This Jew can’t support Israel

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/cant-support-israel.html

This article originally appeared in The Indypendent, an award-winning New York City-based free newspaper and online news site.

Growing up in my Jewish family, it was a given that Jews supported civil rights, opposed the Vietnam War and believed in education, science and progress. This didn’t make it easy to be a teenager in a small working-class town in central Pennsylvania, an area not known for either diversity or liberal views at the time. Israel was a distant place where survivors of the brutal European Holocaust struggled to live in peace, occasionally beset by terrorists and attacking armies from the surrounding countries.
---
The more I learned about Israel, the more I realized that what I had been taught growing up was a lie. But I also discovered that, even in the progressive movements in the 1980s, the issue was contentious. I spent my twenties working at the Guardian radical newsweekly, a paper that staunchly supported Palestinian rights; periodically we would lose a significant segment of our readership due to our alleged “anti-Semitism,” and we would receive occasional bomb threats from the Jewish Defense League, a nasty organization whose members would physically attack participants in pro-Palestine demonstrations.

This kneejerk labeling of critics of Israel as “anti-Semitic” (or in my case, a “self-hating Jew”) made me even more firm in my conviction that it was the special obligation of U.S. Jews to stand against racism in Israel. As more of us demanded equal rights for all in Israel/Palestine, it became harder to smear supporters of Palestine as “anti-Semitic.” The needle on this debate has moved considerably since the 1980s, when just to say the word “Palestinian” was considered inflammatory, even in some left circles.

[libodem]

1. NPR

Had an interesting discussion about Yiddish speakers vs speakers of Hebrew. Even in Zion, they have their divisions.

Oh Father/Mother God, Thy will be done.


your mostly atheist
daughter

[ann---]

2. Great article

There are many loved ones in my family who are Jewish and they are TOTALLY against Netanyahoo and his barbaric ways. Obama's silence is deafening. His unspoken support for Israel's rampages is sickening to me.

[2banon]

9. I'm no Obama Defender on policies.. but in this case I read his personal views differently..

My impression is that he has deep, deep loathing for Netanyahu, based on my "reading" of Obama's unspoken reactions to Bebe's visit's to the White House). Bebe is a straight up racist and proud of it. I believe Obama has no problem reading that.

I realize his scripted comments "in support" of Israeli policies which he does voice from the dais to the media, seems to lend credence to your comments, however, I intuit that he's toting the party line that the PTB firmly enforces.

On this policy and many others, I strongly suspect Obama's under serious threat of life (or other serious action) to his family and possibly to himself if he steps out of line. I only wish that he could drum up enough courage to just say so, and say it out loud to the world, in clear and no uncertain terms.

[shira]

10. Insane. The Israel Lobby will kill Obama if he steps out of line? Un.Real. n/t

[2banon]

11. Where do I say that "Israel Lobby" will kill Obama?

No where in my post do I say anything of the kind. Your reaction is insane.

[shira]

12. Last paragraph, first sentence. Here...

On this policy and many others, I strongly suspect Obama's under serious threat of life (or other serious action) to his family and possibly to himself if he steps out of line.

[2banon]

13. Absolutely no where in my statement are the words Israeli Lobby or any other named entity for that

matter. Additionally, i say in regards to policies in general (not just this issue) "many others" I intuit that Obama has acted under some level of personal threat. That doesn't necessarily stipulate assassination. It could but that's NOT the only means to threaten harm.

I INTUIT this to be the case in certain policy matters, such as this one, because Obama is no loyal friend to bloodthirsty racists like Netanyahu. And I truly do not believe that Obama actually in his heart supports any country perpetrating racists policies including warfare on another people.

So why then would he declare unwavering support for Israel and they're policies if he wasn't acting under personal threat of harm? What other explanation do you offer, ponder if someone acted in opposition to anything of what they personally believed, if not under threat?

[shira]

17. Yeah, right. Who's going to harm him if not the Israel Lobby? n/t

[2banon]

18. You're being deliberately Obtuse, I'm done here.

[unblock]

26. bwa haha! post coded accusation, deny, call name, leave.

i comes here for teh grate debate!

[shira]

31. Suppose you're Israeli. 1000's of rockets, terror tunnels from Hamas into Israel...

You demand that your government (Israel) caves in to all Hamas demands?

What do you do?

[wellst0nev0ter]

34. First I Demand My Government Take Away The Roadblocks And Open Air Prisons

Indefensible.

[shira]

35. Sounds good for Hamas, which will lead to more bloodshed.

Or are you pretending Hamas will react peacefully to Israel's gesture?

[wellst0nev0ter]

37. Yes, And The Current Strategy Of Bloodshed And Privation Is Working Out Perfectly

Indefensible.

[gopiscrap]

3. Thank you!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

4. Jewish Voice for Peace --

A great org I belong to that is for Palestinian justice. http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

6. + 1000

Thanks for referencing JVP!

[Duppers]

7. and there's J Street

They recently emailed this, encouraging people to join:

https://www.facebook.com/peacenotrevenge?refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fpeacenotrevenge&_rdr

[shira]

28. JVP is pro-Hamas & therefore anti-Palestinian

JVP can't (1) be against an unconditional ceasefire for this conflict with so many dying, (2) refuse to hold Hamas accountable for what it does against its own people, and then claim to be pro-Palestinian.

