If you don't think a 7 round clip is cool - learn to reload.

[jpak]

Last edited Sat Jan 19, 2013, 10:09 AM - Edit history (1)

All the wailing over the NY gun safety bill reveals cognitive dissonance among gun cultists.

First they cry "but a mass murderer only needs seconds to insert a new 7 round clip!!1111".

but then they wail "but 7 round clips don't allow housewives to defend themselves!!11".

If a mass murderer can quickly reload a 7 round clip, so can a housewife.

Get over it.

yup

[Tuesday Afternoon]

1. you tell 'em, jpak.

[Glaug-Eldare]

2. Who's under more stress during a home invasion or a mass shooting?

Last edited Thu Jan 17, 2013, 09:30 PM - Edit history (1)

The attacker who is executing a plan made in advance, or the defender who is reacting to an unknown threat?

Whose marksmanship will be less degraded by stress?

Which one will be more capable of manipulating restricted-capacity magazines?

Which one is more likely to have practiced fast reloads in the immediate future?

Which one is more likely to possess banned magazines?

Which one is more likely to possess multiple firearms?

Who receives a greater advantage from a 7rd limit?




Anybody have an answer?

[sylvi]

7. x1000

If you get an answer to that (other than some irrelevant snark) I'll be more than surprised.

A killer with a bunch of defenseless people in an enclosed space can kill just as many people with low capacity weapon and multiple reloads as he/she can with a larger capacity weapon because there's no time constriction as there is against, say, someone in a defensive posture against an armed attacker. If you look at these school shootings, the assailants had all the time in the world to commit their atrocities. Even the Sandy Hook killer changed magazines several times when they were only half-empty.

The only time a "high-capacity" magazine comes into tactical advantage is against another attacker where suppression fire, having to reload less than the other guy, or facing multiple attackers is an issue.

[xoom]

35. Simple, the attacker.

[Glaug-Eldare]

40. How about you, jpak? Got an answer? n/t

[jpak]

48. Buy a single shot-shot 12 ga. and a box of 3" mag 00 buck

yup

[Glaug-Eldare]

52. I'm glad y'all are gonna lose this fight.

[jpak]

54. Nope

yup

[shadowrider]

3. I'll stick with my 12+1. Consider it a reload without having to reload. n/t

[gejohnston]

4. what exactly is it supposed to do?

and I haven't heard anyone complaining about the magazine restriction in the context you are.

Symbols: Propagandists use words, designs, place, ideas and music to symbolize ideas and concepts with emotional content.

http://mason.gmu.edu/~amcdonal/Other%20Techniques.html

[sarisataka]

5. I thought

ten rounds was the magic number, now that NY decided to slip the slope we are going with seven? What if Illinois says five is the limit or New Mexico wants sixteen?

I'm confused, can I still use a cricket bat?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

8. So does this mean that...

...beans will be 10 to a can from now on???

[sarisataka]

9. I never thought of that

no cans of assault beans

We will also have to look into wheel spoke limits. Those aerodynamic things have no place outside of sanctioned races, or licensed body guards.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

15. Better buy a hybrid...

...while you're at it. No more than 10 gallons to a tank.
And no fair adding 40 feet of aftermarket 1" gas line either.

[hack89]

6. Won't need to. nt

[apocalypsehow]

10. I love seeing all the caterwauling over New York's sensible law, that is coming to the USA

writ large in some manner, fashion, or form, over the coming months and years. Our "pro gun progressives"* honestly think that life is some kind of Hollywood action movie, complete with the (phony) "need" to have thousands of rounds on hand for that big shoot'em up they all fantasize is coming one day. The NRA propaganda machine has programmed its drones well.

Kick, Rec.


*( )

[sarisataka]

11. New York--Sensible

Military--Intelligence

[gejohnston]

13. Name Calling

Name Calling: Propagandists use this technique to create fear and arouse prejudice by using negative words (bad names) to create an unfavorable opinion or hatred against a group, beliefs, ideas or institutions they would have us denounce. This method calls for a conclusion without examining the evidence. Name Calling is used as a substitute for arguing the merits of an idea, belief, or proposal. It is often employed using sarcasm and ridicule in political cartoons and writing. When confronted with this technique the Institute for Propaganda Analysis suggests we ask ourselves the following questions: What does the name mean? Is there a real connection between the idea and the name being used? What are the merits of the idea if I leave the name out of consideration? When examining this technique try to separate your feelings about the name and the actual idea or proposal (Propaganda Critic: Common Techniques 1).

http://mason.gmu.edu/~amcdonal/Propaganda%20Techniques.html

[sylvi]

16. The Hollywood fantasy

The Hollywood fantasy comes from the grab nuts where every armed encounter is settled by one shot from a six-shot revolver, 100 yards away, striking the assailant in the leg and ending all danger, a la Dirty Harry.

The Hollywood fantasy comes from grab nuts that believe the same cops who shoot unarmed civilians and beat down OWS protesters are the ones we're supposed to give up our last line of defense and depend on for personal protection.

The Hollywood fantasy comes from grab nuts who have adopted this American exceptionalism idea of "can't happen here" when it comes to one day facing a tyrannical government, or the defeatist and fatalistic mindset that if it does there is absolutly nothing the populace will be able to do about it.

[actslikeacarrot]

12. the fastest reload...

...is a second gun. I agree with magazine limits, hope they do some kind of exchange program?

[jpak]

28. Well there ya go - these whiners forget you have two hands

[Glaug-Eldare]

32. Oh! Good point!

Who is more likely to possess two or more firearms? Attacker or defender?

