Israel isn't, and will never be, an apartheid state

[Mosby]

The war against Israel has passed through three phases.

The first was the attempt to annihilate Israel by conventional means. It began with Israel's birth in 1948, when Arab armies nearly captured Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, and ended in the 1973 Yom Kippur War, when Israeli forces came within artillery range of Cairo and Damascus.

The next stage, starting in the early 1970s, sought to cripple Israel through terror. Suicide bombers nearly paralyzed the country, but by 2005 they too were defeated.

That is when Israel's enemies launched the third, and potentially most devastating, campaign: to isolate, delegitimize and sanction Israel into extinction. And a key weapon in this stage is the hugely destructive word "apartheid."

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-oren-israel-apartheid-20140518-story.html

[OregonBlue]

1. Read the comments. Almost everyone of his points is destroyed.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

3. Hush now. Can't you see Mosby is flailing desperately

to change the narrative?

BTW, the USA has a special relationship with Israel. The USA gives Israel billions in military aid, and Israel in turn rapes the Palestinians with it.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

2. Desmond Tutu: Israel guilty of apartheid in treatment of Palestinians

Tutu, the Nobel Peace laureate, criticized Israeli policies toward the Palestinians in the territories as "humiliating." Desmond Tutu, the noted civil rights leader who became the first black archbishop of Cape Town, compared Israel's treatment of the Palestinians to the apartheid regime that discriminated against blacks in his native South Africa.

Tutu, the Nobel Peace laureate, told News24, a South African media entity, criticized Israeli policies toward the Palestinians in the territories as "humiliating."

"I have witnessed the systemic humiliation of Palestinian men, women and children by members of the Israeli security forces," he said in a statement.

"Their humiliation is familiar to all black South Africans who were corralled and harassed and insulted and assaulted by the security forces of the apartheid government."

I'd take Tutu's word over an apologistas any day.

[Viva_Daddy]

4. Right. And global warming and evolution are also hoaxes straight from the pit of hell.

[msongs]

5. you forgot the first phase which involved the establishment of the israeli state n t

[King_David]

6. Most of this Apartheid analysis comes from extreme right wing

Such as David Duke , Greta Berlin and the free Gaza movement .

Anti Semites seem to peddle this Apartheid analogy and this is clear in many forums you may read .

What else is not widely acknowledged is the Saudis finance prominent people including ex Statesman and Apartheid era heros to peddle that shit too.

[Mosby]

7. yeah, and for whatever reason oren

Is overstating the impact of the apartheid smear.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

8. Jimmy Carter, Desmond Tutu, Sos John Kerry... say what!

But please play up the victimization, but if you do so please try not to malign without proof.

[leftynyc]

31. Don't put words in Kerry's mouth

He never called Israel an apartheid state. The other two I couldn't care less about.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

32. How convenient for you.

[leftynyc]

33. Oooooh - emoticons

for those whose intellectual heft is the same as a colicky baby.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

34. Yes, emoticons.

If it troubles you, facts and truth, you can always bury your head in the sand. Nobody will have to hear you complaints that way.

[Scootaloo]

9. Wow. Right off the bat, it's a swamp of stupid

The first was the attempt to annihilate Israel by conventional means. It began with Israel's birth in 1948

Pure and absolute bullshit. The Arab League declared its intent to intervene in a civil war in the Palestine territory, immediately after the British dropped their claim of authority over the territory. It is happenstance that israel declared independence simultaneously. No effort was made to "destroy Israel," and in fact maneuvers were made to avoid entering Israel's declared territory.

Let us not forget that that civil war was instigated by Israel in an attempt to invent a Jewish-majority territory by killing and expelling as much of the Arab majority as possible.

I suppose Serbia's awfully grouchy about NATO intervening in its efforts to eradicate Kosovars, too.

when Arab armies nearly captured Tel Aviv and Jerusalem

Tel Aviv's air base was assailed by Egyptian planes, and... that's as close as that ever came. I'm not sure how Arab armies could "capture" Jerusalem, seeing as it was already behind their lines; Israel was the party attempting to capture Jerusalem in 1948.

and ended in the 1973 Yom Kippur War, when Israeli forces came within artillery range of Cairo and Damascus.

Well, because Israel was occupying Sinai and Golan, and the 1973 war was an effort by Egypt and Syria to reclaim territory.

