Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumBill suggests anger management classes for those purchasing ammo
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/bill-suggests-anger-management-classes-those-purch/nWkbQ/The bill was filed less than a week ago and it would require anyone buying ammunition to take a two-hour anger management course.
Sen. Audrey Gibson of Jacksonville wrote the bill.
"You have to use your driver's license to purchase cold medications these days, but there is no mechanism for using a driver's license or no database on how much ammunition is out there."
Another video here:
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=2208032304001
The phrase "transvaginal ultrasound" come to anybody elses mind?
Different bugbear, same mindset...
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... but make me sign up for a course just to participate in my chosen hobby and I WILL need anger management.
aquart
(69,014 posts)Of course, I didn't go out and buy a gun.
ThatPoetGuy
(1,747 posts)spin
(17,493 posts)the Florida Lotto tonight.
In order for me to have any chance I would have to walk across the street and buy a lotto ticket. At this moment I have no plans to do so.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)..the techniques of the fetus fetishists.
ileus
(15,396 posts)ThatPoetGuy
(1,747 posts)Rigid dogma makes it hard for you to understand that our lives are more important than your toys.
av8r1998
(265 posts)Makes it hard or you to understand that requiring "Anger Management" classes for ammo purchasers will not keep anyone safer.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)have to get through about forty seconds of BS first.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)Why can't they stay SMALL?!
beevul
(12,194 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Most murderers already have criminal records for violence. Does she think that such people will go to anger management classes?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)GSC said most murderers, not mass murderers.
Mass murderers are relatively rare, they just get the media attention. Why do they get the media attention? Because it is not common.
Dog bites man isn't news. Man bites dog is news.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)also do not have criminal records...just sayin!
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)per year. Nice red herring.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)We don't allow children or adults to just carry hand grenades around do we?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)You are woefully mistaken!
Children in the U.S. are 14 TIMES as likely to die from gunshot wounds as any other country in the industrialized world!
Since you are pulling numbers out of that place the sun doesn't shine....you might want to try reading up on the subject.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Canada is concerned because in the latest reported year, 153 Canadian children were killed by guns while France had only 109 children killed. In Japan, the number was zero.
The United States had 5,285 childhood gun deaths that same year, the Center for Disease Control reports.
http://www.journal-news.net/page/content.detail/id/557291/Thousands-of-children-are-killed---.html
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)and you implied by accident, that is less than 50. If that is a real number, about half of all murders and about one quarter of gun suicides, then you get in different issues. Brady and VPC sometimes define child as under 24. I doubt Statistics Canada plays that same game and I don't think the French do either. Canada and France does not have the population that we do.
You have to make sure the definitions are the same.
It is always better to use the primary source. You are quoting what someone else said what the CDC reports without context.
Since France has a higher suicide rate than we do, and Canada has a slightly lower rate, I'm curious to see the rope death rates for each country.
France, Canada, and Japan does not have the same problem with wealth inequality or gangs that we do. While private gun ownership in Japan is almost non existent, private gun ownership in Canada and France is much higher than you think.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)can a 12 yr old get married or join the military?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Between 2006 and 2010, 561 children age 12 and under were killed by firearms, according to the FBI's most recent Uniform Crime Reports. The numbers each year are consistent: 120 in 2006; 115 in 2007; 116 in 2008, 114 in 2009 and 96 in 2010. The FBI's count does not include gun-related child deaths that authorities have ruled accidental.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/24/guns-children_n_2359661.html
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)"In 2009, among 16 participating states in the National Violent Death Reporting System, over 86% of all firearm deaths of children 11 or younger took place in or around a home," Lowy says in an e-mail to USA TODAY.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/17/gun-control-children-newtown-school-schooting/1775469/
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)instead of the FBI?
ThatPoetGuy
(1,747 posts)Please don't let the extremists drive you away. We need good people to counterbalance them.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)apparently not as MOST Americans agree with that!
