Israel: No Gaza deal until security needs met

[bemildred]

Last edited Sun Aug 17, 2014, 10:20 AM - Edit history (1)

Israel will not agree to any long-term ceasefire in Gaza unless its security needs are clearly met, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said.

His comments came as Egyptian-brokered, indirect talks between Israel and Palestinian factions resumed in Cairo on Sunday. A five-day truce between the two sides is set to expire at midnight on Monday.

"The Israeli delegation in Cairo is acting with a very clear mandate to stand firmly on Israel's security needs," Netanyahu told ministers at the start of the weekly cabinet meeting in Jerusalem.

"Only if there is a clear answer to Israel's security needs, only then will we agree to reach an understanding," he said, as Israel's negotiating team made its way back to Cairo for indirect talks with the Palestinians over a long-term arrangement to end more than a month of bloodshed in Gaza.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/08/israel-no-gaza-deal-until-security-needs-met-20148179358622717.html

ETA:

[bemildred]

1. PA urges Hamas: Continue Gaza truce talks, even without immediate guarantees

Saeb Erekat, the Palestinian Authority’s chief negotiator, met Saturday with Hamas chief Khaled Meshal and urged him to continue talks with Israel based on the Egyptian initiative, Palestinian sources said.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.610957

[bemildred]

2. Hamas tells Israel to accept Palestinian demands or face long war

Hamas rejected on Saturday as insufficient offers made in Cairo to Palestinian negotiators seeking to end Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip, and raised the possibility of renewed fighting when the current truce expires.

Israel said it had also not yet accepted any proposals made in the Egyptian-mediated talks but, like the Palestinians, its envoys would continue attending them on Sunday.

---

Hamas, Gaza's dominant Islamist group, wants an Israeli-Egyptian blockade on the coastal enclave lifted, as well as the establishment of a seaport and airport, as part of any enduring cessation of hostilities with the Jewish state.

"Israel must accept the demands of the Palestinian people or face a long war," Osama Hamdan, the head of Hamas's foreign affairs, said on Facebook.

http://www.nation.com.pk/international/17-Aug-2014/hamastells-israel-to-accept-palestinian-demands-or-face-long-war

[hack89]

6. Better a war now than in the future against a stronger Hamas. Nt

[bemildred]

8. Or both, Why not both? War now, and war against a stronger Hamas later?

It's bound to work one of these times. What could go wrong?

[hack89]

9. No need. Crush Hamas for good

Demilitarize Gaza and then lift the blockade. Make the people choose between violence or a in other blockade.

[bemildred]

10. Sounds good in theory, doesn't it? nt

[hack89]

11. Better than the notion that Hamas will ever accept real peace

Along side a Jewish state.

[bemildred]

12. Israel Warns Hamas of 'Harsh Strikes' if Fighting Starts

You should enjoy this:

GAZA/JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Sunday any deal on Gaza's future had to meet Israel's security needs, warning Hamas it faced "harsh strikes" if it resumed firing into the Jewish state.

With a five-day ceasefire due to expire late on Monday, negotiators returned after consultations to Cairo to seek an end to five weeks of hostilities that have killed more than 2,000 people.

Both sides say gaps remain in reaching a long-term deal that would keep the peace between Israel and militant groups in the Hamas Islamist-dominated Gaza Strip, and open the way for reconstruction aid to reach the battered enclave.

Hamas wants Israeli and Egyptian blockades of Gaza lifted, as well as the establishment of a seaport and airport, as part of any enduring halt to violence.

http://www.newsweek.com/israel-warns-hamas-harsh-strikes-265100?piano_d=1

[hack89]

14. A reasonable warning. Let's see how stupid Hamas will be. Nt

[bemildred]

3. Chief of UN Gaza probe, in 2010: Netanyahu greatest threat to Israel

This clip is an excerpt from a panel taped at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland in 2010. The section relevant to Gaza and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu begins at 38:25.

"Frankly, if I had to think of an individual who would be the greatest threat for the survival of Israel, I'd probably choose Netanyahu," Schabas says.

