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Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
Sun Apr 6, 2014, 09:39 AM Apr 2014

Rice leads call to scale down U.S. role in Mideast

*The wrath...

Administration frustrated with stance of both Israel and Palestinians, but privately mostly blames Israel.

By Barak Ravid | Apr. 6, 2014

The United States is preparing for a possible reduction of its involvement in the Israel-Palestinian peace process. President Barack Obama is expected to meet as early as tomorrow with Secretary of State John Kerry to begin a “reevaluation” of the extent of U.S. involvement. However, U.S. Mideast peace envoy Martin Indyk is to hold a three-way meeting today with the Israeli and Palestinian negotiating teams in an attempt to salvage the talks.

Senior U.S. administration officials say there’s a great deal of frustration at the White House over the point the talks have reached, which Kerry has led for the past 15 months. Obama and his advisers are not said to be blaming Kerry; on the contrary, they are backing him. The New York Times reported yesterday that Obama said in a meeting with his national security adviser Friday that he has “nothing but admiration for the way John has handled this.”

Publicly, the Americans are pointing a finger at both sides, but in private the messages are different. Although the White House is angry at the Palestinians for going to the United Nations, most of its ire is directed at the Israeli government, to which it ascribes most responsibility for the crisis.

This is because the Americans believe Israel failed to honor its pledge to go through with the fourth phase of the Palestinian prisoner release, and because of the publication of a construction tender for housing in East Jerusalem at the most critical juncture on extending the talks.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.583964

28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Rice leads call to scale down U.S. role in Mideast (Original Post) Jefferson23 Apr 2014 OP
further: Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #1
The only important thing that counts is who do the King_David Apr 2014 #2
Keep repeating that to yourself. n/t Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #3
Don't have to , I understand it, King_David Apr 2014 #5
Your belief system is not mine...good luck going forward. n/t Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #7
Mine are those of the Democratic Party King_David Apr 2014 #14
Is that the same Democratic Party that secretly blames Israel? R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2014 #15
Interesting comment because right now the American peoples representatives in Congress are majority azurnoir Apr 2014 #10
Pretty much. nt bemildred Apr 2014 #12
The only views of interest to me are those of the Democratic Party King_David Apr 2014 #13
Perhaps you need to readjust what you have written. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2014 #16
So you have no positions or opinions of your own? Scootaloo Apr 2014 #21
Well am I another of those "unknowing Jews " that you are find of calling all of us ? nt King_David Apr 2014 #22
I'm sure the party is a great dissapointment King_David Apr 2014 #23
+1 Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #18
There are 180 other countries in the world shaayecanaan Apr 2014 #27
Ha Ha which public opinion is as important as the Americans? King_David Apr 2014 #28
Interesting that Ms Rice is point on this. nt bemildred Apr 2014 #4
I thought so too...the wrath will continue.n/t Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #6
The Wrath of the Kerry, yes. bemildred Apr 2014 #8
Oh yes, Kerry's wrath..he is totally ticked off. Russia? Share your thoughts about that please, Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #9
Abbas doesn't really work for Putin. bemildred Apr 2014 #11
Oh, I see...I think. Well, if Putin can manage to use any influence that would super charge Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #17
Yeah, it's just kind of a half-assed idea. bemildred Apr 2014 #19
Positioning themselves, that is what they do. I suspect there will be Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #20
Lieberman: Israel may soon have a Russian-speaking prime minister Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #24
Well, maybe not so half-assed. bemildred Apr 2014 #25
Nope, not at all. n/t Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #26

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
1. further:
Sun Apr 6, 2014, 09:42 AM
Apr 2014

National Security Adviser Susan Rice is leading the push for a change of strategy regarding the peace process. Senior Israeli and American officials say that Rice believes the United States should reduce its involvement in light of a lack of willingness on the part of the Israelis and Palestinians to make the tough decisions. Rice is one of several White House officials who believe Obama needs to consider stepping back from the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, as the parties are not making the difficult choices that warrant maintaining the level of U.S. investment of the past eight months.