ThatPoetGuy
(1,747 posts)There was nothing sarcastic in my welcome. I'm glad to have another sensible voice penetrate the yawping.
We need better gun control is a moderate opinion, and a welcome one.
The OP belittled rape by comparing anger management classes to transvaginal ultrasounds. That's an extremist position.
The person you're arguing with -- well, he just said things about thirteen-year-olds that I won't even respond to. That's an extremist position.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)adolescents, not children as it is usually defined. Some states define child as under 14. A minor is under 18. VR seemed to be confusing child with minor, two different things.
ThatPoetGuy
(1,747 posts)I'm sorry, but you're free to edit what you wrote. As you wrote it, it's disgusting. You seem to understand that what you said isn't ok, which makes you think you meant something different. I certainly hope so.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)you seem to have me confused with someone else.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Appreciate that...I was confused by that response.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)even comes close to forcing people to take a two hour class to purchase ammo.
Remmah2
(3,291 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Remmah2
(3,291 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)do you know anyone who owns a surface to air missile?
See its gun nuts who cannot do mathmatics!
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)or afford one?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Are you kidding?
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)when I was eight years old. No one bought them, sold them, and most didn't know they were legal until the IRS (before the ATF was created) announced that you could pick up the registration forms at the local post office to register them and any previously unregistered NFA firearms (a short amnesty period after the Gun Control Act was passed).
IIRC, some people in my town misread the newspaper and brought their deer rifles to register them at the PO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)there you go...we already have gun control
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)If we are talking federal, it would have been legal if he had the registration and tax stamp.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)either way my point still stands regardless...we ALREADY regulate guns!
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)It is usually the gun control advocates who claim we don't.
If your ex left any other unregistered NFA items laying around, please contact the nearest ATF office for them to come and get it from your home.
That said, that same shotgun would probably not have to be registered under Canadian law, only requiring the owner to have a Unrestricted PAL. I do think NFA needs to be reformed. A single shot rifle or shotgun with, for example, a 15 inch barrel shouldn't be regulated the same as a machine gun. That doesn't strike me as "common sense" gun control.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)It's mainly the "guns free for all crowd" that DOESN'T understand that....the fact that we ALREADY regulate and control...means we CAN expand upon that regulation and control.
They even had gun control issues when they wrote the constitution so.....it's far from anything new!
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)or at least grasp the provisions of those laws. We had one a few years ago that actually thought the Gun Control Act regulated Wal Mart differently from Dicks Sporting Goods from a mom and pop gun store.
but I doubt the social good of expanding that control. There are limits to that expansion. Very few actually know the provisions of the various gun control laws.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Yeah even those that support an all out free for all fail to grasp for sure!
Lets see...Children in this country are 14 TIMES as likely to be killed by guns...and YOU cannot see the "social good" in expanding those limits?????
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)you are the one that is rare. I prefer to deal with the root causes of those deaths esp when it comes to suicides and murders. If the suicides by gun simply become suicides by rope, nothing is gained. IIRC, the source the article cited was from the Brady Center which is kind of like someone on "my side" citing the NRA.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I am not so rare either when most Americans agree with my position....we DO need to strengthen gun control.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)and the President. I'm closer to Bernie Sanders. Gun politics are more regional or urban vs rural more than left vs right.
Out of the people I know, the "well read" folks are fairly evenly split.
