So the neighbors went and got 2 pit bull pups

[Coyote_Bandit]

Before I say anything else let me say that the two best trained most obedient dogs I have ever seen were pit bulls. Each of them owned every AKC and UKC obedience title. Their owner was a highly skilled trainer that worked with the dogs.

That does not describe my neighbors. In the last 5 or 6 years they have managed to go through 3 dogs. One got out of the yard and was struck and killed by a car when the gate was left open. The other 2 apparently young healthy dogs (a doxie and a small mixed breed) just quietly disappeared.

Before they got the pits the wife expressed concern to me about crime in the neighborhood and indicated she wanted a menacing dog as a deterrent. Neither the police crime records or other neighbors are aware of the incidents she reported to me. I suspect she is trying to motivate her well-paid husband to move to a newer more fashionable neigjborhood. There are 3 children who live in their home including one under the age of 2. One of the children was supposed to be enrolled to train one of the pits. I suspect the male has not been neutered.

One of the dogs has become quite threatening. I have a rear entry garage and when I open and close my gate I am quite close to a snarling dog that literally knocks the fence pickets loose (neighbors do not want to cooperate in replacing the fence). I fear for my own safety, that of my own small dog (that I no longer leave unattended even briefly in his own yard), my yard guy and everyone else on my property. I always carry pepper spray in my yard and a small bullhorn. The local ordinnces are such that every dog is entitled to the proverbial one free bite before being considered dangerous.

I would like to find a non-toxic compound to spray along the common fence ln my yard and at my gate to keep the two dogs from approaching each other and to deter the menacing dog from approaching my gate. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions. My first thought is to mix citronella oil, castor oil and cayenne pepper and use a hose end garden sprayer to apply.

FWIW, this is a problm of irresponsible and inconsiderate owners. The dogs are also victims

[phantom power]

1. I doubt any smell is going to deter a dog in an aggressive frame of mind

That's unfortunate, it sounds like a textbook set-up for a dangerous incident.

[get the red out]

2. This is a bad situation

I also doubt that there is any sort of spray that would act as a deterrent if the dogs are that reactive, but it wouldn't hurt to try. Make sure your fence is in good shape. Keep watching out for your little dog.

These people sound like horrible dog owners. For two little dogs to just vanish like that..... And Pit Bulls aren't a guard dog breed either. If they wanted a dog to train (emphasize TRAIN) for that they should have gone with a German Shepherd, Doberman, or other traditional guarding breed.

[csziggy]

3. How about an electric fence?

Not the wireless fences where the dogs wear collars - one that will provide a physical barrier with a shock when the dogs hit it.

Like these - I am NOT recommending a brand, just an idea -
http://www.havahart.com/store/animal-repellents/ss-750rpx#desc
http://www.havahart.com/store/sister-products/electric-fencing/electric-fence-kits/k9kit#desc

[Curmudgeoness]

4. I suppose that I would try anything.

The spray probably will not work, but try it. I would keep an eye on the pickets of that fence, and at the slightest damage or problem, I would tell the neighbors to make sure it is fixed. Or I would do something to fix it on my side, since it is my safety that would be my concern.

Is it possible to become this dog's friend, by always bringing treats or biscuits to throw over the fence for him?

And if they have such a lousy track record with dogs, this may be a short term problem when these dogs also do not live up to their expectations, or their ability to cope with them.

[TorchTheWitch]

5. Oh man, this sounds like a disaster waiting to happen

Everything about these people says they're exactly the wrong kind of people to be owning any kind of larger breed of dog or probably any dog considering their track record. What is especially worrisome is the women expressing she wanted a "menacing" dog for protection. That means they'll actually encourage aggressive behavior making the dogs dangerous to not only the neighbors or anyone that goes to the house even without going inside (the mail carrier, sales persons, delivery persons, etc.) but the family themselves.

Just to be certain of the physical arrangement between you and your neighbors... do you share a yard fence with them that separately your two yards? I imagine so since you're looking into something that will keep their dogs from jumping up at the fence and acting aggressively. If this is the case, I don't think any kind of odor is going to keep the dogs from doing that. Their yard is their territory including their side of the fence (though to the dogs, they own the whole fence), and protecting territory is the biggest job a dog really has. Anything you spray on the fence would also either dissipate in time or wash off with rain or snow. How could you even apply it to the side of the fence those dogs are on? I suppose you could try it and see what happens, but I don't have very high hopes that it will work.

