Incoming NRA President Calls Civil War The ‘War Of Northern Aggression’

[Blue_Tires]

In a 2012 speech to the New York Rifle & Pistol Association, where he also refers to President Obama as a “fake president” and calls Attorney General Eric Holder “rabidly unAmerican,” incoming National Rifle Association President Jim Porter applied an odd label to the war that ended slavery in the United States and put down the single greatest act of treason in our nation’s history:

The NRA was started, 1871, right here in New York state. It was started by some Yankee generals who didn’t like the way my southern boys had the ability to shoot in what we call the “War of Northern Aggression.” Now, y’all might call it the Civil War, but we call it the War of Northern Aggression down south.

But that was the very reason that they started the National Rifle Association, was to teach and train the civilian in the use of the standard military firearm. And I am one who still feels very strongly that that is one of our most greatest charges that we can have today, is to train the civilian in the use of the standard military firearm, so that when they have to fight for their country they’re ready to do it. Also, when they’re ready to fight tyranny, they’re ready to do it. Also, when they’re ready to fight tyranny, they have the wherewithal and the weapons to do it.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/03/1958961/incoming-nra-president-calls-civil-war-the-war-of-northern-aggression/


1. So the incoming NRA president has ZERO idea about the history behind the original formation of his organization...

2. Is this guy from nineteen fuckin' fifty-five or something? He's just making southerners look bad...

[Sekhmets Daughter]

1. You expected something different from the NRA?

The south has always referred to it as the war of northern aggression....conveniently forgetting which side fired the first shots.

[Blue_Tires]

2. the south hasn't always called it that

yeah, you'll hear it in some pseudo-state's rights/KKK-lite circles, but for the most part only southerners of a certain generation are even familiar with the term...

[Sekhmets Daughter]

3. I lived in VA during the late 60s and early 70s

it was common then...my brother's high school teacher called it that and spit every time he mentioned Lincoln, Grant or Sherman.
I live in FL now...I've heard it said with a perfectly straight numerous times...by people younger than I.

[SunSeeker]

4. Yup, the NRA is for the 44% of Repukes who foresee an armed revolution.

[upaloopa]

6. NRA needs to train us in case we are to

fight in a war?
Gee why did I have to go to basic training?
This is one symptom of a gun nut. He has fantasies about war but would never enlist in the military.
Have gun will fantasize

[Straw Man]

10. Training.

NRA needs to train us in case we are to

fight in a war?
Gee why did I have to go to basic training?

Welll, you see, if you have only ten weeks to train people to do something, it's much easier if they already have some idea of how to do it. Elementary, really.

Whether or not you believe it, that was the impetus behind the formation of the NRA. Apparently, there was a perceived need. Or was that just a convenient pretext for 19th-century gun nuts to launch their proliferation efforts?

[upaloopa]

12. I see you have never been the in military.

The Army taught me how to use a M-14 the way it should be taught. No NRA is going to teach you to use a rifle the way you need to be trained for war.
Stop your almighty worship of guns and you might realize you don't know all there is to know about war and guns.

[Straw Man]

14. Don't be ridiculous.

The Army taught me how to use a M-14 the way it should be taught. No NRA is going to teach you to use a rifle the way you need to be trained for war.

I'm not saying it takes the place of basic training. I'm saying that someone who knows how to shoot a rifle can be trained for military use much faster than someone who has never touched one in his life.

That is so elementary that I can't believe you don't see it. I don't know "all there is to know about war and guns," but I can recognize the painfully obvious when I see it.

[jimmy the one]

17. the army way, or the wrong way

Last edited Sun May 5, 2013, 12:23 PM - Edit history (1)

straw man: I'm not saying it takes the place of basic training. I'm saying that someone who knows how to shoot a rifle can be trained for military use much faster than someone who has never touched one in his life.

New enlistees in the army tend to be on the younger side, 20ish, and likely not fired the army rifle {m16 or m14 as per upaloopa};
I think most army firearm instructors would tell newbies to forget most of what they'd previously learned, since there's an army saying '3 ways to do things in the army, 'the right way, the wrong way, & the army way'. {It's generic military, the navy uses it as well substituting 'navy way', the marines & af too I bet}. While a bit hyperbole, their motto when confronted with balking or previous beliefs against the army grain, so it doesn't matter what you already know if it doesn't jive with the army way. You agree with this when you say doesn't take the place of basic training.
Sure, previous firearm training gets you one up on other enlistees as far as insight at the shooting range, but the army just can't take your word for it that newbies are expert in gun knowledge, you still need go thru the motions of gun training (afaik). There might be some exceptions but they would be exceptions not the rule.

straw man: That is so elementary that I can't believe you don't see it. I don't know "all there is to know about war and guns," but I can recognize the painfully obvious when I see it.