The United Nations Human Rights Council last week named the three members of an international commission of inquiry to investigate possible war crimes by Israel during Operation Protective Edge in Gaza.

The panel will be chaired by Prof. William Schabas, a Canadian expert on international law whose academic focus has been on genocide. He is known to be highly critical of Israel and harshly attacked Operation Cast Lead at the time (2008-09).

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.610954

[sabbat hunter]

15. This is why

the UNHRC and Schabas should not be leading any investigation in to war crimes.

The UNHRC has a long history of an anti-Israel bias, as does Schabas. They have already determined the outcome of the investigation and will only look for evidence to support their pre-determined outcome.

[bemildred]

16. Only if you think Bibi is good for Israel. nt

[King_David]

21. I don't think that makes any difference to the outcome.

I personally think Bibi is horrible for Israel and I also think the outcome of the enquiry has been predetermined too.

[sabbat hunter]

22. agreed n/t

[bemildred]

24. But what he said was:

"Frankly, if I had to think of an individual who would be the greatest threat for the survival of Israel, I'd probably choose Netanyahu,"

Which you admit seems accurate. So I fail to see how that means he is biased.

[sabbat hunter]

28. because of other statements he has made

like equating Shimon Peres with Gaza, to the President of Sudan and the Darfur massacre.

[intaglio]

20. Why? because they are critical?

I suppose you would prefer someone wholly beholden to Israel.

[sabbat hunter]

23. I would prefer

someone who has been critical of both sides equally. the UNHRC has a LONG history of an anti-israel bias. As does the man leading it.

[intaglio]

25. How do you define "anti-Israel bias"?

I repeat being critical of the known crimes of the Israeli state is not being anti-Israel.

[sabbat hunter]

26. for making statements like

that UN organizations should 'go after' former Israeli president Shimon Peres like they did the president of Sudan for Darfur.

To compare the two is either a sign of stupidity (which it isn't in this case as he is not a stupid man) or a person with a tremendous anti-israel bias.

[intaglio]

30. That is not "anti-Israel" it is anti-Peres

People who believe George W Bush are not anti-American.

Peres was known as an oppressor of Palestinians and who had oversight of war crimes was not the entirety of Israel. Trying to make that case is either stupidity or deliberately using false equivalence to further the cause of an outlaw state.

[sabbat hunter]

32. No it is

patently anti-israel.

There is absolutely no comparison to what happened in Darfur and the current situation in Gaza.

The president of Sudan is an absolute dictator who has sole control over what goes on in Sudan.

Peres (and all presidents of Israel) are basically figureheads with no real power.

But Schabas is trying to equate the two, which shows a HUGE anti-israel bias. He would have said the same no matter who was president of Israel.

Additionally he has in the past called for Bibi and Peres to be put on trial for war crimes, which is indicative of already having judged the situation before any investigation by his committee takes place. Another HUGE anti-israel bias.

[intaglio]

34. False equivalence and inability yo see how vile the Israeli regime currently is

So you are moaning about how the condemnation of a "figurehead" is somehow condemnation of the whole state. "There are none as blind as those who will not see."

[Shaktimaan]

29. Yes. But unbalanced criticism does equal bias.

Since its inception in 2006, the UNHRC has released a total of 103 resolutions. Astonishingly, 56 have focused on criticizing Israel. The UNHRC has held a total of 21 special sessions to address dire humanitarian crises throughout the world. One has addressed Sudan, another Sri Lanka, another Ivory Coast and another Libya—while 7 of the 21 special sessions have irrationally targeted Israel.

While the UNHRC goes after Israel, it has completely ignored Hamas’ actions. There have been more than 2,600 rockets lobbed by Hamas at Israel. But you’ll find the word “rocket” appear only once in this latest resolution.

.....

UNHRC’s mechanisms for voting and membership seem designed to protect some of the worst human rights violators in the world. This is an organization whose elected membership has included such stalwarts of human rights as Saudi Arabia, Cuba, Iran and Libya under Muammar Qaddafi. Israel is the only country that is on the UNHRC’s “standing agenda” to be debated at each session—not Syria, not the Congo, not Sudan—but the only democracy in the Middle East.

