Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumEnemies, a hate story
The all-clear was sounded as soon as the news came that the school bus was Palestinian.
Only the most perceptive viewers of Thursday's accident - in which nine children and one adult were killed when their bus collided with a truck north of Jerusalem - could make the distinction. But something in the manner of the coverage intimated at it immediately.
But what came next cannot be excused. The Internet roiled - not with the usual anonymous comments, the last refuge of boors and perverts. This time they revealed their names and their Facebook photos, spewing forth nauseating, hate-permeated racism that seemed to exceed anything seen here previously.
"Relax, these are Palestinian children," Benny Dazanashvili wrote on Twitter. To which Tal Biton responded, "It seems these are Palestinians ... God willing." Itai Viltzig offered up a prayer: "I hope every day there is a bus like this." Dozens, if not hundreds, of Internet surfers said a prayer of thanks - for the terrible death by fire of young children on a school field trip - and the responses were featured on the web pages of the prime minister and the Israel Police and the Walla! web portal.
"They'll want money, because money is more important to them than the children who were killed," one person wrote. Others commented, "Can we send another truck?" and "I'd have sent a double semi-trailer to obliterate all those shits."
On the official Facebook page of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who was actually quick to express his sorrow from faraway Cyprus over the accident, the comments are still visible like some mark of Cain on their authors and their host. From Yisrael Ohana: "I don't care; for my part every Palestinian child is a future suicide-bomber candidate. Tomer Ben Haim: "There is just one thing that anyone who attacks Judaism deserves." The only light came from Meira Baruch, who wrote: "I'm 63 years old. Only a few times in my life have I been ashamed to be a Jew. Today I am ashamed. How can anyone rejoice over the death of little children?"
http://www.haaretz.com/misc/search-results?view=results&sort_method=date&startDate=01%2F02%2F2012&page=0&search_type=site&endDate=19%2F02%2F2012&q=&author=1.402&submitBtn=Search
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... how can ANYONE justify celebrating the death of a child?
"Gaza residents from the southern city of Rafah hit the streets Saturday to celebrate the terror attack in the West Bank settlement of Itamar where five family members were murdered in their sleep, including three children.
Residents handed out candy and sweets, one resident saying the joy is a natural response to the harm settlers inflict on the Palestinian residents in the West Bank.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4041106,00.html
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And what happened at Itamar(which most Palestinians condemned, btw) does NOT mean this is no big deal.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Because of what Gideon idiotically wrote in this article.
Specifically, he wrote:
"It is doubtful that Palestinians rejoiced over the Israeli deaths then in the way that Israelis are rejoicing over the Palestinian deaths now."
This line is preposterous.
Some Palestinians do rejoice over innocent Israeli deaths, just like some Israelis rejoice over innocent Palestinian deaths.
In both cases, most do not.
But to suggest, as Gideon does here, that this sort of behavior only happens on one side and not the other is clueless (or worse).
shira
(30,109 posts)...but in addition, he's seemingly oblivious to the constant stream of hate and incitement in Palestinian media that encourages and rewards murdering Jews.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11343829#post90
Levy has nothing to say about any of that.
But he finds his voice when it comes to a couple twitter/facebook comments.
saras
(6,670 posts)Another of those "obvious for decades, but not sayable in the United States" sort of things.
We have that sort of people here. We know everything we need to know about them, including what happens to a country when you give them access to power. They're the same sort of people wherever you find them - from Andorra to Zanzibar. They make us all ashamed to be human, or to not be quite human yet.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The link doesn't work. I can't find it on Ha'aretz.
Do you have a working link?
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Maybe they pulled it.
I used the phrase "This time they revealed their names and their Facebook photos" to search.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)This links works as of now:
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/enemies-a-hate-story-1.413424
This op-ed is one of the best illustrations of why nobody ought to take Gideon Levy seriously.
He magnifies the extent of the Israelis who are mean and nasty (by citing Facebook and Twitter posts) and pretends that similar nastiness does not even exist on the Palestinian side ("It is doubtful that Palestinians rejoiced over the Israeli deaths then in the way that Israelis are rejoicing over the Palestinian deaths now." .
The level of preposterous to be found here is off the charts, even for him.
Maybe that's why Ha'aretz appears to be hiding the article.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)TomClash
(11,344 posts)YOU chastised the few posters here who are not Israeli zealots for not caring about Israeli jewish children being killed.
Now look at your posts here. Not one shred of remorse, but rather knee jerk, ad hominem attacks on Gideon Levy. What a surprise - some children's lives are more valuable than others.
Haaretz isn't "hiding" anything. I screwed up the link.
Here is your link: http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/enemies-a-hate-story-1.413424
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The OP is dreadful. Gideon Levy is a clown. Ha'aretz is hiding the story. It used to be on their front page - now it's buried. Links to the original article from Google yield a 404 error. You didn't screw up the link - it was there before, now it's not.
The actual bus accident is a horrible tragedy. The one post about it here got nothing but sympathetic responses from various so-called "pro-Israel" posters. I would certainly whole-heartedly add my condolences as well. Oddly, I see no response from you to the post about the actual accident expressing yours.
