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Sat Dec 20, 2014, 11:31 AM

 

The hand that holds the status quo together

http://972mag.com/the-hand-that-holds-the-status-quo-together/100270/

The Palestinians put forward a Security Council resolution calling for the end of the occupation by 2017. The Obama administration, which has supported essentially every Israeli policy toward the Palestinians, has promised to use its veto power.

The Kingdom of Jordan on Wednesday submitted a resolution draft to the United Nation Security Council, which calls for the establishing of a Palestinian state as well as a deadline for the occupation: 2017, two years from now. The proposal, which could be voted on at any time, was drafted by the Palestinian Authority in the aim of breaking the diplomatic impasse in efforts to establish a Palestinian state.

According to reports, should the Obama administration vetoe the resolution, the Palestinians will join dozens of international agencies, including perhaps the International Criminal Court – a move that may allow the court to hear future charges against Israeli officials.

The United States opposes the Palestinian motion. The Israeli media reported yesterday that Secretary of State Kerry informed Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Palestinian Authority that the U.S. will veto the resolution should it come to a vote. It seems that the Americans also object to a more modest resolution proposed by the French government. The French proposal is said to put forward several parameters for a final-status agreement, setting a two-year deadline for negotiations.


A vote against a Palestinian state is a vote for continued state-sponsored apartheid. Apparently, the United States is not interested in a peaceable solution, IMHO. It appears that it just wants to help Israel continue with its illegal occupation.

I wonder why.

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Arrow 35 replies Author Time Post
Reply The hand that holds the status quo together (Original post)
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2014 OP
oberliner Dec 2014 #1
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2014 #2
shira Dec 2014 #6
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2014 #35
sabbat hunter Dec 2014 #17
azurnoir Dec 2014 #3
sabbat hunter Dec 2014 #7
azurnoir Dec 2014 #12
sabbat hunter Dec 2014 #15
azurnoir Dec 2014 #18
King_David Dec 2014 #21
King_David Dec 2014 #9
azurnoir Dec 2014 #10
King_David Dec 2014 #13
azurnoir Dec 2014 #14
King_David Dec 2014 #19
King_David Dec 2014 #20
azurnoir Dec 2014 #23
King_David Dec 2014 #24
azurnoir Dec 2014 #25
King_David Dec 2014 #26
azurnoir Dec 2014 #27
King_David Dec 2014 #28
azurnoir Dec 2014 #29
King_David Dec 2014 #34
King_David Dec 2014 #32
azurnoir Dec 2014 #30
King_David Dec 2014 #33
Scootaloo Dec 2014 #22
azurnoir Dec 2014 #31
azurnoir Dec 2014 #4
sabbat hunter Dec 2014 #8
azurnoir Dec 2014 #11
sabbat hunter Dec 2014 #16
shira Dec 2014 #5

Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 11:38 AM

1. The Kingdom of Jordan

 

How is it still OK that there are kingdoms where an unelected monarch passes power down hereditarily?

It is also strange that the friends of Palestinians around the world are not up in arms about the systematic discrimination against the several million Palestinians living in Jordan.

Half the population, in fact, is Palestinian - yet only a tiny fraction (less than 3 percent) of the Parliament are Palestinians.

Especially considering what a close ally of the US Jordan purports to be.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 11:47 AM

2. Answers...

 

Last edited Sat Dec 20, 2014, 02:11 PM - Edit history (1)

How is it still OK that there are kingdoms where an unelected monarch passes power down hereditarily?

It's not OK. I would like to see Democracy bloom everywhere…perhaps someday even in Israel.


It is also strange that the friends of Palestinians around the world are not up in arms about the systematic discrimination against the several million Palestinians living in Jordan.

We are. It's about letting the Palestinians come home from their Nakba from the Israeli expulsions. Israel stands in the way of that.

Half the population, in fact, is Palestinian - yet only a tiny fraction (less than 3 percent) of the Parliament are Palestinians.

If Israel would let the Palestinians come home…at least to a Palestinian state, free of Israeli aggression and illegal settlers, then there would be no kvetching about the Jordananian political system.

Especially considering what a close ally of the US Jordan purports to be.

Israel says that it is a close ally of the USA and look at the horrible state of affairs that it is allowed to visit on the heads of the captive Palestinian population every day.


