For transparency sake.

[William769]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=thread&address=10023422027&alert=90#post90

[Behind the Aegis]

1. put me down for $20 on 3-3.

[William769]

2. It went to Admins, past 24 hours.

I won't take you bet though. I have lost enough money as it is on these.

[Behind the Aegis]

3. There are several more in that odious thread that should get axed.

Oh well.

[Sentath]

4. Don't look to me for insight,

I hid the post before it had any replies ( :

[MNBrewer]

5. I hadn't looked at that thread

It appears to be minority-discrimination-er-than-thou flame bait.

[uriel1972]

6. Arrrrgh the "Minorities can't be racist" comment...

Redefining racism as belonging only to people in power. Then that one tells people to do research. I think they should research the history of "race" relations. It's complex and often downright nasty and it ain't comprised solely of demonic white people and angelic minorities.

There is only one "Race" of humanity the Human Race. There is more genetic difference within ethnic groups than between them. And speaking of ethnic groups that's pretty shaky too. Always someone has different ideas about who does and doesn't belong.

Here's the tip "white" people are no more homogenous than "black" people.

[theHandpuppet]

9. I think its the common history...

... that black Americans share that other immigrants to this country do not. Whites may have arrived here as exiles, landed gentry, indentured servants, explorers, religious pilgrims, et al, but black Americans arrived here but one way -- as slaves. And it didn't matter if your people were the lowest of the low back in the home village in Europe, if you were white you still had a higher standing than the noblest of Africans.
I can't begin to understand that experience and with the persistent evil of racism still rearing its head at every turn, it's hard for me to take umbrage at even misdirected anger. As some heterosexuals seem blind to the privileges to which they were born, it's damned hard sometimes not to lash out because no one knows, not really, what it's like to be GLBT unless that's the skin you wear every day. Being black and GLBT? How many fronts can you fight and still maintain your bearings?
Anyway... I'm a bit of a hothead myself (understatement) so there are those occasions when I believe I recognize an outburst of anger as a scatter-shot borne of sheer frustration, or even deep-seated despair and hopelessness. I thought I caught a glimpse of that within the thread in question so I backed off. I could be wrong and though the target of the OP's anger may seem misdirected, even offensive, those feelings are still genuine to that person. What I have to do is get past my defensive reflexes in order to see clearly what can bring us together. If we don't share a common ground we must find a common direction -- forward. But that's solely my thoughts on this subject. It's way too late at night and I'm probably not making much sense right about now. G'night, all.

[uriel1972]

10. Truly...

That's what makes me angry, we as a species have to get our collective crap in order and racism and sexism and all in group, out group crap is making it harder.

Pissing each other off is not helping. We should be looking at the people in power not as "whites" as not all are, but as a small group of people who have an EXTREME proportion of the worlds wealth and look at that injustice.

Economic injustice keeps us all down and the divide and conquer works all to well. By not recognizing our own prejudices, be they racism or sexism or whatever we do ourselves a disservice and make our task all that harder.

That's what makes me angry and frustrated. That arrogant ignorance, or ignorant arrogance. Take your pick

[theHandpuppet]

11. Amen to that

I was exhausted last night when I posted but had a hard time falling asleep just thinking about this subject. Of course, there was an important aspect to all of this that came to me as I was mulling the reasons behind the outburst of anger, especially that directed at LGBTs. When I thought about, just what was happening during the time we were celebrating some victories in our own struggle for equality? Well, women's rights were being slapped around by RW nutbag legislatures in Texas and North Carolina, having already been successfully attacked in states such as Virginia and North Dakota. Black America was reminded once again of American injustice and intrinsic racism via the Trayvon Martin travesty.
Even as we were posting celebratory threads full of smiling, happy couples and rejoicing in some hard-fought victories, that could not be said for those whose civil rights seem to be eroding, not progressing. Juxtaposition the photo of a smiling GLBT couple celebrating their marriage vows to the pics of Trayvon's grieving family. That must be damned hard to deal with and for many, difficult to comprehend. While we're making progress in the fight for GLBT equality, why are other oppressed minorities suffering such setbacks? I have an inkling about why that may be so but I could also be totally off base here, so for now I'd rather here what others have to say about it.
By comparison, the GLBT community has made greater strides towards equality and justice in the past 25 years than black America over that same span of time, perhaps more than they have gained in the past 150 years. Even now old Jim Crow laws are being repackaged, affirmative action attacked, hate groups are flourishing or being resurrected. Why should any black person in America feel hopeful that the long battle for true equality and justice is just around the corner? We GLBTs at least have some glimpse at the light at the end of that tunnel. The election of Obama to the Presidency seems to have created a backlash that, ironically enough, may prove to be a setback for civil rights.
Again, that is not to say an outburst of anger at this sorry state affairs is rightly directed at the GLBT community. As I pointed out earlier, some of that may be due to timing. Yet, all too often the scenario I've described becomes a battle among factions. Those who believe they have no chance for a seat at the table of power end up fighting for the crumbs that fall from that table. I'm sure this pleases to no end those who have enjoyed and exploited their power over us through the centuries. The last thing they want is for all people to unite in a battle for equality and justice but until we do just that, recognizing the true, common enemies of that goal, we will not succeed.
Enough for now...