The last poll I saw the specific questions, it pretty much supported the status quo (for example, one of the questions was should dealers be required to keep records of who purchases guns. Most people answered "yes", and has been federal law since 1938 and strengthened in 1968)
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)If a dealer were to do that, he would lose his FFL and go to prison. The Gun Control Act says that they must report thefts and losses. Each manufacturer and importer keeps records of what is shipped, by individual serial numbers, to each wholesaler, and each wholesaler does the same to each dealer. These records must be kept indefinably. If the dealer goes out of business for any reason, those records are turned over to the ATF. Also, robbing a gun store, like banks, is a federal crime and has federal jurisdiction.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)As of July 2004, approved purchaser information is no longer kept for ninety days but is instead destroyed within twenty-four hours of the official NICS response to the dealer.13 As a result, ATF inspectors are no longer able to compare the information on file with the dealer to the information the dealer submitted to NICS. The Department of Justice Inspector General noted that the shortened retention time makes it much easier for corrupt firearm dealers to avoid detection.14 Federal law also specifically prohibits using NICS to create any system of registration of firearms or firearm owners.15
The FBI maintains indefinitely the records of prospective purchasers whose applications are denied.16
Sales Records: FFLs are required to maintain records of the acquisition and sale of firearms indefinitely.17 The dealer must record, in bound form, the purchase or other acquisition of a firearm not later than the close of the next business day following the purchase or acquisition.18 The dealer must similarly record the sale or other disposition of a firearm not later than seven days following the date of such transaction and retain Form 4473, the Firearms Transaction Record.19 When a firearms business is discontinued, these records are delivered to the successor or, if none exists, to the Attorney General.20
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Sales Records: FFLs are required to maintain records of the acquisition and sale of firearms indefinitely.17 The dealer must record, in bound form, the purchase or other acquisition of a firearm not later than the close of the next business day following the purchase or acquisition.18 The dealer must similarly record the sale or other disposition of a firearm not later than seven days following the date of such transaction and retain Form 4473, the Firearms Transaction Record.19 When a firearms business is discontinued, these records are delivered to the successor or, if none exists, to the Attorney General.20
I never said there was a federal registry, and I certainly don't advocate one.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)1927
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Since we agree that we have it....it means that it can be upgraded to reflect the times.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)It was called the "Miller Act" aka "Mailing of Pistols Act" Since then
National Firearms Act of 1934
Federal Firearms Act of 1938
Gun Control Act of 1968
The Brady Bill that created NICS+
Your post tells me that you actually don't know what current gun laws are. Every gun owner I know are very well versed in the laws that affect them.
The truth is, even Joe Biden admits that gun laws do not curb crimes. There are few if any independent criminologists that seriously believe that gun bans affect crime rates simply because you are talking about two different populations. That could be that is why no gun control advocate can put together an argument that isn't full of logical fallacies and propaganda misinformation.
What gun laws are saying is that it is the hunter or target shooter's fault when two drug dealers or gangsters shoot it out. In short, the farmer in Montana is being scapegoated for some city's problem. That has a lot to do with the very understandable push back.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)and what you said about Joe Biden is incorrect and points out how wrong headed your position is...the actual quote is:
"Joe Biden: Gun Laws Won't 'Guarantee' End To Mass Shootings"
No one expects ANYTHING to prevent All crimes...BUT it sure seems in Australia that curbing guns curbed mass shootings didn't it?
By the way....we ALREADY have gun controls...we are advocating for MORE of them...and stricter enforcement of them as well.
Nobody is suggesting you cannot hunt for game. But you do not need a Sig Sauer to do that do you??
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)"Joe Biden: Gun Laws Won't 'Guarantee' End To Mass Shootings"
By the way....we ALREADY have gun controls...we are advocating for MORE of them...and stricter enforcement of them as well.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)How is a Benz different than a Volvo?
talk about Ad Hominem!
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Benz is German, Volvo is Swedish
SIG Sauer is Swiss/German Ruger is US.
I'm missing the Ad Hominem
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)body in order for her to receive medical care she needs.
That has got to be one of the most offensive analogies I've ever seen posted down here, and given the pro-NRA right-wing tenor of the joint that's saying something.
Sig line nails it again:
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...of others' rights are 'reasonable' and 'common sense'. You disagree only on the subject of that infringement.
Like I said in the OP: different bugbear, same mindset...