Simply.Not.Possible

[Hell Hath No Fury]

33. Venturing out of I/P I see...

[rickyhall]

5. I'm having a lot of trouble with that, too.

[shira]

30. You take 1000's of rockets for a decade. See how you'd feel about Hamas...

What would you suggest Israel do?

[genwah]

8. "Support your country always, support your government when it's right" Damnit, we're supposed to

be the good guys!

[KauaiK]

14. I do not understand WHY the Israeli's do to the Palestinians what was done to them for centuries

I would think they would be more cognizant of their actions. I also risk being called anti-Semitic, but the horrors of what is being done in Gaza are beyond justification.

[shira]

29. Do u not know what Israelis are dealing with (re: Hamas)? What can they do? n/t

[KauaiK]

38. Shira I hear what your stating,

however, if you live by the sword, you die by the sword. The current bombing of Gaza just creates more hate militants and suicide bombers. I am old enough to remember ALL of the wars between the Arab nations and Israel. The state of Israel (like all of the middle east) was created by other countries after war.

[ellenrr]

39. esp. when some Israelis beat up beat up Arabs ..

for no reason other than they are Arab.
which is reminescent of Nazis beating up Jews.

and run thru the streets shouting "death to the Arabs".
One a-hole even said "Put the Arabs in concentration camps."

I think it's like - on an individual basis - a person who is abused - may become an abuser or may become a very compassionate person.

and let's not forget that there are Jews who are Holocaust survivors who oppose Israeli politics.--
who say, Never Again - to anyone.

[PCIntern]

15. Well, that Jew is well-outnumbered

about 10 million or so...conservatively....but who is counting?

Oh.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

19. Coming from you I'd bet he would take that as a compliment.

[PCIntern]

21. Sneering reply. I'm impressed.

Don't worry, Israel will be around for a very long time as will I. And we both have something in common...

We never ever forget....

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

22. You're welcome.

We never ever forget....

I hope that you never ever forget how Israel has just butchered a bunch of civilians while excuses are made and the victims blamed.

[2banon]

23. Yeah Hitler was a Palestinian. ChecK.

Apart from the steaming pile of racism your comment conveys, it's still astonishing to see and hear people who were persecuted turn around and behave with a striking similarity to the brown shirts with a striking similarity of blind hatred.

[PCIntern]

24. Some folk are fascinated by Nazi uniforms...

It often comes up in discussion.

[King_David]

20. Probably 11 million 980 thousand :1

My guess

[progressoid]

27. Exactly. Might makes right.

Oh.

[PCIntern]

41. ...and when the Jews went to their deaths without a murmur

many people everywhere stood by quietly. Some cheered. FDR knew what was ongoing...didn't take many refugees, didn't bomb the rail lines into the death camps. I often wonder where many would stand today on these issues.

[shira]

42. We're not supposed to mention how Hamas calls for killing all Jews...

We must pretend they're peaceful and that they only want 2 states, to live side-by-side in peace. Only the Nazis hated Jews enough to kill them. Since then, there's no antisemitism. It simply doesn't exist anymore so Israel can't use it as an excuse.

Easier to bash Israel for being irrational and evil against poor Hamas when Hamas is portrayed as innocent & misunderstood.

IMO, denying what Hamas truly is when it comes to their stance on Jews isn't too far off from Holocaust denial.

[PCIntern]

45. ...about one hair's-breadth.

Can you imagine if the remnants of one of the Native American tribes declared war on those who inhabit the land they once lived upon and started shooting flaming arrows into people's homes? These people would be calling for the National Guard and the regular Army with fixed bayonets.

[progressoid]

60. Golly, I said none of those things.

Nor do I believe any of those things.

I support neither Hamas nor Israel. I'm having a hard time finding the "good guys" in this war.

[progressoid]

59. We could ask FDR.

Oh, wait, he's been dead for 70 years. So his opinion is applicable to today's war how?

[locks]

16. It's getting harder and harder

to tell the good guys from the bad, terrorists from insurgents, invaders from defenders, rebels from separatists, racists from realists, innocents from soldiers, children from shields, gun-sellers from gun- buyers, peaceniks from warmongers, military aircraft from commercial airlines, the faithful from satanists, refugees from bomb-carriers, the Onion from reality news..

As children we were carefully taught "all are precious in His sight" but we knew some were more precious than others according to how they looked or what they wore, and our pennies were going to the missionaries who would help them to be more like us, the good guys in white hats.

Perhaps we should have the media change hats, hairdos, or uniforms according to which side they're supporting. Or add disclaimers to every report such as: 300 people were killed today but we know they were told to take refuge and they didn't. Or: 300 were killed today but the killers were using guns made in another country. Or: 300 were killed today but we know we can't trust the numbers from that side. Oh, wait, they already say that.

So maybe we could paint "This drone is carrying bombs Made in _____ so you need to find a place to hide" in large letters and in 32 languages, and have the robots wear colors and flags just like in futbol so we'd know who to cheer for while we're watching the killing on TV.