On Friday, during Kerry’s visit to Morocco, he held the most pessimistic press conference since March 2013, when he launched efforts to move the peace talks ahead. Kerry, who looked tired and depressed, said it was “reality-check time” for the United States in light of steps taken by both parties over the past few days that he said were “not helpful.”

Kerry said there were many issues on the table, but there was a limit to the time the United States could spend on the peace process if the parties themselves were unwilling to take constructive measures. “We’re going to evaluate exactly what is possible and what is not possible,” he said.

A few hours before Kerry’s press conference in Rabat, Morocco, The Washington Post reported that senior American officials had said that Obama believes that although the Israeli-Palestinian peace process was a worthy goal, Kerry’s efforts were reaching their limit.

According to the report, some of Kerry’s close advisers, as well as senior White House officials, believe that if Kerry does not step back, he could be perceived as spending too much time on the Mideast peace process at the expense of other burning international issues, and he could be putting his reputation at risk as well.

On Friday evening, after Kerry’s pessimistic remarks at the press conference, White House spokespeople and the State Department issued softer messages. However, they made clear that both the Israelis and Palestinians bore responsibility for resolving the crisis. Deputy White House Press Secretary Marie Harf told reporters, “There really needs to be some soul-searching here among the two parties to see whether they can move forward.”


Deputy Press Secretary Josh Earnest made similar statements Friday, noting the “responsibility” of Israeli and Palestinian leaders to make difficult decisions and “take these difficult steps on their own.” He added, “The difficult steps that the Israelis and Palestinians need to take to try to build some faith are not steps that can be dictated by the United States or any other outside entity.”

Justice Minister Tzipi Livni, who is the chief negotiator with the Palestinians, began over the weekend to prepare for a reduced American role in the peace process. She told Channel 2’s “Meet the Press” that a “correction” had to be made to get the peace talks back on track. “We need more direct talks with the Palestinians, and between Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Abbas,” she said.

Livni accused Housing and Construction Minister Uri Ariel of “intentionally sabotaging” the talks by issuing a tender for 700 housing units in the Gilo area of East Jerusalem, across the Green Line, at the height of the talks. Ariel said in response that Livni “failed miserably” after receiving “unlimited credit to make peace and release murderers,” and is now looking to blame “anyone but herself.”

Despite preparations in the White House for the possibility of abandoning the peace talks, efforts are continuing on the ground to resolve the crisis. Indyk met Friday separately with Livni and Netanyahu’s special envoy to the talks Isaac Molho, and with the Palestinian chief negotiator, Saeb Erekat.

The meeting Indyk is expected to hold with the negotiating teams today will be the second three-way meeting the Americans are sponsoring since the blowout in the talks last week. The first meeting, held between Wednesday night and Thursday morning, was very difficult, included exchanges, accusations and threats, and ended at an impasse.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.583964

King_David

(14,851 posts)
2. The only important thing that counts is who do the
Sun Apr 6, 2014, 10:24 AM
Apr 2014

American people blame for the breakdown of talks and who their representatives in congress blame . Period.

Hazard a guess.

King_David

(14,851 posts)
14. Mine are those of the Democratic Party
Sun Apr 6, 2014, 02:21 PM
Apr 2014

That's why I have no problem with their policy towards Israel , it matches my policy and values and beliefs.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
10. Interesting comment because right now the American peoples representatives in Congress are majority
Sun Apr 6, 2014, 01:34 PM
Apr 2014

Republicans with a total of 278 Republicans and 252 Democrats (total House and Senate) and this is an election year, so whom do you think the majority will be blaming? Not the Israeli's certainly and most likely not the Palestinians entirely-no the pukes will unfortunately very likely seize upon this as a failure of the POTUS and the SoS as an election issue, if much attention is paid at all

King_David

(14,851 posts)
13. The only views of interest to me are those of the Democratic Party
Sun Apr 6, 2014, 02:16 PM
Apr 2014

The party the vast majority of American Jews support .
The party that supports Israel .
The party that had resisted the creeping extreme right antiSemitic BDS crowd.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
16. Perhaps you need to readjust what you have written.
Sun Apr 6, 2014, 02:36 PM
Apr 2014
"The only important thing that counts is who do the American people blame for the breakdown of talks and who their representatives in congress blame."