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)her body invaded in order to receive the medical care she needs and sitting in a classroom for two hours listening to someone talk about anger management so they can keep feeding bullets into their precious little popgun: that won't fly for long on a progressive discussion board, sport. But you keep at it.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)The Brady Campaign is using the techniques of the anti-abortion crowd
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117235299
Two peas in a pod: Abortion restrictionists and gun control advocates
http://www.democraticunderground.com/117235299#post25
It's hardly a new or original observation- it is the underlying thesis of Eric Hoffer's The True Believer: Thoughts On The Nature Of Mass Movements
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer
...The book analyzes and attempts to explain the motives of the various types of personalities that give rise to mass movements; why and how mass movements start, progress and end; and the similarities between them, whether religious, political, radical or reactionary. As examples, the book often refers to Communism, Fascism, National Socialism, Christianity, Protestantism, and Islam. Hoffer believes that mass movements are interchangeable, that adherents will often flip from one movement to another, and that the motivations for mass movements are interchangeable; that religious, nationalist and social movements, whether radical or reactionary, tend to attract the same type of followers, behave in the same way and use the same tactics, even when their stated goals or values differed.
If you don't being called on the similarities, quit acting like them. As long as you lot keep aping them,
I'll keep pointing it out.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)Bobo who likes to play with popguns being made to sit in a class for two hours to listen to someone talk about anger management. It's an offensive, sexist analogy, and the fact that you've got away with it for so long on DU - largely by flying under the radar down here in the Gungeon where such right-wing bilge is openly tolerated - doesn't make it any less offensive or sexist.
But you keep right on with it: such things tend to come around full circle in the end, as your pals "Jody" and "rDigital" could no doubt tell you.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)"right-wing bilge"? Oh yeah, I forgot that one of articles of faith amongst the gun Prohibitionists is that
"anyone who disagrees with us is a winger".
Tell ya what- Just for shits and giggles, why don't you dig up some non-gun related "right-wing bilge"
that I've posted?
While you're doing that, I'll be learning Linear B...
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)"While you're doing that, I'll be learning Linear B..."
Laughable stuff.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)You're hardly the first self-appointed zampolit to blow in here, and undoubtedly you won't be the last.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 9, 2013, 10:47 PM - Edit history (3)
from your phony, offensive, and sexist comparison of an invasive, unnecessary procedure in a woman's body with the requirements that some "RKBA enthusiast" somewhere is going to have to sit in a two hour anger management class so he can continue to stockpile his parent's basement with crates of military-grade ammunition.
This act of yours is played out all over DU, and fools about no one.
Edit X 3: clarity & typo.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Just with a different purpose: the post you referred to wasn't intended to troll for conflict.
You're not fooling anyone, either, sweetcheeks.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)You confuse "sad" with "utter contempt." Understand now? Good. Always happy to help. Feel free to hit me up for assistance with big words and challenging concepts too.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)Funny stuff.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)this Vaginal American wants to know!
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)stating that you think an unnecessary invasive procedure in a woman's body is the exact same thing as requiring some trigger-happy Gump to sit in a class for two hours of anger management because he likes to stockpile ammunition for his PRD?
In other words, why don't you try that phony, sexist analogy between anti-choicers in the abortion debate and folks who believe that sensible gun legislation and regulation needs to come to America out up in General Discussion? Or in the feminists group?
Well, we know why, don't we?
Wait for it...wait for it...
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)I realize the management took away Meta and spoiled some of your fun, but you could give it a try.
Tell the world that "the rights apocalypsehow deem important are more important than others".
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)that offensive, sexist analogy up in GD or the feminists forum, just as I predicted above.
In other words, you don't have the courage of your convictions, knowing full well how such an OP would be received by the vast majority of DU.
Quod erat demonstrandum
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)Curious, that. But uniquely your credibility problem, not mine. Which why this thread is *Bookmarked* for future reference.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)sexist analogies "for years" - something he's obviously proud of - two are to the same thread and the other one is to a DU2 OP he authored in 2011. Further, all were posted in the Gungeon, not up in GD or any of the other big forums where the replier knows such offensive, sexist analogies and comparisons - invading a woman's body with an unnecessary invasive procedure in order to receive medical care she needs is the exact same thing as an anger management class for folks who like to stockpile ammunition - would receive a rather chillier reception than they do down here in this NRA-smitten joint.