There have been more resolutions aimed against Israel than all 191 countries in the world, combined.

http://time.com/3060203/united-nations-human-rights-council-israel/

[intaglio]

31. Nice article - Written by the Consul General of Israel in New York

More biased than the agency it criticises, the second paragraph contains the manifestly untrue statement:

Nowhere among those 1,725 words will you find the name of the terror organization that is truly responsible for every civilian death and every human rights violation in both Israel and Gaza: Hamas.

[Shaktimaan]

42. You're right.

This opinion article written by an Israeli diplomat certainly IS biased; as you'd expect from an article written by a person whose job is to represent the interests of a single state.

That said, the organization he's criticizing is supposed to be a fair and unbiased judge representing global interests, the UN. The fact that this author described his particular narrative does nothing to vindicate his subject, the UNHRC, of any of the legitimate and accurate failures they perpetuated themselves.

You asked for evidence of the UNHRC's bias. I provided undeniable evidence. That your response ignored the significant points quoted in favor of centering on an opinion you disagree with implies an unwillingness to approach this subject with anything resembling objectivity.

To point out that the consul general of Israel in NY isn't impartial on this matter is irrelevant. I don't expect impartiality from him. I do however have a right to expect it from the UN Human Rights Council. As do you. And I find your willingness to overlook their failure in this area, (presumably for political reasons), mystifying. Is your hatred of Israel so overwhelming that you'd so eagerly trade the rule of objectivity in law to pursue it?

[intaglio]

43. So why are you pushing it as an impartial opinion?

Basic deception by yet another Israeli cheerleader

[Shaktimaan]

44. What's an "impartial opinion?"

I presented an opinion which was supported by several relevant facts. The facts being the key aspect of the article as they served as evidence for my own argument.

That you disagree with the author that Hamas is fully at fault for all human rights violations in Israel isn't really important. I disagree with that statement too.

That said, the points he raised about the UNHRC's bias ARE both relevant and accurate. Now that you have the facts of the matter, the question is whether you'll actually address them or whether you'll continue trying to derail the conversation with more red herrings and ad hominem deflections.

[bemildred]

4. Gaza talks resume as 5-day cease-fire nears end

CAIRO: A Palestinian negotiator said Sunday his side is “less optimistic” about indirect talks with Israel over the Gaza war as a deadline on a temporary cease-fire looms.

The Palestinian team reassembled in Cairo on Sunday after members returned from consultations in Qatar, Lebanon and elsewhere in the Middle East. The Israeli team also returned Sunday to resume the Egyptian-mediated talks. A current five-day cease-fire is due to end late Monday.

The negotiations have been going on between the sides since early last week. They are aimed at ending the latest war between Israel and Hamas-led Islamic militants in the Gaza Strip and improving conditions for the territory’s 1.8 million people. Israel wants guarantees to end rocket fire and attacks on its citizens.

Close to 2,000 Palestinians have been killed — most civilians — and more than 10,000 people have been wounded since the war began July 8, according to United Nations figures. In Israel, 67 people have been killed, all but three soldiers.

http://www.arabnews.com/news/featured/617111

[oldandhappy]

5. Security on both sides.

[bemildred]

7. Gazans recount Israeli 'mass executions'

GAZA CITY

Three weeks on, Rami Qaddih can still easily recall Israeli troops' "war crimes" of mass-executing Palestinians outside their homes in his battered Khuza'a town in the Gaza Strip.

"I saw with my own eyes Israeli troops shoot displaced residents who had been trying to flee the town under the Israeli shelling," Qaddih, 27, told Anadolu Agency on Sunday.

On July 24, Israel launched a deadly ground assault, backed by warplanes, on the southern Khuza'a town, which lies near the border with Israel. The unrelenting attacks come as part of a massive offensive launched on July 7 against the blockaded coastal enclave.