AzurNoir has a point.
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
21. So you have no positions or opinions of your own?
Mon Apr 7, 2014, 06:02 AM
Apr 2014

You wait for the "Official" opinion to come down and inform you?

I have no idea what party you vote for Dave. But you insist you're a Democrat, so okay.

I want to know then, where is your capability for independent thought? If there's one thing Democratic voters tend to really suck at, it's agreeing with the Democratic party. And you seem to understand that the party can damn sure be wrong about things - you've told us you opposed the Democratic party's support for DADT and DOMA policies. Were those special exceptions, where the party was wrong only because their wrongness affected people you share some affinity with?

Knowing that the Democratic party can be - and honestly often is - wrong about a lot of things, you're going to need to start coming up with explanations for why their policy here is the right one. Failing that, at least express your own opinions, beliefs, and principles rather than using the party as a fig leaf when you get called out on your nonsense.

Because I'm telling you right now, this piousness about the democratic party just makes you look like someone who deson't have an argument. You might as well just go back to calling people antisemites, for all the good it does your position - and for all anyone cares.

King_David

(14,851 posts)
23. I'm sure the party is a great dissapointment
Mon Apr 7, 2014, 08:34 AM
Apr 2014

To you being the most steadfast supporters of Zionism and Iarael and Jews are in that party especially those successfully elected.

So how can you stand being a part of the most Zionist supporting party in the USA ?

Your opinions above are just that , opinions and I disregarded them.

And as far as there dissent within the party ranks about Zionism goes?
Please show me some under the platform of anyone standing under the party banner ....LOL. Thought not...

shaayecanaan

(6,068 posts)
27. There are 180 other countries in the world
Mon Apr 7, 2014, 06:31 PM
Apr 2014

and their views on this for the most part are at significant variance from the United States.

You may not be able to depend on Uncle Sugar forever, given that he is starting to look a little tired lately.

King_David

(14,851 posts)
28. Ha Ha which public opinion is as important as the Americans?
Mon Apr 7, 2014, 06:58 PM
Apr 2014

Europe? Not homogeneous opinion at all.
Australia and Canada, unfortunately insignificant.
Russia? who cares
China? Not Democratic.
Arab Opinion well important but really predictable and NO democracy.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
8. The Wrath of the Kerry, yes.
Sun Apr 6, 2014, 01:17 PM
Apr 2014

I expect a good deal of noise all around. I wonder if Bibi will further cozy up to Russia? (It makes more sense than you might think.) We (the USA) no longer seem to have a coherent position to propose. The only guy with a plan seems to be Abu Mazen, he's going to stick to his conditions and pursue the one piece of useful leverage that he has, making noise in the UN.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
9. Oh yes, Kerry's wrath..he is totally ticked off. Russia? Share your thoughts about that please,
Sun Apr 6, 2014, 01:33 PM
Apr 2014

I know Abbas met with Putin not long ago but I am not seeing what is in it for Putin at least
not then and nothing came out of it for Abbas...but that meeting was before the Ukraine upset.


Abbas has leverage now, he will hopefully use it wisely..I hope to see good people
coming to their assistance. I am curious to hear the EU's reaction too.

I am off for awhile...be back later.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
11. Abbas doesn't really work for Putin.
Sun Apr 6, 2014, 01:46 PM
Apr 2014

The connection is the large Russian immigrant population of Israel, which Abbas will not have the right attitude towards.

