of bedoiun home that "dot the negev"

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Response to pelsar (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:50 AM

25. Why not just build them a town where they already live?

 

Since they are already there? That should be looked at as a possibility.

And do you ever wish Netanyahu would pipe down? Does he represent the views of most Israeli people?
I have never thought that he does, but I wonder about it sometimes.
Is Israel stuck with a leader who is not representing the people?
I tend to believe that most Israelis that I have met seem more reasonable and kind.
Maybe it's time for some changes in government. We are having problems with our house of reps not representing the people very well and it is hard to vote certain people out of office.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #25)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 03:03 AM

28. i don't know...

I don't know the specifics, the politics involved in this particular one.

Netanyhu is an astute politician...and was elected twice, Like in the states and democracies everywhere, politics go right and then left and back to right and back to left and we have a very strong entrenched elite here.....just normal democracy

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #29)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 05:26 AM

30. wait a minute

Last edited Mon Nov 11, 2013, 06:04 AM - Edit history (2)

in a different thread you made it very very very clear that the internal politics of a country is "none of your business"...remember? You don't have the paternalistic, colonialistic attitude that gives you the right to tell some other country "how to govern"

I would think you should want to add to your post that in fact whatever the JNF in cahoots with the israeli govt does to its own citizens is simply none of any body's business....you made that very clear in that post of yours.

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Response to pelsar (Reply #30)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 03:12 PM

38. really is that what I said is that simply what you need to claim at the moment?

if I remember you were laying pout requirements and needed guarantees before the Palestinians could have a state all of which were far more rigorous than any I remember in recent history

besides I was not telling anyone "how to govern" I pointing out the facts behind this story sorry if you would rather those things remain hidden

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #38)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:20 AM

39. so explain why u think that..

I pointing out the facts behind this story sorry if you would rather those things remain hidden
and why do you think that...please explain clearly, why i am against, as per your opinion here, freedom of the press



and this is your quote from the previous quote
...would you let them do this to themselves" and the answer is yes

so if i understand you still believe, that what israel is doing to its population is israels business and no one should be telling israel how to govern


_______

this does require a comment: btw, though this belongs on the other topic

needed guarantees before the Palestinians could have a state all of which were far more rigorous than any I remember in recent history
why are you so against democracy?

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Response to pelsar (Reply #39)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:43 AM

40. well then explain exactly why you were complaining

about my posting additional info on the Prawer Plan?

and oh I am not against democracy

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #40)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 03:21 AM

42. i'm asking for an explanation...not complaining

where do you see a complaint?


____________
and since you have no objections to creation of a non democratic state...apparently if your not against democracy (as you claim) you are definitely against civil rights, freedom of speach. etc for the individual

why else would you be promottingthe formation of such a state?

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Response to pelsar (Reply #42)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 03:54 PM

44. why do you keep making nonsensical statements?

really I can not answer what is to be honest bull puckey

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #44)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 04:44 PM

45. then explain it clearly for once

you are clearly in favor of a Palestenians state, where the present leaders and polls are anti democratic and clearly will make such a state a dictatorship. This is not a secret.

and you apparently don't have a problem with this....perhaps you would like to explain to me using simply english, how you can be pro civil rights, and yet promote a new country that will in fact be anti civil rights?

and if your telling me "thats what the people want' what happens when they no longer "want it"?....like the next generation?

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Response to pelsar (Reply #45)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 05:30 PM

46. This subthread started because you did not like my posting about the JNF and it's role in the Prawer

Plan which you now deny, given that and the fact that I already explained myself to you and you chose to twist it around to suit your own needs why bother

here is that post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113450998#post29

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #46)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 05:48 PM

47. why wouldn't i not like your posting?

i happen to like freedom of the press and the exposure it provides to a govt.

i was just curious as to one who promotes the concept that every state should govern as they see fit, without outside interference since it might be construed as 'colonialist" and you appear to believe that israels internal affairs should infact be "interfered with".

so i was just wondering about that...why are you promoting israels "warts" if its none of anybodies business?

and in fact I've never ever seen you post anything to that affect when it comes to israels internal affairs...so do you believe that what israel does to its citizens i non of anybodies business?...just looking to clarify it, in real clear english

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Response to pelsar (Reply #47)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 09:09 PM

49. so your saying I should not post anything germane to the subject of the OP?