At least 30 Palestinians, mostly women and children, were killed in the Israeli raid on Khuza'a, according to preliminary accounts by the Palestinian Health Ministry in Gaza.

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/rss/374785--gazans-recount-israeli-mass-executions

[bemildred]

13. Activists Block Israeli Cargo Ship From Entering Port of Oakland

Thousands of pro-Palestinian activists have successfully blocked an Israeli ship that was scheduled to dock at the port of Oakland in California on Saturday.

The boat had been expected to dock in the early morning hours and protesters Ohad planned to show up at 5:00 am Saturday morning to block the ship. But as word spread that the ship had delayed its arrival at Oakland in an apparent attempt to avoid the protest the protest was pushed back until 3:00pm.

The protesters plan to form a picket line to prevent work crews from unloading the ship, if, and when it docks.

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2014/08/17/activists-block-israeli-cargo-ship-entering-port-oakland

[bemildred]

17. IDF rapped for Gaza strike mashup clip

Army posts video of jets targeting Gaza Strip set to catchy beat, but some disapprove of making merry of war

http://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-rapped-for-gaza-strike-mashup-clip/

[bemildred]

18. Hamas says Israel stalling on agreement as Gaza death toll hits 2016

GAZA CITY (Ma'an) -- A Hamas spokesman on Sunday accused Israel of "stalling" in ongoing negotiations in Cairo to achieve a long-term truce in Gaza, stressing that "the ball is in the Israeli occupation's court."

Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said during a march in solidarity with Palestinian resistance in Rafah that the group's "priority is to reach an agreement, but the occupiers must stop stalling."

"We are discussing an agreement from a position of strength, not weakness," he said, adding: "Either we have an agreement that meets our demands, or no agreement."

"Israelis will not enjoy safety until our people do and the siege is completely lifted. (Israelis in the south) will only return home when Hamas allows them to, not when Netanyahu does," he said.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=721251

[bemildred]

19. Palestinians to get Israel response on truce demands

CAIRO

Egypt will later Sunday notify Palestinian negotiators of Israel's response to Palestinians demands for reaching a durable ceasefire in the blockaded Gaza Strip, the head of the Palestinian delegation has said.

"We will meet the Egyptian side later Sunday to know Israel's reply to our demands," Azzam al-Ahmad, also a leading member of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement, said.

"We hope we can reach a final settlement within the next few hours," he added.

Palestinian and Israeli negotiating teams arrived earlier Sunday in Cairo to resume indirect talks as the Egyptian-brokered five-day truce entered its fourth day.

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/rss/374830--palestinians-to-get-israel-response-on-truce-demands

[BillZBubb]

27. Israel's "security needs": ie unconditional surrender by the inmates of Gaza prison.

What transparent nonsense.

[hack89]

33. Do you think Hamas has the right to offensive weapons like long range rockets?

because that is what the issue is.

Letting Hamas rearm simply guarantees a bigger, more deadly war in the future. Because Hamas will never be strong enough to beat Israel militarily.

[intaglio]

35. Do you think that Israel has the unfettered right to oppress and murder civilians?

Do you think Israel has the right to order the murder of its own troops?

Do you think that Israel has the right to wipe out farmland, to prevent fishing, to destroy hospitals, to destroy sanitary facilities, to attack humanitarian convoys and all the other crimes which the outlaw state of Israel has committed in Gaza?

Do you think that reprisals against a civilian population are not a war crime?

[hack89]

36. You really don't want to answer my question, do you?

because you understand the dilemma it puts you in. You really like Hamas and want them to destroy Israel. Yet you also understand that attacking Israel will get a lot of Palestinians killed.

I think Israel has the right to stop Hamas from shooting rockets at Israel. The best way to ensure Palestinians don't get killed is to make sure Hamas can't acquire rockets. I have no problem with Hamas acquiring purely defensive weapons - they just need to stop this fantasy that they can attack Israel with impunity.