[jpak]

42. Both - just to make things equal

yup

[Glaug-Eldare]

47. I guess you oppose "arsenal" laws, then, right?

Last edited Sat Jan 19, 2013, 05:31 AM - Edit history (1)

After all, if your answer is for defenders to have as many guns as they can, they shouldn't be hobbled by laws saying how many they're allowed to have.

[holdencaufield]

31. Details of the exchange program

Step 1 -- lightly oil the old mags and place in a shoebox

Step 2 -- wait for the inevitable challenge to strike down the restriction provision

Step 3 -- put your old mags back into circulation

[Travis_0004]

14. I think any law regulating guns should also apply to police.

If 7 rounds is good enough for the average citizen, then 7 rounds is also plenty for the police. Maybe they can lead by example and only have 6 rounds.

[ileus]

17. I don't have anything clip fed.

[Puha Ekapi]

18. I don't either...

...not since I gave my M1 to my cousin 20 years ago.

[gejohnston]

19. unless the law is amended, tell it to the cops

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Fnew_york&id=8958116

[Puha Ekapi]

23. That just shows...

...how hastily written and passed that law is. They didn't think it through to any degree. It was a "Quick, pass more restrictions before they wake up!", kinda deal. I only hope that saner heads prevail on a national level.

[holdencaufield]

25. Saner heads only prevail ...

... closer to the election cycle.

[Puha Ekapi]

26. I do hope....

...that you are wrong this time. I'm not ready to have my rights stripped, and REALLY not ready to have a Republican Senate and Presidency in the near future.

[holdencaufield]

27. Prepare for both ...

[xoom]

36. Haha, oh my.

Pass quick, amend later!

[gejohnston]

37. already passed and signed without anyone reading it

BTW it banned all handguns, including the cops.

[holdencaufield]

39. That seems to be the new methodology

Pass now -- let the SCOTUS work out the details.

Looks like they're going to have to make a gritty reboot of an old classic ... call Zack Snyder!

[MicaelS]

20. I think 8 round .357 Magnum revolvers..

Sound just fine to me. Smith and Wesson makes 7 different models. Between $1,000 and $1,500, but they are all quality guns. I'm thinking of buying two of the Model 627. Plus some 8 shot speed loaders.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

21. A 15 round is better

Just buy an older one.

[Remmah2]

22. Twin 1911s and a Mossberg.

Totally compliant.

[holdencaufield]

24. Apparently ...

... you've become an expert in defensive firefights since last we spoke. Will you be writing a book?

[aikoaiko]

29. They chose 7 because NY fears election retaliation from the 1911 crowd.

[holdencaufield]

30. I thought it was because it was a prime number

[rrneck]

33. If you think magazine capacity regulations are cool, read your own post. nt

[gejohnston]

34. do you seriously think a mass murderer or will have a seven round magazine?

BTW, as the law is currently written, all handguns are banned including for police. There is a reason why you don't push a first draft through passage without anyone reading it, or without the required three day review time New York apparently has.

[sarisataka]

38. Why magazine limits are a lie

State Senator Eric Adams, a former NYPD Captain, told us he's going to push for an amendment next week to exempt police officers from the high-capacity magazine ban. In his words, "You can't give more ammo to the criminals"

Even if you wish to argue the police need more ammo to fight criminals, why do retired officers also need large magazines?

"The PBA is actively working to enact changes to this law that will provide the appropriate exemptions from the law for active and retired law enforcement officers."

If a mass murderer can quickly reload a 7 round clip, so can a housewife.

but police and retired police cannot?

[Straw Man]

41. Are you aware ...

... that now in New York, currently-owned 10-round magazines are grandfathered but by law can only be loaded with seven rounds, even in one's own home? Hear and obey, oh law-abiding gun owner! Hear and disregard, criminal or murderer.

The Governor, in his wisdom, has given the criminal an automatic advantage of at least three rounds, and possibly much more.

I feel so much safer now.

[hrmjustin]

44. No law is perfect, but I am glad I voted for Gov. Cuomo.

[cohioan741]

45. My post was a comment on the OP's naiveté

regarding the ability/willingness of criminals to obtain/use outlawed guns and magazines rather than the pros-cons of the law itself.

[hrmjustin]

50. MIRT got this one.

[Straw Man]

46. Cuomo is a thug.

He rammed this thing through in a midnight session, waiving the three-day waiting period for new bills. It was delivered to Senators twenty minutes before they voted on it. It may have the unique distinction of being the first piece of legislation to undergo legal challenges from both the NRA Aand the ACLU.

[hrmjustin]

49. Cuomo has been great for this state.

He is well liked in this state, and he is not a thug.

[Straw Man]

51. So you're pro-fracking? Andy is.

Or do you just live in a community that won't be affected so you don't care?

[hrmjustin]

56. That is the one major thing I disagree with him on.

I have relations in the lower Hudson Valley that will be affected by it. But on the whole I think he is a good guy.

[Common Sense Party]

53. I'm buying a few more spare 19-round magazines, based solely on YOUR recommendation, jpak.

Thanks for helping me see the light, buddy.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

55. kick...

I hit a dry spell but this post has inspired me!

[derby378]

57. Wait, what? NY passed a gun SAFETY bill?

I knew the state legislature passed a gun control bill, but I haven't heard of a gun safety bill. Please elaborate.

[gejohnston]

58. that's the new doublespeak word

for control.