Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumUS feels the heat on Palestine vote at UN
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/12/feels-palestine-voteIn coming days similar moves are expected in Denmark and from the European Parliament. The Swiss government will join the fray too this week, inviting states that have signed the Fourth Geneva Convention to an extraordinary meeting to discuss human rights violations in the occupied territories. Israel has threatened retaliation.
But while Europe is tentatively finding a voice in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, silence reigns across the Atlantic. The White House appears paralysed, afraid to appear out of sync with world opinion but more afraid still of upsetting Israel and its powerful allies in the US Congress.
Now there is an additional complicating factor. The Israeli public, due to elect a new Israeli government in three months time, increasingly regards the US role as toxic. A poll this month found that 52 per cent viewed President Barack Obamas diplomatic policy as bad, and 37 per cent thought he had a negative attitude towards their country more than double the figure two years ago.
BDS
King_David
(14,851 posts)LOL
That's a vanity site.
That's not a source anyone takes seriously.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)But have at it...
King_David
(14,851 posts)Please use discretion when referencing obviously biased or factually questionable material. Vanity websites are generally not as credible as the New York Times, the Washington Post or the UK Guardian and are likely to be locked. A good rule of thumb is to ask yourself is the author readily identifiable and likely to be cited by the mainline world press or encountered in an alternate format (mass-published book, academic journal, newspaper article, radio or TV show).
Mondoweiss?
LOL
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Weak sauce.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)at running away from the OP.
King_David
(14,851 posts)I laughed at the fact YOU posted that.
LOL
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)of comedy.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Funny how all those slip past your radar. Wonder why.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)That makes Mondoweiss worse than just about any western Rightwing source that doesn't defend racist attacks against innocents.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Also a big fan of Uganda's "death for homosexuality" law. Marcus and Glick are constant supporters of an oppressive and violent occupation that has been brutalizing and terrorizing innocent people for very nearly five decades.
shira
(30,109 posts)...that actually kills gays for being who they are.
So in your opinion, Meshoe is still worse than Mondoweiss; is that correct? Or do they both suck equally?
Marcus and Glick don't support or defend brutal assaults or terror against innocents. Yeah, they're rightwing but there's no reason to smear them for stuff they don't believe. Mondoweiss actually supports and defends Hamas terror and brutality against innocents.
Of course to you, Glick and Marcus are worse than Mondoweiss.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And he's a defender of Uganda, which actually does kill gay people. And a supporter of anti-gay reeducation camps, which have led to plenty of suicides.
shira
(30,109 posts)I don't defend him now. I'm embarassed that I quoted that POS.
That said, you should be rejecting Mondoweiss and friends just as you do Meshoe b/c Mondoweiss is at least as bad or worse than Meshoe.
But you can't do it.
Why the double-standard?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)However, I think it's beyond fucking stupid that you'll suck pap off of Sheldon Adelson's finger at israel Hayom, and cite bullshit figures from UNwatch and palWatch, throw us articles from Meshoe, and Marcus and Glick, and such lovely right-wing hellholes as the Algemeiner and Gatestone Institute, but then get your pants in a wad if someone else cites mondoweiss.
Mondoweiss is at least as credible, if not more so, than any of those.
No go back to your "Man of God" and his gay-hating reeducation camps. Take John Hagee and his Zionists of America "Humanitarian of the Year" award with you.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)hamas the terrrorist organization is? That's pretty pathetic.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Except for Israel are among the very worst backward homophobic countries the world has known - worse than Russia
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)that gets completely ignored around here.
shira
(30,109 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)and pretend it's not happening because if Israel isn't responsible for it or can't be blamed for it, it's not happening. And yet they wonder why they truly are a fringe constituency.
shira
(30,109 posts)....be held responsible for their actions against Gazans. Same WRT Abbas in the W.Bank.
Ergo, no criticism of Hamas or the PA on these matters.
It's best to defend, whitewash, and explain away everything they do to their own civilians. That's moral and just.
Why can't we stupid Liberals understand this? It's so simple...
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)so freeking tiresome. They have no idea how ridiculous it sounds - twisting themselves into knots in order to make hamas not the terrorist scum they really are.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)but I guess that's not saying much. Anything anti-Israel is considered gospel around here. Thankfully it's a very teeny minority of Americans that agree.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Or candidates that would agree with the drek written there and am pretty sure not one of the writers or anyone espousing such views would be accepted to or allowed to remain on any of their campaign teams.
I'm also pretty sure if some of the views expressed by half the people on this group were made publicly by anyone working on any Democratic Party campaign they would be fired immediately and the candidates would distance themselves from such views post haste.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)It's pretty funny to watch those thinking the US is one second away from turning its back on Israel to align themselves with the hamas terrorists. It's like watching the birthers think they're one investigator away from getting Pres Obama hauled out of the white house for treason.
Mosby
(16,306 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 16, 2014, 11:31 PM - Edit history (1)
That's the TA100 in red, outperforming the DJIA over the last 12 months.
So much for all this "international isolation and BDS" bullshit.
King_David
(14,851 posts)But they can boycott Israeli Matzah at Pesach time. ( if they ever bought it)
GeoWilliam750
(2,522 posts)Put them both into US Dollars as any investor would have done, and you will see that the TA100 has underperformed the S&P 500 by about 6-7% per year for the last five years - including the most recent year when the USD has strengthened versus the ILS from about 3.52ILS per USD to about 3.92ILS per USD.
To say otherwise would be like claiming that buying gold in rubles was way more profitable than buying it in US Dollars.