Yet none of this even remotely resembles apartheid. The vast majority of settlers and Palestinians choose to live apart because of cultural and historical differences, not segregation, though thousands of them do work side by side. The separate roads were created in response to terrorist attacks — not to segregate Palestinians but to save Jewish lives. And Israeli roads are used by Israeli Jews and Arabs alike. The separation of schools is, again, a cultural choice similar to that made by secular and Orthodox Jews and Muslim and Christian Palestinians. Many Palestinians, however, study in Israeli institutions such as Ariel University, located in a settlement. Thousands of Palestinians, many of them from Hamas-controlled Gaza, are treated at Israeli hospitals.

Michael Oren's up to his nose in some George Wallace-level bullshit there.

Unfortunately, Palestinian leaders turned down Israeli offers of statehood in 2000 and 2008

2000 did not offer a viable state, but rather a trisected mess still under Israeli rule. Olmert would not show Abbas the map in 2008, unless Abbas committed to it sight unseen. The assumption seems to be that "a state" is the only criteria - could be a patch of dirt the size of a postcard, and fuckwits like Oren would be crowing about its "generosity."

and have now abandoned peace talks in favor of reunification with Hamas.

Peace talks were scheduled to conclude on April 29. However Israel refused to hold its own agreements as a precondition, effectively scuttling them a month earlier than that; it has nothing to do whatsoever with hte unity government plan.

This reality has not prevented Israel's enemies from branding it with the apartheid label.

Well, because that George Wallace bullshit describes Apartheid perfectly fucking well. Pieter Botha couldn't have phrased the outline any better than Oren did there.

They do so not to achieve a better peace arrangement with Israel but to isolate it internationally and to eliminate it through sanctions.

So is Israel's intent to destroy Gaza and Iran through its imposed sanctions on one and demands for sanctions on the other?

We Jews remember how each attempt to obliterate us, whether in the Inquisition or during the Holocaust, was preceded by a campaign to delegitimize us. People who practice apartheid are easily considered illegitimate.

Israel is a nation-state. Jews are a people. Confusing the two is a good sign of antisemitism. But then, I don't think I've met a Zionist yet who didn't deeply loathe Jews on a primal., unthinking level.

All Israel has to do is end its apartheid policies. see how that works? Fucking duh.

Israel is not an apartheid state and will not become one

It certainly practices apartheid in its illegally annexed territories. Given the constant rightward lurch of its government, I don't think Oren has a career as a telephone psychic.

However unwittingly, those who associate apartheid with Israel are aiding the third and perhaps ultimate stage in the effort to destroy the nation. They are also committing a grave injustice to the millions of American and South African blacks who were the victims of true apartheid.

Opposing Apartheid in South Africa did not destroy South Africa, it destroyed Apartheid in South Africa. Now granted a bunch of National Party Fascist dog-fuckers kept trying to equate the two - just as this dog-fucking fascist Michael oren is doing right now - but history very clearly proves them wrong. And forgive me if I take Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu's opinions on comparing the two, over Michael fuking Oren's.

or Mosby's, for that matter.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

11. ...

[King_David]

12. "No effort was made to "destroy Israel,"

Ha h ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha


Oh boy and you want to be taken seriously here ?

Ha ha ha h ha ha h ha

[Scootaloo]

13. Israel has never been on the verge of destruction, and certainly not by the Arab League in 1948.

Just because your shitty little philosophy requires the fantasy of Israel always being on the verge of destruction doesn't make it true, Dave. Like Exodus, or this article by Michael fucking Oren, it's mythology invented to support a nonsense political viewpoint. Fantasy. Fake.

Then again so is pretty much most of what you believe as far as I can tell.

And no, I'm not too worried if you take me seriously Dave. Whether some yutz who thinks Chloe Valdary is an awesome person "takes me seriously" isn't high on my list of concerns.

[King_David]

15. "Just because your shitty little philosophy "

My philosophy is shitty eh ?

Some people should look in the mirror.

Well at least it predicated on fact that I'm involved in this conflict , it's all about hate against my people.

Especially hate from "western" people not involved at all and the only connection they have is an ingrained lifelong bigotry against an ethnic minority of 12 million worldwide.

Granted once we were weak and now we are strong...

That's what "never again" means and it doesn't sit well with those that want us to remain eternally weak .