I do understand why though, weren't you saying up thread that Israeli law prevents exactly what Israeli law allows the JNF to do?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #49)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 10:51 PM

51. pelsar, the "illiberal liberal", isn't averse to posting direct contradictions.

He doesn't seem to understand the value of consistency.

Also, I've never known him to actually acknowledge a point made - whether in discussions with Ken Burch, you, me, scootaloo, whoever that's not on team hasbara. In lieu of that pelsar "interprets" words in ways most suitable for attacking the person/character, and he *cannot* distinguish his interpretations from reality.

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Response to delrem (Reply #51)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 05:24 AM

55. you have to write in real english....

then i can understand..use dictionary definitions, this is part of communicating using a common base

and since you mentioned it..i easily acknowledge the warts of israel and in fact i detest the concept of a "utopia" and do not want your version or anybodies elses version of a "perfect society' hence the warts and injustices are an integral part of the imperfect society, that i prefer to live in.

but i suspect you have no idea what all of that means..

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Response to pelsar (Reply #55)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 05:47 AM

57. I didn't "mention" any such thing, pelsar. That is the devil in your head speaking.

I think you should tackle that devil, pelsar. Or get a new choreographer.

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Response to delrem (Reply #57)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 01:25 PM

59. thats why i wrote

but i suspect you have no idea what all of that means..

you apparently have a very very very narrow view of the world, with an even narrower understanding of the different worlds cultures....

have you ever and i mean ever left your cozy environment for a strange and foreign one, where you didn't understand the culture, the language the people? ever?...anything?..because you desperately need some cultural education.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #49)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 05:18 AM

54. i just looking for an explanation....

in fact israeli law does prevent what the JNF has in their charter....buts that obvious to anyone who understands that the State makes the laws. Of course you have made it clear before that you don't believe certain groups with certain genes have to follow state laws.....you do remember this of course.

i think you should post everything you want...just want an explanation as to why, given your philosophy, as i see a contradiction...... care to answer this time?

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Response to pelsar (Reply #54)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 05:44 AM

56. Really Israeli law prevents the JNF from doing ummm what their doing

well okay then the Bedouin will be allowed to stay in their present homes?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #56)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 01:18 PM

58. whats so difficult for you?

is there something in the question that you cannot answer? this is like the 4th time i'm asking. Perhaps just say, your never going to answer it...

so i'll try again:
you've made it clear that what a country does to its own citizens is none of anybodies business, outside of that country, so why are you so interested in israels internal problems and why bring them up publicly? since, and i repeat, according to you, its nobodies business?

answer that and as an israeli citizen i'll explain to you the inner workings of israeli society and govt

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Response to pelsar (Reply #58)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 01:25 PM

60. i have answered you don't like the answer is you claim none was made been doing this same dance for

years now ans once again with the claims that i said something i didn't

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #60)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:04 AM

63. if you answered....then where is the 'why"

as far as i understand your answer consists of "what am i trying to hide the info, or why don't i want to publicized". Well as a strong advocate of the free press and free speech without any hindrance, infact i do want that stuff publicized, and talked about and fixed.

as a believer of "all politicians lie" as per their profession, they are not to be trusted to do the right thing without public pressure, i want everything talked about....

BUT....you are an advocate of "each country should do what it wants to its own citizens and its none of anybodies business" that you made very clear since it strikes you as paternalistic and colonialistic.

so the question is WHY do YOU, publish the internal problems of israel as to its own citizens?....this is a personal question. Obviously if you don't want to explain your personal reasons, that more than reasonable, I'm just asking how you justify the apparent contradiction.