Contemptible stuff.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Funny thing, I'm sure that the homophobes and ableists think their principled stances are the
right and proper ones, too...
Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #23)
apocalypsehow This message was self-deleted by its author.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)or the feminists group making the offensive analogy that says an invasive procedure compelled unnecessarily on a woman's body in order to get the medical care she needs is the exact same thing as some Bobo with a popgun being made to sit in a two hour anger management class because he wants to stockpile ammo in his parent's basement.
Until then, all the rest of this jazz is just meaningless huff n' puff.
Go ahead: Stand. Behind. Your. Stated. Convictions.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Feel free to do so- I've endured worse from better...
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)Such episodes of shrinking from standing up for one's supposed beliefs as you have conceded to here hurts your credibility, not mine.
But, then, you are well aware that the vast majority of DU'ers don't care for NRA talking points and gun lobby "blather" in which you are well versed - as you are quite aware.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)I also don't blame you for not going the alert route; it seems juries aren't exactly your friends:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=458790
You might want to reduce the bile just a bit...
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)Such episodes of shrinking from standing up for one's supposed beliefs as you have conceded to here hurts your credibility, not mine.
But, then, you are well aware that the vast majority of DU'ers don't care for NRA talking points and gun lobby "blather" in which you are well versed - as you are quite aware.
Sorry: attempting to change the subject by posting some non-responsive silliness simply isn't gonna work.
guardian
(2,282 posts)There are certainly more instances of 'road rage' than 'gun rage'. Or even better lets require anger management classes for gang members. I can see it now. Members of the Aryan Brotherhood, Mexican Mafia, Crips, and MS-13 sitting in a circle, holding hands, and doing destressing breathing exercises. Once they have their course completion certificate they can get their gang tats.
I nominate Sen. Audrey Gibson of Jacksonville for moron of the year award.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)This morning I lucked out and was able to buy several cases of ammo. On the way home I stopped at the gas station where a drop-dead gorgeous blonde was filling up her car at the next pump.
She looked at the ammo in the back of my SUV and said in a very sexy voice, "I'm a big believer in barter, big boy". "Would you be interested in trading sex for ammo?"
I thought a few seconds and asked, "what kinda ammo ya got?"
Deep13
(39,154 posts)This should be required for those seeking a driver's license or having a kid too.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)She couldn't handle Buckethead and Otto.
http://www.thebucketheadshow.com/player/?mid=22952921&station=TBHS-IP&program_id=buckethead.xml&program_name=podcast
That tells me that it wasn't really well thought out and not worth seriously discussing, let alone have a flame war over.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)That's the dumbest thing I've seen all day.
And totally impractical for that matter. There aren't enough anger management instructors in the world to accomplish it.
When do I actually need anger management? When I read that some moran dumb enough to come up with an idea like this actually got elected to office.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)you do it online every ten years.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)as it applies just as much to you as it did to the person to whom I responded:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=104730
'protecting' society from those sketchy gun nuts...
For that matter, so does a response further down that thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=104733
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)shells when a guy ambles up to the counter and says "got anything in today?" or words to that effect. The counter guy tells him they'd just unloaded a case of .223 and the guy says "I'll take it all." This lead to an argument by another guy ahead of me in line that said he'd like a shot (no pun intended) at some of that caliber of ammo, and he was there first.
They sorted it out but when I got up there I asked the employee helping me about it, and he said the first guy comes in every single day and asks if they got anything "in," and will usually buy all of it if it is either (1) handgun ammunition, (2) ammunition in calibers that loads "assault weapons," i.e., .223, .308, 7.62, etc, or (3) .22 ammo. On that third the management of the joint had had to limit him because he'd literally buy every single brick of the stuff if they'd let him and no other customers would then be able to get any. But they didn't want to limit him on the other stuff because he'd been a customer there for decades (this is a mom 'n pop gun store, not a chain or Wal Mart).
