Looking for bread help....

[daleanime]

my no salt Honey-wheat bread is almost there. Just needs a little more lift and to be a little more 'chewy'?

2 1/2 cups white flour
1 1/2 cups wheat flour
3/4 cup corn flour
1/3 cup olive oil
1/4 cup honey
1 Tbsp onion powder
1 3/4 cup warm water
1 Tbsp white vinegar
5/16 oz active dry yeast

Toss in to bread maker

If anyone has an idea on how to get any improvements in texture or favor I would appreciate it.

[hippywife]

1. I don't use a bread machine, so...

not sure how this would work out when using one, but when I make the Ain5 bread recipe, it calls for 6.5 total cups of AP flour, but I sub bread flour for 4 cups and semolina for one cup, leaving the rest either all AP or a mix of AP and whole wheat, depending on what I'm making it for and/or the husband's request.

Because of the manner in which it's baked, I end up with a nice crust and a tender but slightly chewy crumb.

[daleanime]

2. Maybe that's it....

I'm trying to make do with all-purpose flour. I get a good crust, but not really the chewyness that I want. Sandwiches tend to fall apart. Maybe I need to bite the bullet and upgrade the flour.

[Major Nikon]

3. Chewyness depends on gluten development

Gluten is developed by either more kneading or longer ferment and proofing times. The later solution also allows for more lift in the bread (up to a point) due to more and larger CO2 bubbles forming in the dough.

The first thing you might try is adjusting your bread machine and/or recipe to allow for a longer ferment time. When using AP flour, the dough should triple in volume before it's formed into a loaf and proofing begins. So if your dough is already tripling in volume, you can use less yeast and a longer ferment to increase gluten development. If your dough is not tripling in volume, just adjust the machine to allow for more rise time.

[daleanime]

7. Good information, I'll check to see if I can make some adjustment to it.

Thanks.

[Major Nikon]

9. Most bread machines have a custom program feature

If so, you should be able to adjust the times of the various stages.

[Nac Mac Feegle]

4. oil /shortening impede gluten development

I'd decrease the olive oil and use some bread flour. Try cutting the oil in half. My baguette formula only uses 2 teaspoons for a batch that gives four full loaves.

[daleanime]

6. If I do, should I increase the water also?

[Nac Mac Feegle]

11. the oil doesn't add any moisture to the dough

It's a dry ingredient. The flour change shouldn't have any effect either.

Whole wheat means that the bran is left on the wheat before milling, the shards of the bran are sharp, and cut the gluten fibers. At least, that's what one book said. I know I get less rise with WW when I use it.

You want to be careful when cutting the salt in a dough, you can get more rise, but the flavor suffers horribly without it.

[daleanime]

12. Thanks for the information....

yea, the favor does suffer. But I'm on a low sodium diet so not much I can do about that.

[Nac Mac Feegle]

14. potassium chloride

Salt substitute may be helpful. My wife uses it quite a bit, as she wants to cut her salt intake. A lot of misinformation about salt out there, though. You might just need to make sure you get plenty of water.

Research carefully.

[daleanime]

15. Con. Heart Failure....

sodium and fluid restrictions. 48 oz's of drink and 1500 mg of salt (but I find that I feel better when I keep my intake around 600-700). I have some salt substitute that I use very sparingly. It's surprising how much salt most food contains natural. Thanks for thinking about me.

Every day your feet meet the floor is a good day.

[Auggie]

5. You could try using bread flour ...

but at that ratio I don't think it would help much. Can you use the bread flour instead of the wheat and corn flour? Or use less?

Agree with Major Nikon about the fermentation/proofing time. You might want to try adding a tad more water too.

[daleanime]

8. Trying for more of a 'whole wheat' favor....

when you're cutting out salt, you look for taste in every thing you can. Definitely will be experimenting with some bread flour. Had problems with the loaf falling, that's when I started trimming the water back a bit. Began with two full cups. Thanks for information.

[Warpy]

10. I agree with the posters above that the gluten isn't being developed

If your machine doesn't have a longer kneading adjustment, especially, the easy fix is to substitute gluten flour for some of the AP flour. Start with 1/4 cup and check the results and tweak it up or down from there.

You can also increase proofing time to develop more rise once you've corrected the gluten.

Whole wheat flour takes a bit longer than white flour to activate properly. Corn flour has no gluten at all, which is why you might need to add just a bit to this recipe in a bread machine.

[daleanime]

13. Thanks, definitely got a couple things to try....

I'll pop a loaf in on saturday and see what happens.

[Sentath]

16. Looks like you're getting good advice so far

Have you thought about adding a little vital wheat gluten for both chew and lift?

Oh! And have you experimented with a little orange zest? Lots of people like what it does to homemade whole wheat breads. Don't need much either.

[daleanime]

17. Yes, I have, and thanks for some more....

it may take a few experiments, but I'm sure I'll get this worked out. Need to, breads a large part of my diet.


Hummnn, orange zest?