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Response to pelsar (Reply #63)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 05:15 AM

68. why do

you think i publish the internal politics of Israel?

but here is the basis for your claims that i am antidemocratic- based on your statements that the Palestinians should not be allowed a state unless they can guarantee a government that satisfies you, it was an interesting exchange to say the least

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=50831

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #68)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 05:29 AM

69. i'm a poor guesser

Last edited Thu Nov 14, 2013, 07:25 AM - Edit history (1)

so it probably best to just ask directly, hence i am asking again.....

______
as since its my life on the line, my kids, my family, so yes i do believe my govt should definitely have a say in the type of govt that is developed ...and if i had the power, yes again, they would have to satisfy my minimal demands for a govt that protects the civil rights of its citizens, as would all up and coming countries.

you obviously are against such a principle and put civil rights as a secondary issue (if at all) and are more concerned with nationalism as far as I understand. (reminds me of the nationalism we saw in kosvo...)

i define that as being anti democratic

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Response to pelsar (Reply #69)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 08:22 AM

70. so IOW you believe it's okay for Israel to

deny civil rights to Palestinians but not for the Palestinians to do it to themselves-got it

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #70)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 11:08 AM

71. before you go there.....and change the subject

and i will answer, you, but first......i've now been asking over 5x and you have simply refused to answer....i request either answer or say you wont answer

if you would like, shall i repeat the question?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #29)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 07:23 PM

48. The Begin plan

Recognizing that the Bedouin of the Negev need assistance, the government of Israel created a comprehensive policy aimed at improving their economic, social and living conditions, as well as resolving long-standing land issues. This new policy constitutes a major step forward towards integrating the Bedouin more fully into Israel's multicultural society, while still preserving their unique culture and heritage.

-snip-

To this end, Israel has allocated approximately 2.2 billion dollars (8 billion shekels), including over 330 million dollars (1.2 billion shekels) for specific economic and social development projects.

This January 2013 policy - named after then-minister Ze'ev Binyamin (Benny) Begin - is designed to solve a wide range of problems affecting the Bedouin population. Among the numerous initiatives that have begun or are planned are the expansion of technological and adult education, the development of industrial centers, the establishment of employment guidance centers, assistance in strengthening Bedouin local governments, improvements to the transportation system, centers of excellence for students and support for Bedouin women who wish to work or start businesses.

http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Issues/Pages/The-Bedouin-in-the-Negev-and-the-Begin-Plan-4-Nov-2013.aspx

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Sun Nov 10, 2013, 10:44 PM

4. So how is supporting Israel

 

supposed to further US interests? You know like freedom, and justice, and equality under the law...

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Response to CFLDem (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 10, 2013, 11:51 PM

8. Becuase we can uilize Israel as a tool of threat against more useful people in the middle east

 

Egypt, for instance.

Saudi Arabia is our wallet in the middle east, Israel is our brass knuckles.

Freedom, justice, equality, oh man, in US foreign policy, are you KIDDING? We would make Rome go "Fuck guys, take it easy!"

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Response to Purveyor (Original post)

Mon Nov 11, 2013, 12:32 AM

9. The Israeli government actually told the Bedouin to move there...

in the 1950s. Thats what makes Israel's behaviour in this context especially heinous.

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Response to shaayecanaan (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 01:32 AM

41. Is your accent on "especially" because this proves that ...

there's been *no* social evolution under Zionist government rule in all that time, even when it's clearly obvious to anyone of sound mind that ... something's not right? That's how I read it.

I read it that the overwhelming problem, or cause of the I/P war, is the Fundamentalist Zionist Law that defines (an explicitly expansionist) Israel to be a Jewish state, one where there is a Jewish majority. That law makes every conversation with a Fundamentalist Zionist be somehow about demographics, degenerating into common slander.

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