And then he proceeded to tell me they didn't have the shells I was looking for, #3 buckshot, totally sold out. Never in my life have I been told a place was out of shotgun shells. Unreal.
In any event, my question is two-fold: #1. Where are all these gumps getting the money to literally buy gun shops out of ammo? That stuff isn't cheap, and the rank n' file of the "RKBA enthusiast" movement are usually poorly-educated folks with marginal employment potential/skills, the folks profiled in Thomas Frank's "What's the Matter with Kansas?" and #2. what in the world do these panic-buyers of ammunition think is going to happen in the future? The government's going to shut down Federal, Winchester, Hornady, and the like? Or nationalize them and turn them to military/LEO production only?
The irony is, this panic-buying by our "RKBA enthusiasts" - besides being idiotic and irrational - is only hurting genuine law-abiding gun owners who can't get varmint hunting or .22 plinking rounds, or even 20 gauge shotgun shells, for crying out loud, because they're in the grip of right-wing paranoia. It irritates the hell out of the rest of us legitimate gun owners who own them and use them, but haven't made a fetish out of a piece of metal and polymer like the NRA talking points brigade mentioned in my sig line have. What gives?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Putting people on the, NICS turndown list because of certain mental problems (BBC had a story just this a.m.), anger management requirements, insurance requirements, and many others, both in legislative circles and right here, some folks might actually get the notion that bans and restrictions are forthcoming, esp. when these measures are given the pistscript: "and that's just a start."
You may have missed it, but I think a lot of those huge lines at gun shows was pushback. Big-time pushback. That and the rather sizeable demonstrations around the nation. I don't know what the stereotyped income level is for tens of millions of gun-owners is, but many are voting with their wallets, something politicians duly note. Further, I believe we will see a jump in gun-owner numbers, both real & %, that any survey will not be able to "model" away, although that is not a great concern with me.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)or suggested as sensible gun legislation, policy, or codes would affect hunters, sports shooters, or even the guy who likes to wander through the woods plinking around at any small game that moves or any stray soup can that doesn't all that much - you simply prove my point: the group of "enthusiasts" such legislation would affect are probably most in need of having their dubious little hobby more closely monitored and regulated by public policy.
The group my proposals would affect would be those who like to strut about town with a pistol perched in their pants; those who like to fantasize they're free-lance Special Ops agents and thus feel the (bogus) need to own/stockpile military-grade weaponry like the AR-15 all the while yearning and dreaming of a Red Dawn-style scenario unfolding around them; the stalker or abusive spouse or SO; the white supremacists longing for a return to the days of Jim Crow; the alienated loners with buried rage against a society they perceive as having done them "wrong" by not giving them the public attention they think is their due; that loner's philosophical twin, the Angry White Male suburbanite who wakes up every day determined to do everything he can to keep "them" out of his neighborhoods and the children of "them" out of his kid's schools (aka George Zimmerman); the homophobic religious right crowd that is praying for an apocalypse so they can go on shooting sprees against "sinners" and "degenerates" and everyone else who doesn't fit their fanatical definition of the holy and godly; and the seriously mentally ill who need help, not more firepower.**
That group is what makes up the bulk of our "RKBA enthusiasts," and it is their lobbying for almost non-existent and extremely weak gun laws in the United States coupled with mass support of the NRA that has directly led to such horrors as occurred at Sandy Hook, to Gabby Giffords, at Aurora, I could go on and on and on and on with the all-too-long list of massacres and shootings that have long plagued this country.
It is not "Big-time pushback": it is irrational, paranoid nuttery plain and simple to hoard ammunition, stockpile weapons, and flock to gun shows like groupies to a rock concert.
So in the end, your reply above only confirms the need for a nationwide law modeled on New York's SAFE Act, or just an out-and-out adoption of the Canadian/Australian/Western European model of gun regulation.
