For the sake of peace, it is time to put an end to negotiations

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

http://972mag.com/time-to-put-an-end-to-israeli-palestinian-peace-negotiations/87813/

The ongoing “peace” negotiations are headed for failure. Everyone knows it. Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu know it, as do the leaders of the Palestinian Authority, who are participating in the negotiations under heavy American pressure. The US knows it too — since the collapse of negotiations in 2000, all those grandiose declarations periodically issued by U.S. presidents and secretaries of state have a tendency to evaporate quickly, leaving behind them momentary glory for the declarers, and additional legitimacy for preserving the status quo, deepening the occupation and the perpetuating the conflict for the residents of this country.

The current situation is comfortable for the ruling parties in Israel. Most Israeli ministers do not bother to hide their intention to continuing the colonization process in every part of the country. A small minority in the governing coalition, along with the Labor Party, expresses consistent support for “the peace process,” which may fool the well-intentioned observer to think that it wants a process that ends in an agreement. In practice, however, they support a peace process and not a peace agreement. In other words, they support an endless process that makes it possible to preserve American support and good relations with the international community, while shoring up the major settlement blocs and allowing various corporations to continue to enjoy enormous profits from the ongoing occupation and from the total dependency of the Palestinian economy on the Israeli economy.

It may be that the present situation is comfortable for Israel’s ruling parties. It may be that for many in the Israeli-Jewish public, the words “occupation” and “peace” sound like echoes from the past, words that are no longer relevant for present-day discussion. But for a great many Palestinians, this dummy peace process, a process that reinforces the existing situation, is insufferable. First and foremost, because it perpetuates occupation, colonization and daily violence, and dispossesses more and more Palestinians of their lands.

The colonization process sentences Palestinians to a life of oppression and poverty; tens of thousands live in the shadow of fences and walls under harsh restrictions; tens of thousands of people in Hebron live at the whim of a group of Israeli settlers, led by a lawless gang of extremists; over 200,000 Palestinians live without civil rights in East Jerusalem, while countless others live in villages or towns subjected to constant harassment by Israeli settlers. They cannot, and they will not, accept the continuation of a “negotiation process” that perpetuates and exacerbates their suffering. This dead-end process is creating a deadly bomb under the feet of both our peoples, a bomb that will explode with tremendous force in the near future.

It is time for the USA to tell the Israelis that enough is enough. No more apartheid.

[aranthus]

1. And the Wormtongues are at it again. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

2. My poor aranyhus...

Although they are many things I wouldn't call Netantahu and his government "wormtongues", but I will leave that up to you.

[aranthus]

4. Funny.

Last edited Mon Mar 3, 2014, 07:37 PM - Edit history (1)

But I was referring to the Wormtongues of the Left who claim to want peace and then propose total war to the death. From the article you posted:

[font color=blue]The only possible compromise for a peace agreement is known; there is no other alternative. The last and only historic compromise that the Palestinian people can accept and live with is well-known: a sovereign Palestinian state in all areas of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, including East Jerusalem; a full Israeli retreat to the Green Line; dismantling the settlements and rehabilitating the settlers within Israel; and full realization of the right of the Palestinian refugees to return.[/font]

Compromise? What compromise? Compromise occurs when each side gives something and gets something. How are the Palestinians giving anything in the "compromise" suggested by the authors? They get their maximalist demands. What does Israel get in that deal. Nada, squat. "Full realization of the right of Palestinian refugees to return?" That's their compromise? That's their peace plan? That's something that the Palestinians would have to fight a war to win. How is that a proposal for peace? The translation of that paragraph is, "For the sake of peace, Israel must be destroyed."

Now I will be the first to admit that the authors may be on to something if they think that the Palestinians will never make peace except on the above terms. But then the Palestinians don't really want peace with the Jewish state of Israel, and the Israelis should respond accordingly.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

6. You're not funny. You're askew.

The only possible compromise for a peace agreement is known; there is no other alternative. The last and only historic compromise that the Palestinian people can accept and live with is well-known: a sovereign Palestinian state in all areas of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, including East Jerusalem; a full Israeli retreat to the Green Line; dismantling the settlements and rehabilitating the settlers within Israel; and full realization of the right of the Palestinian refugees to return.

There is nothing in this post about war, and you left out the last part of the paragraph.