Israel has the right to impose a blockade to stop the flow of arms to Hamas - according to this 2011 UN report, the blockade is legal under international law:

A long-awaited United Nations review of Israel’s 2010 raid on a Turkish-based flotilla in which nine passengers were killed has found that Israel’s naval blockade of Gaza is both legal and appropriate. But it said that the way Israeli forces boarded the vessels trying to break that blockade 15 months ago was excessive and unreasonable.

But the Palmer committee said that while it had concerns about that policy and urged that it be loosened further, it saw the naval blockade as a purely security-oriented tool that had been imposed to stop weapons from arriving in Gaza by sea. It also expressed strong concern about the thousands of rockets and mortar shells fired into Israel from Gaza in recent years. It said that because Gaza’s port could not handle large ships, a naval blockade had little impact on the supply of civilian goods.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/02/world/middleeast/02flotilla.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[intaglio]

37. Unlike you and Israel I do NOT defend Hamas

Hamas launching missiles in the vague hope of hitting civilian targets is wrong as I have said many times before.

However they feel they are justified in their ineffective attacks by the criminal actions of Israel which continue to oppress and kill Palestinians.

Now how do you feel about the war crimes and the crimes against humanity committed by Israel?

Now how about the facts.

The blockade is legal to stop the flow of arms but not to stop humanitarian aid;
the actions taken in respect of this convoy were in breach of international law as there were NO arms on those ships;
the murder of civilians who were armed only with staves by Israeli commandos amounts to a war crime;
the ships were inspected by independent authorities and certified to be free of arms;
larger ships were capable of docking in Gaza, until the attacks by Israel targeting infrastructure rendered this impossible;
Israel refuses to allow the upgrading of the docks;
the dock at Gaza can handle smaller vessels which could ease the humanitarian situation but Israel refuses to let that happen.

Israel is a criminal regime inflicting what amounts to crimes against humanity on the peoples of Gaza

Now how about condemning the real criminals or are you still just cheering on lawlessness and murder?

[hack89]

38. You seem a little distraught

I think I will step aside from this thread as you seem to have nothing but emotional personal attacks.

[Jefferson23]

39. Gaza truce extended for 24 hours

CAIRO (AFP) -- Israeli and Palestinian negotiators agreed on Monday to extend a temporary ceasefire in Gaza by 24 hours to conduct more talks on a long-term truce, a senior Palestinian official said.

The current five-day ceasefire was set to expire at midnight local time.

"Both sides have agreed to a 24-hour ceasefire," the official with the Palestinian delegation in Cairo said.

Palestinian sources in Cairo told Ma'an earlier Monday that a ceasefire agreement was being finalized after 15 days of Egypt-sponsored negotiations.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=721477

[Jefferson23]

40. Israel ends export to EU of settler dairy, poultry produce

JERUSALEM (AFP) -- Israel was to end its export of poultry and dairy produce to the European Union from settlements considered illegal by the international community, Israeli and European officials said on Sunday.

The restrictions stem from directives issued by the European Commission in February and affect chicken and milk products from settlements in East Jerusalem, the Golan Heights and the occupied West Bank.

"In keeping with previous decisions, the EU no longer recognized the authority of the veterinary inspections services of Israel to approve the export of poultry and (dairy products), the origin of which are in settlements," a European official told AFP.

The official said that during discussions over implementation of the directives, the "Israelis were asked to put in place a system of distinguishing between the origins of dairy products and poultry."

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=721308

[Jefferson23]

41. Israeli forces demolish East Jerusalem home

JERUSALEM (Ma'an) -- Israeli forces demolished a residential building in the al-Tur neighborhood of Jerusalem on Monday on the pretext that it was built without a permit.

Members of the Ghazzawi family, who own the building, told Ma'an that Israeli soldiers escorted bulldozers to the area and began tearing down the building.

Family members were not given any time to remove their belongings.

Tawfiq Ghazzawi said the two-story building was built in 1997 and contained two apartments, one for him and his mother and another for his brother, Ayid.

The family have already paid fines of over 200,000 shekels ($57,126) and have been refused a construction permit several times by Israel's Jerusalem municipality.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=721302