[RufusTFirefly]

25. K & R! Saying this takes considerable courage and a thick skin. n/t

[Peacetrain]

32. Israel is a goverment.. Judaism is a faith..

You can be true to your faith.. and not support governmental policies
==========================================================
Iran is a government.. Islam is a faith.

You can be true to your faith.. and not support governmental policies.
================================================================
The United States is a goverment.. Christianity (the most prevalence faith in the US is a faith)

You can be true to your faith.. and not support governmental policies
================================================================

and so forth and so on for all religious arenas in any country.

[aranthus]

36. When did this place become the Radical Underground? n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

40. Oh, it hasn't. We Democrats like to

stand up for those who have no voice; no matter how far the national party has swung to the right.

To the Reagan Democrats the OP may appear radical, but do I need to add say anything else?

[shira]

43. But you're not standing up for Palestinian victims of Hamas….

…who have no voice. You guys refuse to acknowledge what Hamas is currently doing to Gazans.

Prove me wrong. What is Hamas currently doing to Palestinians who have no voice & need outsiders to help?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

46. I don't have to prove you anything.

Nobody that I know on DU cheers for Hamas. Nobody. Neither do I.

But I will not cheer for Israel as it bombs civilians. Kills babies.

My sense is that a lot of DUers feel the same way: putting you on the wrong side of the argument and in the dark.


You are always trying in vain to blow smoke up people's ass here and divert attention from the bad that Israel does.

Everybody can see through to your gimmicky nonsense.

[shira]

48. Point proven. So much for that BS about standing up for voiceless Palestinians. n/t

[bravenak]

51. Please.nt

[shira]

44. She can't support Israel….but she supports a totalitarian Palestine.

That's much better than supporting a liberal democracy.



She posts on a forum that's pro-Hamas and advocates Israel's destruction. The only way her 1-state nightmare will happen is via war. So like WOW, for someone speaking "as a Jew" I can't imagine why > 99% of all the world's Jews would disagree with her.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

47. Nobody cares what you believe. Your side, the right wingers, are losing more and more

each day.

All I can say to that is keep it going shira. You are your own worst enemy.

[shira]

49. My side is like 99% of all Jews worldwide, all elected Democrats in Congress...

…and in the Senate.

Yours?

Meh.

[bravenak]

52. Your side is getting smaller.

More democrats think Israel is using too much force rather that too little or just enough. They did a poll. Would you like me to link it for you?

And can i please get a link on the 99% of Jews worldwide agreeing with you? Thanks in advance, i'd like to see the stats for myself.

[shira]

55. Criticizing Israel is still my side. I'm talking demonization, defamation, BDS bigotry...

No Democrats are doing that. You do realize the difference b/w criticizing vs. hateful demonizing?

[bravenak]

58. Who is demonizing?

Hamas? The Israeli gov demonizes palestinians all the time. It goes both ways. But right now Hamas IS NOT pulling the triggers or pushing the buttons that kill hundreds of civilians.
Killing over a hundred children to get to a missile is not the way to handle terrorism. More fighters are created with each dead civilian. Whole families are being wiped out. Israeli politicians are calling for the deaths of the mothers of palestinian fighters, the rhetoric coming from Netanyahu is sounding more and more like the rhetoric coming from Hamas. The Israeli government is very right wing and they SOUND very right wing. I never support right-wingers who bomb hospitals to get to a missile that might not even be there. I never support grown military fighters who use missiles against children playing soccer on the beach.

Shira, you need to take a step back and judge the situation by what you would do. Would you kill civilians to get to a bad guy? No Shira, you would not. Neither would i. Netanyahu is doing it as i type this and he is arrogant and nasty about it. He feels nothing fir the innocent victims but distain. Never become the bad guy. The IDF should be BETTER than HAMAS and should kill Less civilians than Hamas. They are not. They are doing the bulk of the killing and the bulk of the dead are innocent. It needs to stop and Israel needs a new PM and Knesset.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

53. Ours? The people. World wide. That's all.

Get used to it.

[shira]

56. Hilarious. n/t

[archaic56]

57. Thoughts on this

excellent article.. The lady directly below postulated that our Prez, bless his heart, has been or may be under threat. actually he has had more death threats than any other president. Heck didn't you hear Coulter call for death squads?
The other interesting bit is your thread just made me realize how a certain social network is being used for a bit of social engineering (see Century of Self I posted in another thread)

Because at this so call open place.. the meme of the misquote about the "Master Race" is running wild all over there.Now I know I must go back and take it down .Bad on me for not researching..
IT seems to me that there are people for peace.. and some groups or group of whomever , who have a vested interest in fostering conflict.. because..why else make a meme like that but to foster violence..

what I keep being drawn back to is Eisenhower's warning about our MILItary Industrial Complex.. It could be as simple as those in the business..don't want conflict to stop because they lose money.. OR something far nastier..

who knows.. Just throwing the gray matter out there to see what intelligent discourse come out of it.

increasingly.. I see that "WHY" is the word we all may choose to use more often in the future.. who gains by the conflict is the question I ask?