need metal-to-wood glue advice (or other ideas)

[Kali]

bought a cheaply made "wood" office chair. the "wood" is some kind of pine laminate. it is held together by bolts that screw into these little metal inserts that themselves screw into the wood. one arm keeps coming loose and when I go to tighten the bolts, they just back the little inserts out. I tried liquid nails household glue (because the kid I sent to the hardware store didn't get the regular liquid nails I had wanted) but it came loose right away. is there some other product that will bind to the metal well and also kind of seep into the wood grain rather than just stick to the surface? anything just surface-sticking comes right off as the wood is so light and cheap.

I have JB Weld in the house, but I don't think it is good for wood, is it? Anybody try gorilla glue? Should I stay with the original plan to use liquid nails? Other ideas for getting this thing to stay put?

here are some pix:

the parts in question




insert part way in




both inserts in




arm in place

[NYC_SKP]

1. I would go with a two part epoxy for wood. Not JB and not Gorilla Glue.

Though if faced with a choice, with wood, I'd go with the Gorilla Glue because it expands and JB doesn't.

JB is great for metals, not so much for wood.

[Kali]

3. hmmm

didn't even know there was epoxy for wood

I have seen that gorilla glue so many times but never tried it for anything. duck tape, silicon sealer, JB weld and baling wire are my main repair ingredients.

[Warpy]

2. I would probably fill the holes with plastic wood

and carefully screw those inserts into it. Then let it dry and cure for at least 48 hours before screwing the bolts back in.

And if that didn't work and I couldn't find bigger inserts and bolts at the hardware store that might work, I'd just say to hell with it and get a better chair.

[Kali]

4. ooh wood putty

is that what you are talking about? I think I might even have some somewhere around here. from back in 2000 when I sanded the floor and still haven't put the finish on it.

[NYC_SKP]

5. No. I disagree. Plastic wood is good as a filler, but not as a structural additive.

Trust me, two part epoxy specifically for wood or Gorilla Glue.

The more I think about it despite my original reply, the more I like the Gorilla Glue approach.

It really does kind of bubble up and fill in spaces, and the final product isn't too brittle or hard, has good tensile and compressive strength.

The caveat is that because it expands, be sure to use a clamp or strong tape for the 20 minutes it will take to cure.

Do it.

[Adsos Letter]

6. I agree with NYC_SKP on this one.

The Gorilla Glue should work well, and save you the smell and hassle of mixing a 2-part epoxy.

And, as NYC_SKP also noted, be sure to clamp them in somehow so that the expansion doesn't force them back out; however, I would give it the full 24 hours to cure before you try screwing the bolts into the inserts.

Patience is a virtue...or so they tell me.

[mopinko]

7. couple toothpicks will help.

if you can find wooden toothpicks any more.

[Kali]

10. Ok going to try that

finally had somebody pick some up yesterday. sigh. being without transportation and 20 miles from town sucks. although it does save money!

[Fumesucker]

8. JB Weld is just an epoxy with some fillers in it, it even sticks pretty well to glass

It rather looks like the problem is your holes have become conical, wider at the outside then the bottom so you are depending on the adhesion of the glue. What you want to do is open the bottom of the hole out so it's wider than the top part, once you fill that up with JB Weld and put the inserts in then more wood will have to tear out or the JB Weld will have to break for the inserts to come out again.

A drill about 1/4 the diameter of the hole put in at an angle several times around the bottom of the hole for maybe a 1/4 inch or so should give the glue something more to grab hold of. Work the glue into the holes thoroughly with a Q tip or something similar.

Make sure you put a piece of tape or something over the bottom of the insert or it may fill up with glue, particularly if you use that gorilla glue that expands, your glue is also likely to spill out unless you put the chair on its side with the holes more or less straight up.

What you really have is a case of poor design in the first place, that's a really high stress area if I understand you correctly, those inserts are being subjected to a rocking action rather than the straight pull they are designed for.

[Kali]

9. oh yes poor design AND made in China!

but it is hard to find reasonable priced wooden office chairs. I live in an old ranch house and use an old wooden kitchen table as a desk. a modern office chair looks so out of place. It is a cheap POS but I would like it to last for at least a year! I have already had to repair the shock absorber (with a PVC shim and baling wire, had to get a new right hand arm (under warranty) because it split out right away.

as to this current repair I like your advice and got some gorilla glue but here is the thing. those little inserts didn't pull out - they somehow come unscrewed out of their holes. when I dismantle the piece I have to physically screw them back into their holes, they don't just push in and out. the damage to the openings of the holes isn't from the inserts pulling out, it is from my using a pair of needle nose pliers to screw them back in. There must be some kind of official tool with reverse threads or something but I don't have one so I was just grabbing the insert by the very edge and trying not to ruin the internal threads for the bolts.

