Help! Trying to keep my family from falling apart!!

[RamblingRose]

Our 20 y/o daughter came home from college when they closed the campus then finished her classes online from home even though she has an apartment at school she shares with one roommate

Her original plan for the summer was to go on a birthright trip but it was canceled due to Covid, so understandably, she is suffering from depression & anxiety, but she is taking full advantage of us and treating us like shit.

When we talked with her about seeing a therapist she said 'I'm an adult and you cant make me go.' My husband tried some other approaches but we keep hitting a brick wall.

If we take the 'tough love' approach and take her (our) car away & remove her from our family plan I'm afraid of what she may do.

I know there's no way she would agree to go to family counseling with us.

I keep reminding myself their brains aren't fully developed.

Therapist? Psychologist? Psychiatrist?

[mnhtnbb]

1. Time for some serious boundaries and options if she wants to remain living at home.

But that means you have to set them.

Sounds like a power struggle. As long as you are afraid of consequences of setting some standards, she will have the upper hand.

I'm sorry you're all going through this. Growing pains of what it means to become an adult are hard enough, but in the middle of a pandemic, sheesh.

My heart goes out to all of you.

[Laelth]

7. Boundaries?

Boundaries mean nothing when dealing with a person who suffers from a Cluster B personality disorder. Every boundary you erect will be crossed. Ask Donald Trump (who suffers from a Cluster B personality disorder, himself). There’s no law, no social norm, no tradition, and no ethical principle that he will not violate. If the young woman in question suffers from a Cluster B personality disorder, there is no hope. Maximum distance (no contact, if possible) is the only “boundary” that will work with such a person.

If the young woman in question DOES NOT suffer from a Cluster B personality disorder, then there is hope. Under that circumstance, I support the advice that you have offered, but I need to rule out the possibility of a Cluster B personality disorder first.

-Laelth

[cilla4progress]

2. What's a birthright trip?

Would it help for you to see a therapist, if you can't get your daughter to go?

[oswaldactedalone]

8. Apparently

it's a 10 day trip to Israel to bolster Jewish identity. The things you learn on DU.

[Proud liberal 80]

9. I just looked it up

It’s where a young adult (18-32) Jew takes a free educational trip to Israel. In order to qualify, one of your parents has to be Jewish or you have had to convert to Judaism....

My question is, can’t someone just lie and say that they converted to get a free trip to Israel?

[RamblingRose]

13. She was raised Christian but my father who was never a part of my life was Jewish so they must not

be too strict on who can qualify to go.

(She says it's a recruiting tool for the Israeli army)

[Newest Reality]

3. She...

She seems to have negated her statement with a nyah, nyah, you can't make me.

It does take time for them to pull their heads out of their rears and that may come with time. For now, any behaviors and acting out are being exacerbated by the conditions that everyone in your family is enduring in some way or another.

Try to remember that a family is a dynamic system, like one of those floating mobiles. Avoid making her the focus of the family gestalt. It takes all of you to tango and sometimes one member will act out the issues in the dynamic. So, so maybe don't point the finger at her and make it "her" problem. Let's fix her is not a good approach at all.

If she doesn't want to attend any kind of therapy, that is her choice. However, you or other members could go in for some counseling to see what's going on there. If you get a good counselor who does family therapy, then there may be tips and insights you can garner to adjust the FAMILY, not just her. She may then respond differently due to that.

Rest assured, it will pass and you might want to pull back a little and remember that you can only control your own states, reactions, responses and behaviors. This is a good time to evaluate your own skin the family game and assess your part in it.

[Laelth]

4. Was she an unruly, rambunctious child? Diagnosed ADHD?

I ask because my answer to your question depends entirely upon whether or not she has a Cluster B personality disorder. As many as 1 in every 8 persons do (including Donald Trump). It’s nothing to be ashamed of, but it certainly should not be ignored as a possibility.

If she has a Cluster B personality disorder, there’s nothing you can do for her that won’t hurt you more than it helps her. Your best option is to distance yourself from her as much as possible. People with Cluster B personality disorders are untreatable and incurable, imo. Their behavior only gets worse as they get older.

If she suffers from something else, there is hope. Medication may work. Therapy may help, and I would push for that if I were CERTAIN that a Cluster B personality disorder WAS NOT the underlying cause of her antisocial behavior.

I wish you well. I recognize that you find yourself in an awful situation, here.

-Laelth

[RamblingRose]

10. I'll have to read up on Cluster B personality. She's an introvert and growing up she generally

followed in her older sister's (3 years) shadow. She's very smart and has maintained her college scholarship.

She has trichotillomania, where she constantly picks the ends of her hair. She no longer cares about personal hygiene. Her room has 20+ cans of sparkling water, dirty dishes, empty food bags,... that I refuse to clean up.

Her freshman year of college she started vaping and is now addicted to nicotine. I think that is making things worse.

[Laelth]

12. Assuming no ADHD diagnosis, nor conduct disorder ...

That does not sound like a Cluster B personality disorder to me (although I have noted that they tend to be messy, lazy hoarders). There is hope.

I wish you well.