Mosby
(16,306 posts)That's a five year comp showing maybe a 9 percent difference between the ILS and the dollar over the time period.
Try again.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)that 9% deval in currency terms more than makes up for the couple of notches difference between the two indices.
Mosby
(16,306 posts)a better comparison is with the dow jones industrial average, its a broader average than the s and p.
A 1.5 to 1.8 percent per year change in currencies doesn't change my main point, that the Israeli stock market numbers compared to the DJIA show that the Israeli economy is doing extremely well, despite "pundits" crowing about isolation and BDS successes.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)GeoWilliam750
(2,522 posts)There are 30 companies in the DJIA - thus, it is called the Dow 30. There are 500 in the S&P 500. Interesting idea of "broad". Also, the two indices mostly track each other over time.
The TA-100 has underperformed the S&P 500 by about 13-15pc over the last year in USD terms it is down nearly 10 pc.
Since the beginning of 2010, it has underperformed the S&P 500 by about 35pc in USD terms. that is about 7-8 pc per year underperformance for five years.
The relative performance statistics versus the DJIA will be similar. The TA -100 index has not performed well at all versus the U.S. indices.
Mosby
(16,306 posts)Last edited Fri Dec 19, 2014, 12:56 AM - Edit history (2)
First off the number of stocks in an index does not indicate how closely the index represents the broader market. It's standard thought that the DJIA is the broadest measure, followed by the SnP and then NASDAQ.
But let's look at how the TA 100 compares to the SnP:
The TA100 has beaten the SnP over the last decade by a healthy 25.84%, that's a 2.6% difference per year which obviates any currency differences and then some.
Those are the facts.
King_David
(14,851 posts)LOL
Israeli
(4,148 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Mosby
(16,306 posts)See the empirical data shows that your economy has been doing better that the United States economy for more than a decade.
That doesn't mean that there aren't problems that need to be dealt with like wages and housing, but overall the Israeli business sector has done extremely well, especially compared to most European business sectors.
shira
(30,109 posts)...and a peaceful settlement between the sides, with secure and recognized borders.
Supporters of this UN bid - whether they know it or not - are calling on Israel to end the occupation no matter the cost. This bid will lead to war.
Everyone knows Palestinian terror factions will become way more emboldened than ever before to attack Israelis from a better vantage point.
More war, great. Let's all support it.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The occupation has to end. There will be war until that happens.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)the most extreme elements of Hamas. To reward that group for its terrorist attacks on Israel is cowardly and immoral.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Remove the settlements, ALL OF THEM, and get out of the West Bank.
Recognizing the Palestinian state will only strengthen moderate Palestinians and marginalize the Hamas lunatics.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Any suggestion for a compromise there?
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)There is room for compromise, but that diminshes by the day as the Israelis settle there.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That could be contentious.
shira
(30,109 posts)....from offers by Israel that give them nearly everything they're demanding.
Sure it will. Do u know what Hamas does to moderates? The PA as well.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The Israelis have NEVER come close to offering a reasonable deal to the Palestinians. The Israelis always demand land in the West Bank, control over Palestinian airspace, totally unacceptable "security" concessions, etc.
shira
(30,109 posts)....they were demanding.
Not good enough?
Then they shouldn't have rejected both offers w/o so much as a counterproposal.
You'd never see the Kurds or Tibetans doing the same thing.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Israel has no right to take other peoples land and then negotiate a deal based on that stolen land.
Likewise, don't speak for others peoples as if you would know what they would negotiate.
And I guess that you really didn't factor in that you just compared Israel with China in terms of hostile occupying powers.
shira
(30,109 posts)And what, pray tell, makes the W.Bank or Gaza exclusively Palestinian land? Point me to the evidence please.
I'll save you some time. There's nothing that makes the W.Bank or Gaza exclusively Palestinian land.
We both know the Kurds and Tibetans wouldn't walk away from a deal that gives them practically everything they want.
The Palestinians have done that multiple times.
What's the difference b/w the Palestinians vs. the Kurds and Tibetans?
Nope, you just made that comparison yourself.
Israel is nowhere near as hostile as China. The reason why Tibetans don't fight back is because they know what China would do in response. Real, genuine Genocide. Not the pretend kind Israel haters talk about.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)that certain DUers have WRT other people's land.
I'll save you some time. There's nothing that makes the W.Bank or Gaza exclusively Palestinian land.
The rhetoric above is nothing less then expansionist, colonial garbage wrapped in the trappings of apartheid.
I would love to see the sad expression on your face when Israel is finally booted from the Palestinian territories.
King_David
(14,851 posts)And some parts of a East Jerusalem as it has from Gaza and Sinai before.
But they will never be booted.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)use that language when they see the writing on the wall.
shira
(30,109 posts)I know you won't like them, but here are some actual FACTS for you:
1. There still exists International Law stating Jews have a right to settle everywhere west of the Jordan River (including the W.Bank and Gaza).
2. Palestinians never had sovereignty in any part of that region. Ever.
3. There exists NO International Law stating that everything outside the '67 borders is Palestinian Land. Especially not UNSCR 242 which doesn't even mention the Palestinians.
4. UNSCR 242 implies that the land is disputed, as negotiations have to be held in order to mark borders that must be SECURE and RECOGNIZED. They cannot possibly - in any way - be secure or recognized without a peace deal.
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You'll probably deflect from all this like some juvenile middle-schooler rather than attempt to discuss.
Where am I wrong?