The army way, or the wrong way.

The navy doesn't emphasize firearm training nearly to the extent the army does (duh), it's more like an 'elective' in the navy rather than a specialty - I only trained once full day at a range in annapolis (w m16 & 45). You get rifle training in boot camp but it's not as intensive as army.

[gejohnston]

18. correction

the ways of doing things are the right way, easy way, and the army way.

[Eleanors38]

16. Do you take the NRA & the RW's rhetoric seriously?

Do you think they have the willingness and capability to violently attack their "enemies" in a manner which would seriously disrupt and fundamentally alter our society for the worse?

[hack89]

7. The NRA was co-founded in New York by a Union general

Its first president was General Ambrose Burnside of civil war fame. Its stated purpose was to provide a pool of men for military service that knew how to shoot.

[Blue_Tires]

8. Yeah, I mentioned Burnside in the GD thread

[lastlib]

9. 2. more like 1875.........

[jimmy the one]

11. Warning --- INCOMING

porter, incoming nra president (cough): The NRA was started, 1871, right here in New York state. It was started by some Yankee generals who didn’t like the way my southern boys had the ability to shoot in what we call the “War of Northern Aggression.” Now, y’all might call it the Civil War, but we call it the War of Northern Aggression down south.

What he means by the underlined above, justifiably so at least generally, was that confederate infantry tended to shoot more accurately than yankee infantry, at least at warstart. A lot of this surely had to do with southern fervor & intensity in trying to secede, while lincoln at first had to rely upon called up volunteers & state militia, which hadn't as much training or zeal for fighting. It was as much the southerner was more zealous to fight not run, but can't rule out better shots either, overall.
Thus at bull run (now northern virginia, manassas), first major battle, in 1861 iirc, the yankees thought it would be a cakewalk against the upstart confederates but turned out to be a rout by the rebs (Lee was not yet in charge maybe joe johnston, & SJackson got his nick here but wasn't 'great leader' at the time).

Another notable confederate cavalry general, nathan bedford forrest, founded a group (president maybe) also about the time the nra was founded, the ku klux klan about 1866 right after warsend; I wonder if new nra president porter is proud of THAT confederate general as well?

Could be worse than porter, could be the new presiduncy of wayno (vice presidunce for life).

[gejohnston]

13. not quite

A lot of this surely had to do with southern fervor & intensity in trying to secede, while lincoln at first had to rely upon called up volunteers & state militia, which hadn't as much training or zeal for fighting. It was as much the southerner was more zealous to fight not run, but can't rule out better shots either, overall.

It had more to do with southern troops were more rural and more familiar with firearms. They also used guerrilla tactics more. The Union had a larger number of city folks and immigrants from Europe. You do have a valid point as far as "defender's advantage" goes. Many people were against secession, including people who worked in Jefferson Davis' War Department, who gave secrets to the Union.
As the war continued more people got pissed off. Things like military commandeering without compensation, the draft, restrictions on speech and press, needing a passport to go to the next state, and the economy decreased support. The most dangerous places for police types that went after draft resistors were North Texas, NW Florida, and the Smoky Mts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Bowser
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Van_Lew
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/books-and-monographs/black-dispatches/

That isn't to say the CSA didn't have their own network
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/additional-publications/civil-war/p5.htm

The CSA lost largely because smaller population, little industrialization, and still used muzzle loading rifles while some Union units started adopting repeating rifles.

[krispos42]

15. Wow.

That doesn't bode well. Obama derangement syndrome is spreading outside of the GOP.

[CreekDog]

20. Krispos get real, he's a southern conservative

Who thinks paranoid and racist thoughts as well as thinks the civil war was won by the wrong side.

Much as you want to think he's some centrist turned paranoid over fears about losing his guns, he's not.

[krispos42]

23. No, I'm just surprised he said it in public.

I know nothing about him, and I've got the strong feeling I don't want to know anything more about him.

[CreekDog]

31. can you not run away from what you just said?

Obama derangement syndrome is spreading outside of the GOP.

you said that. either you stand by what you said or you take it back, which is it?

[krispos42]

33. I'm not following your train of thought.

I don't see how the two statements from me are contradictory.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. The NRA is hardly "outside the GOP".

[bobclark86]

19. That was the point originally...

but those guns the NRA-trained men were to use were owned by the U.S. (or state) government and kept in government arsenals. NRA high-power rifle training is done on AR-platform guns using military slings and positions... they teach the Army way. And BTW, most police today train either with NRA training programs or NRA-funded ranges.

THAT is what the NRA was originally for -- it had NOTHING to do with the Klan (a la Bowling for Columbine).