I don't quite understand the actual physics of them coming unscrewed ( ) because I can tighten the bolts down pretty good at first, then they loosen with use and trying to retighten them is when the inserts really seem to back out of the holes.

so I figured some kind of glue would be my next attack before maybe trying the next size up inserts and bolts as suggested above.

I have never used gorilla glue so this will be a first. the fact that it expands sound like it should get it to help hold better, especially if it sticks well to the metal.

thanks for the tip on using a bit of tape (duh, I would know that for plumbing why not here?)

[Fumesucker]

11. Put the bolt in the insert and an extra nut on the bolt and run it down against the insert

After you tighten the insert and the nut together you can then just use the bolt to screw the insert in, once you get it all the way in hold the bolt with one wrench and loosen the nut with another then just screw both of them out leaving the insert in place.

Another way to fix that would be drill the hole out even bigger and glue in a piece of dowel that size and then after it dries drill the dowel to the right size and screw in the insert, coat it with some glue when you put it in and hopefully it won't pull right back out. That's going to be a couple of fairly big holes though, if you don't already have the drills it could cost more than it's worth.

Get some Locktite thread locking compound and put it on the screws where they go into the inserts when you install the arms, let it sit for a while and they shouldn't unscrew again.

ETA: I'd tape the chair around the area of the repair too, that gorilla glue makes a bit of a mess if it expands too much, lot easier just to peel off the tape than scrape off the glue.

[Kali]

12. more good tips, thanks!

will get to work on this today (maybe, I should be doing paperwork instead of fooling around on DU)

no locktight around here at the moment, will see if I can get somebody to pick some up in the next day or two.

[Alorah]

13. So...

What became of the chair? Did the glue work? I have a table with the same problem and I'm trying to fix it. Please share.

[NMDemDist2]

14. we have fixed lots of cheap furniture with adding dowels

we'd use dowels with good ol' Elmers, let it dry then drill new holes.

hope it worked!

[LiberalEsto]

15. Forget the glue. Try Mr. Grip.

I've been using this for years and find it very helpful.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/8-Pieces-Mr-Grip-Screw-Hole-Repair-Kit-00158/202105579

[mbperrin]

16. Drill on through and put a T-nut on the backside.

Very quick and much stronger than these insert types.

[Kali]

17. update, such as it were

yeah. the POS sits just out of my view awaiting my motivation to try something else (and I thank you for the next couple of ideas)

I tried the gorilla glue - strange foaming stuff! and that worked for about a week, I would say. Then I got the next size up inserts and put them in without drilling the hole any larger - they were in pretty tight! they came right out when I tightened the new larger bolts. debating to try the glue again, and I bought some little L brackets I figured I could screw on the sitting side of the arm and seat. I also have access to bailing wire. the problem is, I am pretty mad at myself for buying it in the first place so I am in ignore mood.

that or I could remove the back and other arm so it could be an overpriced rolling stool

[avidphotog7]

18. update on the update

Kali,

Did you ever fix your chair? I have a dining room table with the same affliction, and reading through this old thread helped me avoid about 3 or 4 options that you've already deemed worthless. Was there ever a final verdict? If so, I'm hoping that it wasn't the L brackets, because that would be brutally ugly on the table that I have. Please tell me that you have good news for me... or are you sitting there reading this on "an overpriced rolling stool"?

[gopiscrap]

19. Welcome to DU

[janggeungulk]

20. Metal to Wood Glue

Gorilla glue is used for both metal to wood and [url= http://www.fevikwik.in/fixthis/34/bond-marble-or-metals.html ]Metal to Metal Bonding[/url] So it will be very helpful to you.

[jmowreader]

21. I am late to this question, but this is how to fix it once and for all

This is called a Tee Nut. Any hardware store either will or should have these things. Take all the JB Weld and wood putty and other weird shit you've already tried putting in the hole out, and bore all the way through the rim on the seat of your chair. Once you have a hole all the way through, stick a tee nut on the back side of the hole, put the bolt with a flat washer on it on the front side, and tighten the bolt. It will pull the spikes on the tee nut into the wood. Once the tee nut is flush with the wood, unscrew the bolt and repeat until all the holes are fixed. Then put your arms on.