And it is observable that Russia and Israel are on friendlier terms than in the past.

It's just an idea I've had in the back of my mind for some time, and I'm not really comfortable trying to elaborate it yet.

If we start seeing public displays of affection, I may change my mind about that.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
17. Oh, I see...I think. Well, if Putin can manage to use any influence that would super charge
Sun Apr 6, 2014, 05:14 PM
Apr 2014

immigration to Israel, that certainly would be something Israel's government may
embrace. Since Soviet Jewry was mostly from Belarus and Ukraine and from what I
understand, intense division exists amongst Russian speaking former Soviet Jews in
Israel about Putin's actions.

It is also hard to guess, imo..if Putin will keep quiet about any support for continued talks considering
Abbas' latest move. Also interesting that Netanyahu, if I recall correctly, had to be pushed by the
US to denounce Putin at the crisis point with Ukraine, Crimea.

The Arab League agreed to Kerry's idea about the land swaps awhile ago, unfortunately.
What will they do now..pressure Abbas to go back to the bogus framework which does not guarantee
an end to settlements and all he gets are some prisoners? Arab League meets April 9th, so their
response will be of great interest too.

Lots for Abbas to worry about from the international community..agendas abound.





bemildred

(90,061 posts)
19. Yeah, it's just kind of a half-assed idea.
Sun Apr 6, 2014, 06:10 PM
Apr 2014

You can go a lot of different ways with it, once you start thinking about it, none of them particularly convincing, unless the existing US-Israeli relationship deteriorates further. And there are issues related the general prevalence of frenemies: whatever you do, it's going to piss somebody off. Syria is an example of that, is Bibi going to cozy up to Assad? Not likely. But Russia practically owns him at this point. And the US Jewish community might have something to say about it too.

But on the other hand I don't doubt that Bibi would go there if it got him what he wants. And I can see it working for Putin in several ways too.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
20. Positioning themselves, that is what they do. I suspect there will be
Sun Apr 6, 2014, 06:58 PM
Apr 2014

self imposed limits on Kerry's frustrations/wrath followed by a pragmatic approach
since we have a strategic interest with Israel as well..that's not going away
any time soon. In the mean time, Abbas has a chance and Israel imho, has opened the door
to be more isolated than ever before. So I don't think what you suggest is half-assed at all,
just speculative and all considered, that's as good a bet as any currently.

Who could even imagine Bibi turning away from an influx of immigrants? Not me. An out cry
from US Jewish community? That will be an interesting one if it does indeed take shape.




Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
24. Lieberman: Israel may soon have a Russian-speaking prime minister
Mon Apr 7, 2014, 01:15 PM
Apr 2014

* Working it in NY.

Israel's foreign minister speaks to Russian Jews in New York, lauds Russian Jewish immigrants' successes in Israel.
By Avital Chizhik | Apr. 7, 2014

Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman addressed members of New York’s Russian Jewish community on Sunday, praising Russian-born immigrants who have succeeded in Israeli politics, and wondering aloud if a Russian-speaking prime minister is imminent.

"Only in Israel could the likes of MK Yuli Edelstein or Jewish Agency chairman Natan Sharansky rise to their positions,” Lieberman said to a crowd at a synagogue in Brighton Beach, the heart of the Russian immigrant enclave in southern Brooklyn, which is also known as "Little Odessa."

"Only in Israel, can a young Russian immigrant arrive and in twenty years become foreign minister. One day we will have a Russian-speaking minister of defense, a Russian-speaking president, and soon we may have a Russian-speaking prime minister," he added.

Hosted by the Russian American Jewish Experience, the American Forum of Russian Jewry, the Council of Jewish Emigre Community Organizations, the Russian American Foundation and the World Zionist Organization, the event was open to the public and held at the Jewish Center of Brighton Beach, which serves as both an Orthodox synagogue and community center.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.584328

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