[Creideiki]

15. I know. It reminds me of something.

Oh, yeah, that's right. November 2008.

Happy people celebrating our first African-American President while Californians voted to relegate their neighbors in same-sex relationships to second-class status.

And also, there were a lot of people, myself included, who were outraged at the stripping of voting rights while relieved at the validation of same-sex relationships--at least in part.

[Creideiki]

14. You do know that that isn't quite true, right?

I mean, there were definitely those who were stolen and used inhumanly.

However, others came of their own volition after that period.

Not that that excuses the inhumane period, but President Obama's father, for example, came after that period of his own free will.

[theHandpuppet]

16. I should have been more specific

I was speaking of colonial times, when the first waves of immigrants came to this country. Hence my reference to indentured servants, landed gentry, etc. There were very few "free blacks" during that time, mostly ex-slaves freed by manumission.
A ban on the importation of slaves to the U.S. was implemented long before Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation but by that time millions of African slaves had already been shipped to the colonies. These slaves and their descendants could obtain freedom by one of only a few ways -- buy purchasing it, by escape or as I stated earlier, by manumission. Even "free blacks" were subject to kidnapping.
This is the "heritage" of black America I spoke of, one I could not begin to understand though some of my own ancestors came here as exiles or to escape persecution, whilst other ancestors were here a few thousand years before the first pilgrim stepped off the ship -- a curious mixture of Scottish Covenanters, Prussian Jews and leaders of the native Patawomeck tribe.
So here we are in 2013, still mired in a society sick with racism, not to mention misogyny and homophobia. Of course there is anger, even rage. Sometimes that rage gets misdirected and that hurts, especially when the target finds its mark towards other oppressed minorities. But I am at a loss as to the appropriate response to that kind of anger -- a response in kind, I fear, can only perpetuate the kind of divisiveness which must be celebrated by those already in power.
It's more than a bit depressing to feel that we still haven't found a way to come together in our struggles for equality. I only wish I were a wiser person and knew how to act or react when these conflicts arise.

[Creideiki]

17. And I agree there are institutional barriers

And as a white guy, I frequently have to examine my own privilege.

The broadest part of black people in the US have incredible awfulness written in their histories. Then there are people swept up by others racism in that awfulness, such as the President.

The thing that really ends up hurting my soul is when members of one oppressed group decide to boost their egos by oppressing members of another group. Right now, every LGBT non-black person should be supportive of full equality toward their black neighbors, while every non-LGBT person who is not in the 1% should be supportive of full equality for their LGBT neighbors. (Repeat for every other oppressed minority.) In the end, the Oppression Olympics are a game set up for us by the people who actually have the power. It reminds me of the climax of the movie "War Games": "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?"

[theHandpuppet]

20. Well said

We all have a common goal and I believe those who profit most from what you called the "Oppression Olympics" are those who already occupy the seats of power. In fact, I think they deliberately seed such antagonism to keep us down and distracted. To me this was exhibited most blatantly in recent Presidential elections.
Problem is, how do we move forward from here? As I stated in another thread here in LGBT, after a long hiatus from DU I've returned only to find the situation worse than ever. There seem to be more clashes among the oppressed minorities, more blatant homophobia, and less coordinated energy directed at the true enemies of an egalitarian society.

[Libertas1776]

7. wow

every new day now on DU seems to be another step down the ladder deeper into the rabbit hole.

Aside from that homophobic tripe at the link which is a whole sad, vitriolic indictment unto itself, the whole kit and kaboodle about race is another favored lexiconic logjam masquerading as a pithy waxing philosophical about race relations that often rears its head on this site.

Being both gay and non-religious, the whole manner of assigning blame to a whole group of people for past deeds by earlier generations smacks of the bullshit religious doctrine of "Original Sin."

[theHandpuppet]

8. I was suprised the thread wasn't locked

That was some kind of nasty. I tried injecting a reasoned tone with a couple of posts but it became apparent that any cogent discussion was not the point of the thread, anyway -- at least IMO. Haven't returned to that thread in some time.

I think it's a shame that at a time when women, GLBTs and minorities are fighting tooth and nail for their basic civil rights against the well-funded crusades of the politically powerful right, some folks misdirect their anger out of frustration. Its understandable but also counterproductive. That old saying about "divide and conquer" surely rings true.

[joeybee12]

12. There are a couple people there I want to tell go phuck themselves

and their ignorance...but I won't, but you probably know who I mean.

[MNBrewer]

13. It's only going to get worse

We'll have wannabe "Inside the Beltway Policy Wonks" defending it, too.

[Zorra]

18. We should pin an OP up top, with all the homophobic we find that don't get hidden.

And the jury results as well, if we get them.

A homophobe wall of shame.

[QC]

19. That's an excellent idea.

[theHandpuppet]

21. Agreed

Sounds like that may be the most effective response to what's been going on around here.

[William769]

22. No argument from me.

[theHandpuppet]

23. Folks, this is an example of where some of that anger comes from

(Refer to my previous posts in this thread)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023458830

This is just as bad a some of the gay baiting threads we've all seen on DU but look how many people are biting -- on what is supposed to be a progressive forum! I'm just disgusted. We've all got to stick together, present a united front, and let certain posters know we won't be playing those games anymore. There's an awful lot of fishy stuff going on over there.