[azurnoir]

17. Is that an accusation of antisemitism aimed at the poster you're addressing?

"Especially hate from "western" people not involved at all and the only connection they have is an ingrained lifelong bigotry against an ethnic minority of 12 million worldwide."

could be read that way

[King_David]

18. What do you think is my "shitty philosophy "

Jews or Jewish philosophy aka Zionism ?

What do you think was being referred to?

I'm not sure here , I do know that particular poster has called the Jewish National Philosophy "white supremism"

Most AntiSemitism is coded as antiZionism now days by the extreme right.

So I'm not sure at all.

[azurnoir]

19. so you were in fact calling the poster an antisemite? and an extreme rightist?

if not I really don't understand exactly what you're going on about

[Scootaloo]

21. You keep trying, and it keeps not working for you.

[Scootaloo]

20. You're adorable.

My philosophy is shitty eh ?

Given that it is, at its core, a political movement that expoloits and manipulates (and even at times, actively engages in) the suffering of Jews in order to justify violence, democide, and oppression against Arabs, yes, it is a shitty philosophy.

Some people should look in the mirror.

I look fucking amazing.

Well at least it predicated on fact that I'm involved in this conflict , it's all about hate against my people.

Case in point about shitty fascists using their shitty philosophy to exploit jews. Coming from a man who truly believes he has the right to de-Jew people, no less.

Especially hate from "western" people not involved at all and the only connection they have is an ingrained lifelong bigotry against an ethnic minority of 12 million worldwide.

So you believe non-Jews inherently hate Jews. Wow. I guess your fawning adoration of actual antisemites like Kenneth Meshoe, as justification for your blathering hatred of Arabs wasn't enough. I guess we need a new term for people like you. "Omnibigot" sounds liek something from a Transformers movies. I'll have to wordsmith something up for you.

Granted once we were weak and now we are strong...

That's what "never again" means and it doesn't sit well with those that want us to remain eternally weak .

Israel violating and engaging in violence against captive civilian populations is not a representation of Jewish strength, it's an expression of Israeli sadism. Much as with Michael Oren, you readily confuse and conflate the two, creating a personal universe for yourself where persistent and state-authorized violence against an entire class of people, is associated with the Jewish people as a whole. Thus why i called Michael Oren an antisemite, and thus one of the reasons I call you one as well.

Also, an advocate of ethnic cleansing doesn't get to use the phrase "never again." because your shitty little philosophy clearly requires "again, and again, and again," to work 'properly.' And it doesn't make much distinction as to who.

[King_David]

23. Thanks for the post ,

Great illustration proving my point.

Not all non Jews hate Jews but there definitely is a persistent segment that do.

I keep forgetting that unbelievably not only are you not a part of our people, not a member of our tribe , not only have you said the most vile things about Zionist and Zionism ( Jewish philosophy compared unbelievably to white supremism ) not only do you hate the fact that we are now strong and powerful , YOU still consider yourself a spokesman/women for the Jews .

unbelievable ? Yes

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

25. You should really stop with the baiting, king.

Not only is it insulting, but it also shows that you have a tendency to accuse others as fictitious bigots, in the example of homophobia, in order to silence them.

How many times do you believe that trick will work for you?

[azurnoir]

14. and a second

[King_David]

16. Nobody is surprised

[Mosby]

22. your trying to rewrite history

-snip-

The Arabs made clear they would go to war to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state. The chairman of the Arab Higher Committee said the Arabs would “fight for every inch of their country.”1 Two days later, the holy men of Al-Azhar University in Cairo called on the Muslim world to proclaim a jihad (holy war) against the Jews. 2 Jamal Husseini, the Arab Higher Committee’s spokesman, had told the UN prior to the partition vote the Arabs would drench “the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood. . . .”3

Husseini’s prediction began to come true almost immediately after the UN adopted the partition resolution on November 29, 1947. The Arabs declared a protest strike and instigated riots that claimed the lives of 62 Jews and 32 Arabs. Violence continued to escalate through the end of the year.4

The first large-scale assaults began on January 9, 1948, when approximately 1,000 Arabs attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine. By February, the British said so many Arabs had infiltrated they lacked the forces to run them back. 5

In the first phase of the war, lasting from November 29, 1947, until April 1, 1948, the Palestinian Arabs took the offensive, with help from volunteers from neighboring countries. The Jews suffered severe casualties and passage along most of their major roadways was disrupted.