There is room for negotiations whose aim is to determine exactly how and in what ways and conditions this compromise will be carried out. There is no point to any other negotiation.

Compromise occurs when each side gives something and gets something.

What should the Palestinians compromise on with those who condone land theft, destruction of their property, destruction of their human rights and general apartheid of their population?

What does Israel get? It gets to show the world that it is not an apartheid state; bent of the willful theft of another people's lands.

[aranthus]

7. More of the same.

Do you think that any sane state would agree to a "right of return" that could conceivably change the fundamental character of the state? Especially when most of the people living in said state don't believe that there is aright of return and that it was fabricated out of whole cloth just to do that? Israel will never agree to any right of return as part of a peace deal. No state would. Therefore, the only way that this "compromise" is going to happen is if the Palestinians win the war. A legitimate peace proposal has to offer real peace. This doesn't.

[font color=blue]There is nothing in this post about war, and you left out the last part of the paragraph.

There is room for negotiations whose aim is to determine exactly how and in what ways and conditions this compromise will be carried out. There is no point to any other negotiation.[/font]

Except that no state would agree to right of return unless the other side won a war. Asking for what you would have to win a war to get isn't making peace. That's why the article is grossly dishonest. And the last part of the paragraph doesn't change anything. It says that there can be negotiations about how Israel will go about giving the Palestinians everything they demand.

[font color=blue]Compromise occurs when each side gives something and gets something.

What should the Palestinians compromise on with those who condone land theft, destruction of their property, destruction of their human rights and general apartheid of their population?[/font]

Then you should agree that the authors lie when they call this a compromise.

[font color=blue]What does Israel get? It gets to show the world that it is not an apartheid state; bent of the willful theft of another people's lands.[/font]

Israel has no obligation to live or die by others' delusions and lies. It's up to others to lose their delusions and stop the lies.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

8. I don't believe that any state, built on driving out another people,

would ever have any intention of giving back the lands, villages and wealth that it has accumulated since that time.

The last and only historic compromise that the Palestinian people can accept and live with is well-known: a sovereign Palestinian state in all areas of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, including East Jerusalem; a full Israeli retreat to the Green Line; dismantling the settlements and rehabilitating the settlers within Israel; and full realization of the right of the Palestinian refugees to return.

You really shouldn't call others liars when their words are very clear while yours tend to attempt to smear.

The main thing that seemingly is giving you a case of red-ass is that they are right, and the Israeli position of 'steal at all costs' is finally costing them in the PR department.

BDS.

[aranthus]

9. Oy.

Let's try this again and please follow along carefully. The authors call what you have posted a compromise. You even highlighted the words, so you know that's what they called it. Except what the author's propose isn't a compromise at all, since it calls for giving the Palestinians everything that they demand, in exchange for essentially nothing. That's not a compromise. It's a call for Israeli surrender, which isn't going to happen.

The second lie is that Israel is built on driving out another people. That's just historical revisionist bullshit. If the Palestinians hadn't started the war to drive out the Jews from land that was lawfully theirs (since they bought it), then there would be no refugees at all. No one driven out at all. The Palestinians' refugee status is largely their own fault and that of their Arab brethren.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

10. "It's a call for Israeli surrender, which isn't going to happen."

Since when is giving back what one has stolen at gunpoint considered surrender?

The second lie is that Israel is built on driving out another people.

Tell that to the 720k Palestinians that have been forced out of what is now Israel and not allowed to return.

Tell that to the Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza that are shot at by the IDF.

Tell that to the Palestinians who have seen Illegal Israeli settlers take over lands they once owned.

Tell that to the Palestinians who watch helplessly as Illegal Israeli settlers destroy their property while the IDF watches on.

Tell that to the families of the Palestinians who have been murdered by the IDF

Everything that Israel has done in the West Bank and Gaza is built on the conquest, subjugation and apartheid. If anything it shows the Israeli resolve to force out as many Palestinians as possible.

And the supporters of this Israeli bullshit look the other way and pretend they are the victims.


Yeah, oy.

[Mosby]

3. Do you think a solution should be imposed on Israel?

By the US and others, just trying to figure out what your comment means.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

5. Israel will not impose a solution on itself unless that solution

is brought about by a gentle but firm direction from the West...including America.

Just like South Africa, Israel needs some help in a general attitudinal adjustment kind of way.