Someone else suggested electrifying the fence. That's probably a good idea, though a dog that is really focused would like need a pretty good zap to deter it. Then again, if this is a shared fence the neighbors have a right to object to its use if it effects their dogs or their kids or themselves. That could end up being a sticky situation, but you could try it and see what happens.

I guess all you can really do is try electrifying the fence and see if the neighbors object and if it works, keep going out with your dog when its in your own yard to try keeping it safe like you've been doing, and if you have the funds do whatever you can to secure your side of the fence. I'd do something to make a higher barrier so the dogs can't jump over, strengthen it so they can't crash through, and maybe dig down on your side to make a barrier they can't easily dig under to get into your yard. Maybe just some lengths of chain link fencing could do the trick especially if you double it, but not the cheap flimsy stuff but the really strong metal stuff. Home Depot, Lowe's and places like that have rolls of it in different sizes you can buy. Might not look all that attractive, but I think you're much more concerned about safety here, and I don't blame you a bit. But if finances aren't a problem you can also opt for building a nice looking strong high fence on your side of it.

I'd also start calling the police for every menacing thing the dogs do, so they start building a record of the dogs' behavior.

Wow, I really feel for you. How awful to feel threatened on your own property because of stupid inconsiderate neighbors! I have asswagon neighbors on one side of me, but at least I don't have any reason to actually fear them of fear for my dog because of them... their being so damn annoying is plenty. I mean, geez, you PAY for your yard and have every right to be able to enjoy it and your own dog to be able to enjoy it without being threatened by your neighbors or their menacing dogs!

[jtuck004]

6. I like suggestion in #4. When you do it, ask them for a sit, or their attention, to settle,

something. Take your time, but always get something for what you give them. Get them used to following your commands. Try "look", and "sit". After a time make it variable, never let them know when it is coming, but always ask for a sit, and respond with a "good boy" or "good girl", periodically reinforcing it with a good treat. Be patient, and know it might take a little while, but it is doable unless the dogs have a mental problem.

You might SERIOUSLY consider hiring a dog trainer (not from Petco or one of those - this is more serious than they typically handle - someone more along the lines of a certified animal behaviorist - http://www.apdt.com/petowners/ts/default.aspx - experienced at changing behavior, who can work from your side of the yard with behavioral techniques, and is willing to deal with a vicious dog - and tell them that the dog is mean up front - maybe a dolphin trainer from the zoo or someone like that, who is used to changing behavior without touching the animal. Not everyone who thinks they can will be able to help you, so you will have to learn from them and figure out if they are helping or not. If not, find someone else.

Use REALLY good food - hot dogs, chicken, beef chunks, something they really like. Make darn sure they can't get through the fence at you. Given a little time and patience, I suspect your odds are very, very good at being successful with this and you will have them eating from your hand soon. You never need to touch them to do this, btw. I used to practice on another dog that would try his "I'm gonna kill you" routine from behind a fence in another city. Didn't really take too long.

You may need to throw them a hot dog when they quit barking and settle a bit. When they bark, turn your back (if it is safe and they can't get through the fence). When they are, (or he is) quiet, toss another, with a "sit!" command (they don't get it before they sit, or at least start to). It's a little more involved than that, but don't reinforce bad behavior, reinforce what you want. It may be they are getting no attention, and they get attention when you are are scared, and that reinforces their continued bad behavior. You cannot be afraid of them. Hard, I know, but set that aside. Quit calling them pit bulls and start calling them and thinking of them as terrier mixes. (It sounds like they are too big to really be pit bulls anyway, so they probably are just mixed breed something). Regardless, they will begin to listen to you and trust you if you give them a reason to.

Try very hard to look at this as a clinical problem, and take the emotion out of it.

Don't wait for the owners to fix the fence. You already know they are irresponsible. Put something, wire, on your side. Supported by steel poles.

As far as the rest, I doubt that any of that is going to do any good. Know that dog aggressive and people aggressive are two very different things. If they are in fact dog aggressive they would go through fire to get to one. That said, just straight cayenne pepper might be the best. I doubt an electric fence that was anything short of a people stopper would help, and even then they might just see it as a booster - dogs are pretty impervious to a lot of things humans would find very painful.

If you aren't going to try to train them, the pepper spray might help, but bear spray would be better, if it comes to that. And keep a baseball bat or a gun (assuming it's legal and you know how to use one - and during an incident is NOT the time to learn) handy. The dogs are the victims here, that is correct, but that isn't going to be what you are thinking about if they are attached to your leg or shaking your dog. You want to feel for them, take care of them as you can, train them - but you can't let you or your dog or the yard guy or whoever get hurt.