I know, I know: you're going to take a good chunk of your next reply to squawk about how "it's never gonna happen!!!!11" But oddly enough, for a group supposedly so confident that no progressive/liberal legislation on guns is going to pass, our "pro gun progressives"* sure do spend a good deal of time on this Democratic discussion board gnashing their teeth over even the possibilities of it. Which is very telling.
In any event, I answered in good faith a question you posed, and, like so many of your pals are wont to do, you merely used it as a platform to further pimp for NRA propaganda. It's good to be reminded that about all we got down here is one-note wonders among our "RKBA enthusiasts." And the tune sung is uniformly the one whistled by Wayne LaPierre and the rest of the right-wing gun lobby.
*( ; "Sic"; & etc. )
**(That's quite a crowd our "RKBA enthusiasts" roam around in the same ideological playpen with, ain't it my folks? See sig line.)
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)you despise and hate. I'll let stand your characterizations without comment; in fact, I invite the widest reading of your comments.
While your views are confirmation of your animosities and useful to an extent, could you in the future please condense your writing? Thanx.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)what Martin Luther King Jr. called the "arc of history" that "bends toward justice," while yours is the agenda of the NRA, the gun lobby, and the reactionary right-wing.
My "war" is the war of the Freedom Marchers who helped liberate the Jim Crow South, and stood for equality; your "war" is the war of Richard Nixon's "southern strategy," re-packaged and re-cloaked in the phony, hateful NRA garb of "RKBA" and "pro gun" when what it really is is the same old racist blather based on fear of "the other."
My "war" is the war of JFK's New Frontier and LBJ's Great Society, always expanding rights and working to improve the "general welfare" of all of America's citizens; your "war" is George Wallace's "standing in the schoolhouse door," and Lester Maddox's handing out ax handles for "self defense" and "RKBA" against African Americans who wanted to patronize his restaurant (Maddox used the same bogus rhetoric of the modern NRA in his rants: no surprise there! )
But most of all, my "war" is the war of tens of millions of genuine progressives and liberals who share my mainstream beliefs on the need for sensible gun legislation and policy, the same majority that put President Obama in the White House TWICE, much to the anger and hatred of your NRA pals; your "war" is conducted in the same voice and with the same talking points as Wayne LaPierre, George Zimmerman, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Sarah Palin, and all the other gun lobby, pro-NRA shills & sycophants.
And here's the real kicker, sport: my side is winning; yours is losing. America is turning Blue. Better get used to it.
"could you in the future please condense your writing? Thanx"
If your attention span is that short and/or your reading abilities that strained by a thoughtful reply on DU, perhaps you should find another online diversion to amuse and entertain you. This one seems to be too much heavy lifting for the 'ole brain cells you got kicking around up there.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)when they encounter said truth and facts. And extremely limited attention span problems to boot. Funny stuff, as always.
See 'yah.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)You are also a law abiding responsible gun owner, till you're not.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Rabid culture war, spittle-flecked hate with only a tenuous relation to reality, and attempts at collective
guilt-tripping- you lot have learned well from your role model Pam and her merry band of bigots:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022504439
The strong-stomached can see on video the equivalent of what you've been reading here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022504439#post15
Like our pet bigots here, Pam doesn't suffer dissent well at all:
http://www.salon.com/2013/03/16/pam_geller_shouts_down_orly_taitz_at_cpac_panel/
Glad to see that the Teabaggers are also beset by self-appointed zampolits. Just like ours, they can't abide
any disagreement...
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)sycophants: that's what drives the rage, the defensiveness, the rank false analogies, the personal attacks, the dishonest debating tactics & techniques, the endless logical fallacies, and the sputtering regurgitation of Wayne LaPierre rants and NRA propaganda.
The vast majority of DU'ers agree with my position on sensible gun legislation, not yours; the vast majority of Democrats agree with the vast majority of DU'ers position regarding same; and the majority of Americans as a whole agree with us, not you, and not the tiny coterie of "pro gun progressives"* who routinely spew NRA talking points all over this discussion board.