-Laelth

[Laelth]

14. For your consideration ... n/t

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13207374

-Laelth

[Cousin Dupree]

5. You and your partner should go see a therapist without her then. Hopefully will help you put a

plan in place and support you in following it.

[Phoenix61]

6. Is there another adult you could enlist?

Family friend? Parent of one of her friends? Often times young adults will take the exact same advice they ignored when their parents gave it to them from another adult. Maybe, you and your husband could go for a couple sessions to develop a plan on how to manage her behaviors?

[mopinko]

11. send her on a trip.

foot the bill. whatever it costs is cheap compared to the alternative, and you look like you are doing her a favor.
hell, buy her a camera.

[RamblingRose]

15. "on a one way ticket" as my mom used to say to me n/t

[mopinko]

21. wellll, maybe just think that. or say it under your breath.

let her think it was her idea.

[JenniferJuniper]

16. She's 20? It may sound cold, but

I'd tell her to shape up or leave. She isn't a kid and you don't deserve the abuse.

[Bayard]

17. Still sounds like a rebellious teenager,

With some depression thrown in. What was she like in high school?

As someone else said, you have to set the boundaries of acceptable behavior. If she refuses, tell her to go back to her apartment. You can be supportive, without being a door mat.

[RamblingRose]

19. She never got in trouble in high school and was involved in band, color guard, Odyssey of the Mind

choir, made good, grades, etc.. Your typical middle class white girl privilege


She's been drunk twice since she's been home. Threw up all over her mattress. I don't know who bought her the alcohol but they apparently delivered it to our house without us knowing since she has been good about quarantining.

She smokes pot too but that doesn't bother me like the drinking (her sister lives in FL & has a medical marijuana license).

I think it's all part of a vicious cycle??: vaping nicotine, alcohol & pot to counteract the nicotine, repeat....

She goes to a very big college, and being an introvert, I don't think she's found her niche yet. Sororities were only an option if they were willing to pay for it and that's not her style anyway.


My husband's had to refrain me from telling her to pack up her stuff and I'll drive her back to her apartment. He says to let him handle it. He's very non-confrontational and her personality is more in line with his. However, after the last several days I've about convinced him that we need to go to counseling and see how we can get her help. I did this by using a football analogy: we keep getting tackled, fumbling the ball, turnovers, getting sacked,... and we need a coach!!!

It was our 28th wedding anniversary yesterday but there was not much celebrating.

[delisen]

18. I do not recommend withdrawing health insurance

Her issues may actually be in the realm of physical health.

I would not recommend taking back car unless you have concern about safety.

Her family is at present her support system and she has already suffered losses she is having a hard time processing or dealing with in a positive manner. Further loss is likely to increase any negative feelings or any sense of worthlessness helplessness or inclination to despair.

Let her know that you love her but do not dwell on it.

You can let her know that her behavior is hurting you by stating so with your own "I" statements.

This provides the basic framework: we know you are hurting. We may be inadequate in our ability to help you. We love you. We will not add to your losses.

She may be willing to keep up with physical health issues and this can be helpful if she has access to a proficient women health practitioner.

Female bodies are complex and i have seen young women go through many years of very difficult emotional regulation development with things gradually coming under control.

She may have other experiences affecting her emotional behavior which she feels she cannot share with you. One thing to look for is whether she has someone with whom she can share .

[RamblingRose]

20. After she got passed out drunk, not knowing it was from drinking, my husband took her to the doctor

for a full physical. We told her it was not an option because we were very concerned about her health. We did not mention anything about alcohol or drinking.

I don't know the name of her birth control but I think it's a shot or something that lasts for several months (not Depo Provera) so I was wondering about that.

Her 23 y/o sister always puts us down on her HEPA (?) form or so she says. She will not put us down so that does make me mad about paying for her health insurance.

[lostnfound]

22. Outdoor experiences? Depending where you live..

I was just able to find one on one sailing lessons for a college kid.
Some hikes in wilderness, birdwatching...?
Even growing a garden together?
Being immersed in the woods is one of the best mental health things you can do as a young person.

[hunter]

23. I put my parents through bloody hell and had many fine adventures along the way.

Even at the point my parents and grandma decided I shouldn't be homeless and hungry, weeks after I'd punched my dad in the face and vanished, I decided I deserved to be homeless and hungry and I was pretty damned good at that.

My low point was living in my car in a church parking lot. The police didn't accept me and my broken car parked on the street so I pushed my car to the church.

The good people of the church tried to save me but I wasn't having any of it.

Maybe I owe my salvation to the manager of the Taco Bell. She knew I was there scarfing down abandoned food but she didn't hassle me.

There's no fucking bullshit metaphor here. I was a crazy guy living in my car in a church parking lot and eating trash at Taco Bell.

Nowhere to go but up.

"Tough Love" probably would have killed me. Fortunately my parents were never that sort. I always knew I had a place to simply be with my family, however bad I screwed up, no strings attached.

I quit high school and got kicked out of college twice.

It took me a longer than most but I eventually graduated with a respectable degree from a great university and my baby boomer life hasn't been a flaming catastrophe overall.