Instead there was an almost immediate shift on the part of some posters to direct focus not on the victims but rather on the comments of some idiots who made nasty Facebook and Twitter posts in response to the accident. Gideon Levy devotes this entire op-ed piece to those reactions. Mondoweiss and others responded similarly - as did a poster here who even responded to the original post about the accident with a link to an article about Facebook posts.
What I'm seeing is certain people using this tragedy to try to make some kind of point about Israelis being heartless based on tweets and message board posts. Gideon Levy is one such person. I think it's crap and I am saying so.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)made me sick. Not by anyone here - the ones cited in that addon article.
TomClash
(11,344 posts)I actually do other things besides read DU and Haaretz, believe it or not. I have largely sworn off DU for a while for various reasons.
Levy is right in part. Many Israelis are heartless - it is good that some few people remind them of that.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I only mentioned it because of your accusation about me. I definitely was very saddened by the death of these children and viewed that accident to be a real heartbreaking tragedy.
My beef here is not with you but with the author of the OP and the way in which this article politicizes that horrible tragedy and turns it into an opportunity to claim that:
A. Israelis are heartless (based on a few Facebook posts and tweets)
and
B. Palestinians are not heartless (because, as far as he knows, there were not similar comments during the fire in Israel)
The ridiculousness of his claim that I have repeatedly cited illustrates the clownishness of Gideon Levy. His inability to comprehend or, more likely, desire not to believe that Palestinians have among them a similar number of unpleasant people who respond crudely and heartlessly to the deaths of innocent people is what is most galling about the op-ed piece.
It's really disgusting, to be honest, to run a story like this, emphasizing the significance of some amorphous number of Israelis, defined by Gideon as "many" posting nasty garbage on twitter and Facebook. One must be aware that when any innocent people die in any country there are idiots who post crude and mean-spirited comments about it on these platforms - they by no means are representative of the population as a whole.
Most insulting, though, is not simply the way he demonizes Israelis based on these Facebook posts and tweets, but how he then turns around and deifies all Palestinians with the ridiculous and demonstrably false claim that: "It is doubtful that Palestinians rejoiced over the Israeli deaths then in the way that Israelis are rejoicing over the Palestinian deaths now."
oberliner
(58,724 posts)This is just irrefutable proof that he sees only what he wants to see and is not interested in the truth.
For instance, he writes:
"During the Carmel forest fire of December 2010, the PA dispatched fire trucks to Israel, and apparently no one protested against it. It is doubtful that Palestinians rejoiced over the Israeli deaths then in the way that Israelis are rejoicing over the Palestinian deaths now."
Can he actually believe this?
It takes about thirty seconds of research to find this statement to be demonstrably false.
TomClash
(11,344 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)I'll put the false part of the excerpt in bold:
"During the Carmel forest fire of December 2010, the PA dispatched fire trucks to Israel, and apparently no one protested against it. It is doubtful that Palestinians rejoiced over the Israeli deaths then in the way that Israelis are rejoicing over the Palestinian deaths now."
TomClash
(11,344 posts)So your point is that some people on each side rejoice in children's deaths on the other side? I can agree with that.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Just like the various Israeli idiots making the online comments about this tragedy cited in Gideon's article that you posted.
I appreciate that you agree with me that this sort of thing happens on both sides.
Gideon Levy seems to have a difficult time grasping that reality.
shira
(30,109 posts)Ive always thought that Haaretz opinion editorials are proof, if you required more than the empirical studies done, that Israel is a democracy. The vile contempt that most of the left-of-centre columnists and writers show for Israel is truly a tribute to the cornerstone attribute of any civilised society: freedom of speech.
The news that eight Palestinian children had died in a bus crash is a tragedy to any decent-minded person. A sad loss of life believed to be because of adverse driving conditions.
For Gideon Levy, rather than sharing in the tragedy of the days events, it was a golden opportunity to stare into his crystal ball. Levys entire article is a crass condemnation of Israeli societys supposed reaction to the bus crash.
In what must be the investigative skills of a teenager, Levy rages against crazies on Facebook and Twitter using the crash to spew their own bigotry. He writes:
He has a point. But bigoted people will, not surprisingly, be bigoted on open platforms such as social networks. But thats just the starter. Levys greater condemnation is for wider Israeli society:
Enemies, a hate story. In the past few years, anti-Arab hatred and racism have reached monstrous proportions and are no longer restricted to a negligible minority. Many people dare to express it, and many more agree with them. All the discriminatory, separatist laws of the past few years are an authentic expression of that hatred.
Perhaps Gideon didnt see this:
Some Israelis from the nearby settlement hung this sign over the site of a bus crash that killed 8 Palestinian children. It reads (in Hebrew and then Arabic): The residents of the (nearby) Adam settlement share in the sorrow of the families, in their deep grief over the death of their loved ones and wish a speedy recovery to the injured.
In a heartwarming show of solidarity, settlers have erected a sign over the crash site expressing their sadness and grief. This isnt the product of some cosmopolitian Tel Aviv human rights group but of one group of settlers sharing their grief with the Palestinian people. If you ever needed evidence that the settler community arent a bunch of rabid, blood-lust devils then here it is.
http://hurryupharry.org/2012/02/21/enemies-a-made-up-story/