The future is with our side, not yours: America is turning Blue. Better get used to it.
*( )
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...trying to help the Real Americans, who agree with meee..."
And if you think I'm down with the NRA- well, you're either too lazy to search my posts or resistant
to factual information that doesn't jibe with your schtick.
Which is it?
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)sycophants: that's what drives the rage, the defensiveness, the rank false analogies, the personal attacks, the dishonest debating tactics & techniques, the endless logical fallacies, and the sputtering regurgitation of Wayne LaPierre rants and NRA propaganda.
The vast majority of DU'ers agree with my position on sensible gun legislation, not yours; the vast majority of Democrats agree with the vast majority of DU'ers position regarding same; and the majority of Americans as a whole agree with us, not you, and not the tiny coterie of "pro gun progressives"* who routinely spew NRA talking points all over this discussion board.
The future is with our side, not yours: America is turning Blue. Better get used to it.
*( )
Since the replier obvious didn't read it the first go round: another crack at it. I'm generous like that.
Read slower, friendly! Or better, friendly! Or both!
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)on DU, yet?
Get back with me when you're willing to stand behind your convictions and post an OP in GD
or the feminists group making the offensive analogy that says an invasive procedure compelled unnecessarily on a woman's body in order to get the medical care she needs is the exact same thing as some Bobo with a popgun being made to sit in a two hour anger management class because he wants to stockpile ammo in his parent's basement.
Until then, all the rest of this jazz is just meaningless huff n' puff.
Go ahead: Stand. Behind. Your. Stated. Convictions.
Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172113546#post32
How about it?
Or is it a matter of...
Inquiring minds want to know!
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Double-dog daring me to post where you'd like me to is rather middle school.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)to a sufficient level to post a pro-NRA talking point in General Discussion or the Feminists forum equating a male gun owner sitting in a two hour anger management class with a woman being vaginally probed against her will in order to get the health care she needs.
Scarcely surprised, as you already know the (justified) anger such a ridiculous analogy would stir in the actual progressive and liberal parts of DU, as opposed to this right-wing pro-NRA talking points pit you and your pro-NRA pals have going on down here.
Looks like I was correct above: you're
Laughable stuff.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)despite all the shouting, waving and insults.
Think about it for a minute- you lot now have your own patch at DU, where you can discuss to your little hearts' content
without hearing a dissenting word:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1262
(which sees much less traffic than GC&RKBA does, despite the claimed popularity of your views)
So why bother to come here to root out heresy....err, 'counter NRA talking points', if us low types
are headed for the dustheap of history as you claim?
Because for all the brave talk, you lot know deep inside things aren't going your way
The Federal assault weapon ban isn't going to happen. NO state that now allows its citizens to
carry concealed weapons is going to rescind that- even the deepest blue ones- and the one remaining
that doesn't allow it will be doing so this year.
I'd much rather be on the proper (and winning) side of history than have the good opinion of people like you.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)a pro-NRA talking point in General Discussion or the Feminists forum equating a male gun owner sitting in a two hour anger management class with a woman being vaginally probed against her will in order to get the health care she needs.
As that phony, offensive claim (that you have posted down here in the Gungeon repeatedly) would be seen as the sexist, misogynistic, pro-gun lobby crap it is and likely be hidden, you have not yet worked up the bravado to stand behind your own stated convictions. That's all I or anyone else examining the matter "sees," and you well know it.
Textbook stuff.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/126268#post10
Just keep playing that tune- those that like hearing it will continue to like it
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)But nice ploy at continuing to try to change the subject and evade the issue of your unwillingness to post your offensive pro-NRA talking points regarding this matter up in GD or over in the Feminists forum.
petronius
(26,608 posts)difficult, and/or time consuming - with no redeeming societal or personal benefit. I'll always oppose that sort of transparent obstructionism and interference...