Naval commandos wounded in first Gaza ground battle

[Israeli]

Four IDF soldiers were lightly wounded and three Hamas fighters reportedly killed early Sunday in the first ground battle since the start of Operation Protective Edge on July 8.

According to the IDF, a force of IDF naval commandos set out to destroy a long-range rocket cache and launch site near Gaza City, in the northern Gaza Strip.

The force encountered Hamas fighters belonging to the group’s armed wing on Sudaniya Beach. Hamas claimed early Sunday that the encounter was not accidental; the fighters had ambushed the IDF soldiers.

According to unconfirmed reports from Hamas sources, three Hamas fighters died in the ensuing firefight.

The IDF said Sunday that four soldiers were lightly wounded and were evacuated to hospitals in Israel, but not before the rocket-launching site was destroyed by the army.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/naval-commandos-wounded-in-first-gaza-ground-battle/

[Scootaloo]

1. And see, there you go

Three Hamas dudes killed, the launch site destroyed, and a dozen other people didn't have to get turned into human coleslaw to achieve it.

[Israeli]

2. Bibi is testing the water Scoot ....

those are highly trained troops... what we call an elite unit .

So far so good .

But he knows better than anyone that public opinion can turn against him as soon as he sends untrained 18 year olds against whatever suprises Hamas has in store .

Using the IAF " to get turned into human coleslaw " is the easy option .....politically

[shira]

6. Israel tried that in Jenin & was still accused of a massacre.

They took way more casualties than they could tolerate & were still accused of war crimes.

Israel will be accused of the worst no matter what they do.

[Scootaloo]

14. Would you rather Jenin have been pounded with missiles?

[Fozzledick]

10. WTF, Scooty?

Are you in favor of a ground assault on the rocket launchers now?

Because that would mean supporting the hard decisions necessary to truly end the violence, and not just blaming everything on Israel, which is not like you at all.

Now I'm really confused.

[Scootaloo]

13. You're confused like a mouse who just discovered there's a world beyond the maze

if there is no avoiding an assault on Gaza, then yes, a ground assault is preferable. This is something I have stated before.

There are many reasons for this.

First and foremost, a rifle is a more precise weapon than a missile. it still has danger to innocents, but it does not deliberately target them as a matter of course, as a missile does.

Second, the only way to secure these rocket stockpiles, launch sites, etc., is to actually physically secure them. Doingso would also help Israel from a propaganda angle, "see? they're really where we said they were!"

Third, soldiers operating on the ground have a very different perspective from soldiers launching missiles from miles away or thousands of feet above. When you can see and hear and interact with the people around you, empathy becomes a factor, more than when you can just deliver push-button explosions.

By a similar measure, more caution will be exercised in the operation, if only to protect the IDF men on the ground.

Men on the ground are also more likely to capture or kill militant operatives than lobbing a missile is - a team of eyes and arms is simply more precise, and is able to give chase, while the missile just goes where it's pointed, by which time the guy it was aimed at is long gone (and again, using missiles as antipersonnel is fucking disgusting.)

If Israel is serious about dismantling Hamas, of removing the threat of fire from Gaza, then this is the only way it will be achieved - at least, the only military way (sue me, I'm an optimist). This will require the commitment to re-occupy the strip in order to preserve and expand the security gains. What's more it would be legitimately defensive.. .or if nothing else, definitely more defensive than the current spate of airstrikes.

i don't "Blame everything on Israel," Fozzledick. I'm just not willing to absolve Israel out of hand for the thigns Israel does, just as I do not absolve hamas of the things they do. There's an important lesson there, if you choose to learn it.

[Fozzledick]

15. Verrrrry Interesting....

We'll see what you have to say as matters progress.

[Scootaloo]

16. What I say will depend on what happens.

Unlike some, my opinion is not reflexive. it's conditional on events and circumstance around hte events. The term is "nuance."

Israel shoots a Hamas fighter in the face? Go Israel!
Israel shoots an unarmed teenager in the back? Israel can go choke on a watermelon.
Israel captures a basement full of flying pipe bombs? Hot damn good job.
Israel missiles up a care home for the disabled? That's some nasty shit.

[Jefferson23]

3. The entire pretext for this military action is sick. How do you get away with attempting to wipe

out a group democratically elected to their people. This is suppose to be the accepted protocol?

Sorry, this is fucking bullshit.

[hack89]

4. There have been no elections since 2006

As Hamas finds pretense after pretense to postpone them. And let's not forget the Hamas coup against the PA in Gaza in 2007.

[Jefferson23]

5. Hamas sucks, in a word. That does not change what I said, in any regard to this military action. n/t

[hack89]

7. When governments start wars

Then they become legitimate targets. If Hamas does not want to be destroyed then they should be more circumspect in shooting rockets at a more powerful opponent. The fact that they are elected is no magic shield from the consequences of their actions.

[Jefferson23]

8. I believe we have a major disagreement on who started what and when.

I did not state they are immune due to being elected, but there are major
discrepancies regarding the pretext used by Israel to go in an destroy homes
and Palestinians arrested by the hundreds before the rocket barrage.

[hack89]

9. There would be no Israeli attacks in Gaza

Without the rocket attacks from Gaza. I understand it is a complex muddied situation. But Hamas muddied it a lot more by deciding this was the best moment to start shooting rockets.

[Jefferson23]

11. I do not believe Hamas should be firing rockets, what I do believe is important is knowing

how this all went down in the first place.

And no, there were going to be attacks in Gaza when Bibi said he had evidence
of Hamas murdering the teens but produced none. Went ahead and destroyed
homes and arrested hundreds of people.

Like I said, the events and when they occurred are important..that does not
mean I support Hamas' striking with any rockets.

[hack89]

12. Ok. Nt