On April 26, 1948, Transjordan’s King Abdullah said:

All our efforts to find a peaceful solution to the Palestine problem have failed. The only way left for us is war. I will have the pleasure and honor to save Palestine. 6

On May 4, 1948, the Arab Legion attacked Kfar Etzion. The defenders drove them back, but the Legion returned a week later. After two days, the ill-equipped and outnumbered settlers were overwhelmed. Many defenders were massacred after they had surrendered. 7 This was prior to the invasion by the regular Arab armies that followed Israel’s declaration of independence.

The UN blamed the Arabs for the violence. The UN Palestine Commission, which was never permitted by the Arabs or British to go to Palestine to implement the resolution, reported to the Security Council on February 16, 1948, that “powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.” 8

The Arabs were blunt in taking responsibility for the war. Jamal Husseini told the Security Council on April 16, 1948:

The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight. 9

The British commander of Jordan’s Arab Legion, John Bagot Glubb admitted:

Early in January, the first detachments of the Arab Liberation Army began to infiltrate into Palestine from Syria. Some came through Jordan and even through Amman . . . ​They were in reality to strike the first blow in the ruin of the Arabs of Palestine. 10

Despite the disadvantages in numbers, organization and weapons, the Jews began to take the initiative in the weeks from April 1 until the declaration of independence on May 14. The Haganah captured several major towns including Tiberias and Haifa, and temporarily opened the road to Jerusalem.

The partition resolution was never suspended or rescinded. Thus, Israel, the Jewish State in Palestine, was born on May 14, as the British finally left the country. Five Arab armies (Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq) immediately invaded Israel. Their intentions were declared by Abd Al-Rahman Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League: “It will be a war of annihilation. It will be a momentous massacre in history that will be talked about like the massacres of the Mongols or the Crusades.” 11


Sources:
1 New York Times, (December 1, 1947).
2 Facts on File Yearbook, (NY: Facts on File, Inc., 1948), p. 48.
3 J.C. Hurewitz, The Struggle For Palestine, (NY: Shocken Books, 1976), p. 308.
4 Palestine Post, (January 2, 7, 27; April 1; May 1, 1948).
5 Facts on File 1947, p. 231.
6 Howard Sachar, A History of Israel: From the Rise of Zionism to Our Time, (NY: Alfred A. Knopf, 1979), p. 322.
7 Netanel Lorch, One Long War, (Jerusalem: Keter Books, 1976), p. 47; Ralph Patai, ed., Encyclopedia of Zionism and Israel, (NY: McGraw Hill, 1971), pp. 307--308.
8 Security Council Official Records, Special Supplement, (1948), p. 20.
9 Security Council Official Records, S/Agenda/58, (April 16, 1948), p. 19.
10 John Bagot Glubb, A Soldier with the Arabs, (London: Staughton and Hodder, 1957), p. 79.
11 “Interview with Abd al-Rahman Azzam Pasha,” Akhbar al-Yom (Egypt), (October 11, 1947); translated by R. Green.
12 Security Council Official Records, SA/Agenda/77, (May 29, 1948), p. 2.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MF1948.html#_edn9

[Purveyor]

10. kick. Thanks for posting. +1 eom

[Zen Democrat]

26. When Jimmy Carter and Desmond Tutu say Israel is an apartheid state, I believe them.

[Mosby]

27. jimmy carter never said Israel is practicing apartheid

He has explained numerous times that his concern is that they will eventually come to that point if they follow their current path of settlement expansion.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

28. Thanks for the hasbara spin, but Israel is an apartheid state.

Carter at :30.

"That within the occupied territories, within Palestinian land there is a horrendous example of apartheid."

Brought to you by Israel...

But wait there's more.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/jimmy-carter-israel-s-apartheid-policies-worse-than-south-africa-s-1.206865

"When Israel does occupy this territory deep within the West Bank, and connects the 200-or-so settlements with each other, with a road, and then prohibits the Palestinians from using that road, or in many cases even crossing the road, this perpetrates even worse instances of apartness, or apartheid, than we witnessed even in South Africa."

[Mosby]

29. carter thinks that there is an apartheid system in the west bank but not Israel.

That's a important distinction you are ignoring.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

30. In the West Bank as perpetuated by Israel. That's what you're ducking.

Hence: Israel is an Apartheid state.