That said... what the fuck does the NRA's original mission have to to with making sure I can buy and sell an AR and 100-round drum magazine to my neighbor? Or making it virtually impossible to strengthen background checks and straw purchaser checks (think Webster)?

Thought so: NOTHING.

[gejohnston]

21. straw purchaser checks?

straw purchasing from an FFL has been illegal since 1968.

[bobclark86]

22. No shit, Sherlock...

But there's dick for enforcement.

Out of everything said on this thread, that's the one thing you come back with? OK.

[jimmy the one]

24. Lost Cause Southern Movement

Porker, proud member of the Lost Cause: Now, y’all might call it the Civil War, but we call it the War of Northern Aggression down south.

wiki: Those who contributed to the {Lost Cause} movement tended to portray the Confederacy's cause as noble and most of its leaders as exemplars of old-fashioned chivalry, defeated by the Union armies through overwhelming force rather than martial skill. Proponents of the Lost Cause movement also condemned the Reconstruction that followed the Civil War, claiming that it had been a deliberate attempt by Northern politicians and speculators to destroy the traditional Southern way of life.
The Lost Cause is the name commonly given to an American literary and intellectual movement that sought to reconcile the traditional white society of the U.S. South to the defeat of the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War..

Lost Cause first appeared in the title of an 1866 book by the historian Edward A. Pollard, The Lost Cause: A New Southern History of the War of the Confederates. However, it was the articles written by Lt. Gen. Jubal A. Early in the 1870s for the Southern Historical Society that firmly established the Lost Cause as a long-lasting literary and cultural phenomenon.

Some of the main tenets of the Lost Cause movement were that:
1 Confederate generals such as Lee, Albert Sidney Johnston and "Stonewall" Jackson represented the virtues of Southern nobility and fought bravely and fairly. On the other hand, most Northern generals were characterized as possessing low moral standards, because they subjected the Southern civilian population to indignities like Sherman's March to the Sea and Philip Sheridan's burning of the Shenandoah Valley in the Valley Campaigns of 1864. {AND CURRENTLY OBAMACARE & GUNCONTROL.} Union General Ulysses S. Grant is often portrayed as an alcoholic.
2 Losses on the battlefield were inevitable due to Northern superiority in resources and manpower.
3 Battlefield losses were also the result of betrayal and incompetence on the part of certain subordinates of General Lee, such as General James Longstreet, who was reviled for doubting Lee at Gettysburg, and George Pickett, who led the disastrous Pickett's Charge that broke the South's back (the Lost Cause focused mainly on Lee and the eastern theater of operations..).
4 Defense of states' rights, rather than preservation of chattel slavery, was the primary cause that led eleven Southern states to secede from the Union, thus precipitating the war.
5 Secession was a justifiable constitutional response to Northern cultural and economic aggressions against the Southern way of life.
6 Slavery was a benign institution, and the slaves were loyal and faithful to their benevolent masters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy

[gejohnston]

25. gun control and Obamacare have nothing to do with

the Lost Cause, given that during that time, the south had fairly strict gun control laws and had until the civil rights era. North Carolina's purchase permit system began in 1919. South Carolina had a handgun ban that lasted from 1902-1965. Florida banned open carry in 1893, 33 years after Texas. Georgia had a handgun and knife ban that was overturned in the 1840s.
http://www.saf.org/lawreviews/tahmassebi1.html

Portraying famous people as one dimensional caricatures is not unique to neo Confederates.
http://faculty.css.edu/mkelsey/usgrant/alcohol.html

[CokeMachine]

28. Jesus Jimmy, Is there a way for you to post something

without 1,000 words or do you get paid by the word ( no I didn't count them )? Is there a chance you are from Canada?

Just curious

[jimmy the one]

29. not for the simple minded

coke machine Jesus Jimmy, Is there a way for you to post something without 1,000 words or do you get paid by the word ( no I didn't count them )? Is there a chance you are from Canada?

I concur my posts won't appeal to the simple minded, since I don't care to post quick reads but rather in depth replies/info.

Just curious

Just as you were the last half dozen times you asked.
And you never did say which brand of coke comes out of your machine. Diet, regular, other? is there a reason for your reticence?
Just curious.

[CokeMachine]

32. I prefer Mountain Dew.

I'm curious What are you the ONE of? Sounds like you are a very important person. Are you?

The Cokemachine reference has nothing to do with beverages or as another poster asked it also has nothing to do with drugs. Say hello to the person paying you by the word. Your posts remind me of the know-it-all person at the bar. They use a lot of words but actually say nothing at all and don't really know as much as they think they do.

Have a good day.

[Warpy]

27. He's a fat putz from Alabama whose family has run the NRA

before now. So yes, he's from nineteen fucking fifty-five.

He's a shining example of why that organization has outlived any usefulness it ever had.