Poor, ober. You should look closer to home instead of complaining about the eventuality of a Palestinian state: free from Israeli aggression.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 05:16 PM

6. What a load...

 

Last edited Sat Dec 20, 2014, 10:37 PM - Edit history (1)

It's not OK. I would like to see Democracy bloom everywhere…perhaps someday even in Israel.

Then start with Gaza and the parts of the W.Bank under PA control.

Where are you when Palestinians are virtually crying out for help against their thuggish scumbag PA/Hamas rulers?

We are. It's about letting the Palestinians come home from their Nakba from the Israeli expulsions. Israel stands in the way of that.

No you're not. You're silent on Palestinian oppression when Israel cannot be blamed.

Any time Lebanese Apartheid is mentioned, you claim that's an example of colonial Israeli Apartheid.

You won't ever say a word about that.

If Israel would let the Palestinians come home…at least to a Palestinian state, free of Israeli aggression and illegal settlers, then there would be no kvetching about the Jordananian political system.

There won't be any kvetching from you about Palestinians being oppressed by either Hamas, the PA, Jordan, or Lebanon.

Just as there's none now.

You'll let them rot.

Israel says that it is a close ally of the USA and look at the horrible state of affairs that it is allowed to visit on the heads of the captive Palestinian population every day.

That's double-talk for Israeli self-defense being illegal in any way against terrorist aggression (which you actually defend by calling it self-defense and fighting back).

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Response to shira (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 28, 2014, 01:53 AM

35. Oh, you are so funny when you are out of your depth.

 



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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 01:09 AM

17. only 20%

of the citizens of Israel are Arab. They generally do not vote for the Arab parties, that is why they only have 3% of the seats. It would be nice if more of the center-left parties had arab candidates on their member lists though.

If ALL of the people who claim to have been expelled from Israel (including their descendants) came back to Israel, it would be the end of Israel and the beginning of a single state of Palestine. Not to mention that only about 1/3rd of the original people were actually forced to leave by Israeli forces.

the other 2/3rds were either told to leave by arab commanders on the ground or left on their own.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 02:35 PM

3. Queen Rania is Palestinian and Jordan is 1 of 44 current monarchies along w/Sweden, Norway, the UK

Belgium, Spain, and the Netherlands; all of which including Jordan are constitutional monarchies, in fact most of the 44 are constitutional monarchies as opposed to absolute monarchies

In the case of Jordan at least 150 of the parliamentarians are democratically elected so there may be some other factors, but your concerns are noted

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_sovereign_monarchs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Rania_of_Jordan

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 11:21 PM

7. Jordan is a constitutional monarchy

in theory. But unlike other constitutional monarchies (like the UK, Sweden, etc) King Abdullah II has broad sweeping powers, including the ability to rule by decree. He holds both executive and legislative powers. The lower house in their parliament cannot initiate laws, only approve/reject ones that the king proposes. He appoints all 75 members to the upper house, and they must have been members of the government or military (ie men loyal to the King)

So I would not really consider Jordan a working democracy, as the power is really centered on the King.

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Response to sabbat hunter (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 12:31 AM

12. yes Jordan is a constitutional monarchy

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 01:04 AM

15. but in name only n/t

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Response to sabbat hunter (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 01:42 AM

18. with 150 democratically elected Parliamentarians

and 75 appointed ones

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 07:06 AM

21. So you are trying to tell us that The Kingdom of Jordan is a democracy ?

LOL



Really?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 11:48 PM

9. Jordan's King is a dictatorial monarch

Unlike all the other democratic monarchies you mentioned.

There is absolutely no comparison.

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Response to King_David (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 12:28 AM

10. echo's of those who claim Arab Democracy is an oxymoron

but I'm sure you're not one of those right?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 12:43 AM

13. No idea what you talking about

But I'll grant you there are as many Arab countries that are democracies as there are Arab countries with equality of their LGBT populations.



Jordan is not a democracy nor is Saudi Arabia , both run by dictatorial Monarchs.

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Response to King_David (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 12:50 AM

14. I' sure RDO thanks you for the kick oh Jordan legalized being Gay in 1951 BTW

more than 30 years ahead of Israel

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 06:42 AM

19. Jordan is a dictatorship and its pathetic for anyone on DU to tell those people that they live in

That they should settle for anything less than total freedom because it jives with someone's political beliefs about the Jewish State.

Jordan is a tin pot dictatorship, the King should be defrocked and the Jordanians should be allowed to taste freedom like they deserve .

Who are you to tell them to settle for some right wing anti- progressive monarchist dictatorship ?


