Do you allow your pet to decline treatment?

[Sanity Claws]

I have a 15 year old cat with kidney disease. A friend and I arranged to give him fluids twice a week. He always put up a struggle and hated being restrained while we stuck a needle in him to give him fluids. In the last couple of weeks, he struggled so hard, bit, and cried that we were unable to give him fluids.

He came to live with me about three years ago as a long-term foster and he never was the lap cat type. By nature, he is a bit irascible and for about the first year he was with me, he bit me on a regular basis.

I now consider him someone who prizes his autonomy and has decided to decline treatment rather than be constrained and poked with a needle.

I still question this in my mind. What would you do?

Would you ever consider your pet as someone who could decide to decline treatment rather than lose his autonomy?

BTW, I still give him anti-nausea medicine so that he can eat.

[bearsfootball516]

1. If they're young and don't really need the treatment and make it clear they're uncomfortable...

Then I think it makes sense to not do it.

But at 15 years old, with kidney disease and needing medicine just so he can eat, it sounds like it's reached the point that it might be best that he's put down. As a pet owner, it's the hardest decision you ever have to make.

[Sanity Claws]

3. I will have to put him down but I don't think it's time.

He enjoys his life enough to check out his food bowl and follow me around the house. He also sleeps on the bed curled up next to me.
If he got to the point where he stopped trying to eat, he started to hide, or he engaged in certain other behavior, then I will have him euthanized.

[zipplewrath]

2. They can't know

I always have trouble with the concept of treating animals that can't understand the purpose of the pain or fear that the treatment might generate. When a person is put through a painful treatment, they understand why. It avoids some of the trauma. But an animal doesn't really understand and it just becomes a regular abuse to them. If it is a short term treatment, it may be "worth it". But if this will become the constant of his life, I'm not sure the trauma is worth the treatment.

[Sanity Claws]

4. Thanks for your response

[bettyellen]

5. Have you tried warming the fluid first in a sink of hot water?

That and fine grade needles as well as son lessons made t much easier for me, and the cat improved dramatically after being given the IV. I just needed some lessons to do to better.

[Sanity Claws]

6. We have fine grade needles but perhaps finer grade is available

I'll ask the vet.

We did not warm the fluids. The bag of fluids was kept in a closet and the temp was probably 80 degrees. But that is colder than a cat's body temperature. I'll also raise this issue with the vet.

[bettyellen]

9. The warmth helps their comfort a whole lot! Terumo I think was the brand of needles recommended

To me they’re titanium or something and are narrower despite having the same flow rate as fatter needles, so less of a pinch. Also the better elevated the bag is in the beginning the better flow you get, but also you can have someone help and squeeze it- for the last cup or two squeezing the bag under your arm works well.
And since it’s just saline you don’t have to be that concerned about the dosage or frequency. I’d just treat them and love them up a lot after so they had good associations with the process. I’d go just a tiny bit warmer than her body temperature and she became much more comfortable with it. Totally safe, I’ve done it for years and know get techs that do the same.
Also all this is cheaper via the internet, the markups vets take are ridiculous.

[eppur_se_muova]

12. Yes, it's Terumo. Look for *thin-walled* needles; they can be as fine as 30 gauge.

(Larger number --> finer needle) Also, a shorter needle will offer less resistance to flow.

https://www.terumotmp.com/ProductDetails.aspx?categoryId=9&productId=138

[Hav]

7. The thing is, they don't know that you want to help them

Declining treatment in that regard would require for them to understand that they have to endure something uncomfortable to get better. I think most cats at any age would offer resistance. You can't take that as a sign that your cat gave up.

I think any pet owner who went through these situations knows how hard it is. You don't want your pet to suffer but you also don't want to end it too early as life is precicous and they still seem to have nice days here and there. It's impossible to get it right but I think you know when your cat still has the will to live. It's remarkable how tough they are and they usually handle it well.
I don't know whether it's universal and I don't want to alarm you as quite some time passed after the diagnosis until it got bad, but in our case, kidney disease ended in a lot of pain.

[sinkingfeeling]

8. Yes, I once had a black cat that became so unhinged going to the vet's that

she literally wrecked 4 rooms at his practice. She tore thick leather gloves off of him in her fight against being looked at. She was foaming at the mouth, growling, and making other terrible sounds as she ran from one room to another, knocking things over, jumping on counters, and avoiding 3 people.
Long afterwards, she started losing weight and then hair. We believed she had cancer. Finally, she became so weak that I took her in and we decided to let her go. She was 19 years old.

[roody]

10. Yes.

[redstatebluegirl]

11. My fur babies who have passed, either on their own or with compassionate help

have always let us know when it is time. I had one who needed some invasive procedures every other day. He started to fight me and the look in his eyes said, I know you love me but please let me go. I did, it was hard, I cried, but it was the most loving thing I could do for him. Hugs.

[Boomer]

13. I judge each animal separately

No easy answers, but I also weigh the discomfort or outright trauma against the benefit.

For an old animal, I weigh very heavily away from stressful, traumatic treatments. My greatest regrets over the years have been putting an elderly pet through surgery to "help" them. In both cases (a dog and a cat), the stress of the operation was simply not worth the small medical benefit.

After that experience I realized that "helping" can be just letting them alone to enjoy the last of their days.

[mopinko]

14. not being able to explain it to them is def something i weigh.

even to have to pill them daily, even when they are not that bad about it. i know that if i could explain that i was helping, and it meant they could have more time w me, they would totally say yes.
but putting them through that seems like a kind of betrayal that i just cant be a party to. especially as they reach their end, dont feel well, and need my comfort.

[peacebuzzard]

15. I have a 16 yr old cat with kidney elevated enzymes/kidney failure

she had quit eating and became weak, sneezing, her fur was ratty and unkept.
Her regular hometown Vet diagnosed her eventual fatal disease, gave her a steroid shot, prescription food and sent her home with grave warning that it would eventually overtake her.
I found an herbal supplement online with rave reviews and gave it a try, it turned her around.
She eats sufficient food now and has taken an interest in life again. She is back to her old cat self.
It is never easy when our companions get advanced disease, but I felt this supplement was a lifesaver. It’s easy to give, 6 drops, twice daily (depending on kitty weight) in food or what I found she liked was a broth, either tuna water or Sheba broth from Petsmart (she loves the liquid pouch broth). I simply put drops in the broth and she enjoys the moment with me.
This kidney disease supplement drops is a formula of Rehmannia (Chinese herbal formula) and cordyceps mushrooms. In a designed preparation, in a dropper bottle.
Just 2 days ago, I also consulted a homeopathic vet via phone conference. I have used this vet before with previous pets, (with great results) and he has sent me a new remedy which should be in my mailbox today. Most allopathic vets scoff this method off but (to each their own) I have had quality life extensions with my sweet pets using these kinder and less severe or detrimental meds and procedures.

[peacebuzzard]

16. It is never easy to be in a dilemma like this

I wish you and your kitty the best for both of you. Let me know if you need anything.