Have you spoken to the neighbor about your concern? I realize they are irresponsible, and it might not do any good, but one never knows. If you have another neighbor or two that might be supportive, perhaps the two or three of you can think about how you might approach her without putting her on the defensive, which is easier said than done. And talk with a trainer beforehand, maybe offer to provide obedience training at the house? It's better than dying, or having a pissed off neighbor, I would think.

There is also the nuclear option - but know that it will start a war, because they will be defending their family members. That is to find out who insures the property and have an attorney send a letter to them, copied to the neighbors, putting them on notice of a potential lawsuit from the aggressive dogs. The insurance co might drop their homeowners insurance, and then they will be in trouble - and they will HATE you. and they will have to either get rid of the dogs or spend a lot of money incarcerating them in a proper kennel. You can imagine the results of that - it won't be pretty, and it might not make it better, could make it worse. And it will be ALL YOUR FAULT, according to them. Frankly, I would rather deal with the dog. But it is a possibility.

I would get a package of all beef hotdogs, and call someone for help in training you to train those dogs. And BE CAREFUL.

[Coyote_Bandit]

7. Thanks for the suggestions

Last edited Sat Nov 23, 2013, 09:58 AM - Edit history (1)

I cannot add wire fencing inside the existing fence without taking a jackhammer to my driveway in order to be able to put posts in the ground.

I had not considered contacting the homeowners imsurance company. Not sure how I would determine who to call.

I have seriously considered contacting child protective services since the neighbors do have young children.

I am a sole caregiver for an aging parent in another state. I certainly would not feel safe bringing that parent into my yard and home right now. However, that responsibility is such that I come and go a lot often spending several days at a time away from my own home. That means any efforts at trying to train the dog from my side of the fence would be sporadic and prolonged.

Maybe I'll start mailing my neighbors sales brochures for new housing additions. Two adults nd three children are living in a house of about 1700 square feet. I know the wife would like to move and the husband has a good job that should make that possible - although they would qualify for a bigger mortgage if the wife would use her medical training to get a job.

[avebury]

8. If you are successful in encouraging them to move, I just

hope that they take the dogs with them. If they do not fit in with the wife's vision of home life I hope that they do not abandon them at the house next door.

[Coyote_Bandit]

9. I am well acquainted with a local rescue group

Should hat happen I will see that they have an opportunity to be socialized, trained and adopted.

[roody]

11. Report to CpS is good idea. Start a

paper trail.

[roody]

10. Are you sure there is no legal recourse?

Another idea is to win them over with treats and your own training.

[Coyote_Bandit]

12. UPDATE

Seems the geniuses next door have decided to rehome the more aggressive of the two growing pit bull pups next door. First, he was offered to folks in the neighborhood who declined to take him in given his aggression and lack of socialization and training. Now the poor pup is available on Craigslist for free to a good home.

Poor dog. Still, I will be glad to see him move along. Pity it wasn't his humans who are very poor pet parents.

[CitizenLeft]

13. oh no... free dogs on Craigslist

Here's an article about that...

I pray he gets lucky and gets adopted by a responsible owner, or that an organization snaps him up and puts him into foster care so that he can get the training he needs.

I feel for you, I know you'll feel better when you and your dog and your parent will feel safe. Nothing worse than living in fear in your own home / yard.

[passiveporcupine]

14. I'm late coming to this thread, but

I have a couple of comments. For one thing, the electric fence won't help as a deterrant unless it's on the neighbor's side of the fence, and I'm pretty sure they would not allow that. Even though the more aggressive dog may be re-homed, you may still have issues with the other dog in the future. If you have a high privacy fence that the dogs can't jump, I'd suggest reinforcing all the pickets with deck screws (when ever I build fences, I always use screws), and if you already have screws in them, you may need to add some more if the fence is old, because even screws can loosen up in aged wood. The wood screws will hold the pickets more securely, so maybe the dog won't knock them loose any longer. I would be worried about loose pickets.

Also, have you tried talking to the neighbors about your concerns? Maybe they would be willing to work with you to make "friends" with the dog(s) so they no longer see you as a danger. If you are afraid of the dogs, they are probably picking up on that. And it sounds like you are. I hope you haven't been yelling at the aggressive dog, as that will only make things worse.

Good luck. I do hope they can find an appropriate home for the dog and that things calm down for you. Bad neighbor dogs are really not fun to live around...and you are right, it's not the dog, it's the people.