Jordan's elections will not and cannot be democratic – they must be boycotted
Khalid Kamhawi

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/23/jordan-elections-democratic-boycotted


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Response to azurnoir (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 06:53 AM

20. So what ? Russia did too ....Why should Gays in Jordan tolerate discrimination?

And be satisfied with no rights because some "progressives" in the west have decided that they should shut up about their lot in life because it doesn't jive with their AntiZionist views?

Do Jordanian Gays not deserve human rights because some "progressives" say
Oh Jordan "legalized being gay".

Well so did Russia legalize being gay.Fuck Russia and all the Homophobic Middle East states and territories .






These backward countries and territories who discriminate against Gays such as Russia and Jordan and Gaza and Palestine may be ok with you but it's certanly anything but democratic or progressive or left wing--- it's extreme right wing hateful homophobia.

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Response to King_David (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 08:24 PM

23. actually in some ways Jordan is quite similar to the US

Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, and Utah have yet to repeal or strike down their state's sodomy laws, although these are unenforceable since the US Supreme Court ruling.

Since September 20, 2011, gays, lesbians, and bisexuals have been able to serve openly.[78] Transgender and intersex service-members however are still banned from serving openly, due to Department of Defense medical policies which consider gender identity disorder to be a medically disqualifying condition.[79]



There is no federal statute addressing employment discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity. Protections at the national level are limited.

Housing discrimination refers to discrimination against potential or current tenants by landlords. In the United States, there is no federal law against such discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity, but at least twenty-one states and many major cities have enacted laws prohibiting it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_States#Anti-discrimination_laws

sexual orientation and gender identity were added to the hate crimes list via the Matthew Shepard act which was passed as a rider of the national defense bill

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard_and_James_Byrd,_Jr._Hate_Crimes_Prevention_Act

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 08:28 PM

24. The USA is a democracy, Jordan is a dictatorship

A homophobic dictatorship at that.

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Response to King_David (Reply #24)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 08:50 PM

25. Jordan is a constitutional monarchy with 150 democratically elected official and 75 appointed ones

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 09:06 PM

26. They have "elections " in Iran too and Zimbabwe

And they have a Municipal vote in Saudi Arabia .... And Gaza too once ...Jordan is in good company .

All Great Democracy's


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Response to King_David (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 09:16 PM

27. thanks you answered my orginal question about the Arab Democracy is an oxymoron set

King_David
26. They have "elections " in Iran too and Zimbabwe

View profile
And they have a Municipal vote in Saudi Arabia .... And Gaza too once ...Jordan is in good company .

All Great Democracy's

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113490599#post26

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 09:25 PM

28. Google Zimbabwe and Iran



But if you want to talk about Arab countries that are democratic... Please name one .

You can use Google if you want or call a friend....

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Response to King_David (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 09:28 PM

29. Google Saudi Arabia and Gaza :)

but your commentary here speaks for itself

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 10:17 PM

34. What ?

You actually think Saudi Arabia or Gaza are Democratic?

How about North Korea ?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 10:11 PM

32. Echo posts are difficult to read

Can you rewrite it without the echo please.

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Response to King_David (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 09:29 PM

30. BTW you do understand the difference between a democracy and a constitutional monarchy, right?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 10:12 PM

33. Canada is a constitutional monarchy and democracy

Jordan on the other hand is a dictatorship.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 07:17 PM

22. Oberliner uses deflection! It's not very effective n/t

 

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 09:38 PM

31. Ya but Jordan has long been a target of the so called Pro Israel set

mainly anything to denigrate the fact that Jordan has given citizenship to millions of Palestinians well except for when it is used as Jordan is Palestine that is

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 03:29 PM

4. There is no question as to the support role the US plays in Israels settlement enterprise

none the wheel spinning negotiations, and diplomatic talks can change that single fact, Israel's occupation of the WB would have ended long ago but for US interference

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 11:22 PM

8. the occupation of the wB

is legal under international law. The settlements on the other hand are not.

There is a difference between the two.

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Response to sabbat hunter (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 12:30 AM

11. I did not claim the occupation was illegal I pointed out it would not be possible without

without the US's support

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 01:05 AM

16. I replied to the wrong person

I meant to reply to Daneel

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Original post)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 05:09 PM

5. Again with Israel's "illegal occupation"? You were just set straight on that crap....

 

Why repeat what you know to be false?

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