This might have been discussed before, but I was just wondering...

[SoutherDem]

Any post on the subject of guns can only be posted in two areas, the Gun Control Reform Activism Group and the Gun Control & RKBA Group. Right?

But the Gun Control Reform Activism Group is more sterile than most operating rooms. Even be misunderstood as a Pro-gun/Pro-2nd Amendment person and your post will be removed, alerted or you will be band from the group. Right?

So that leaves the Gun Control & RKBA Group. Right?

The Gun Control & RKBA Group allows frank and even heated discussions on the subject. Right?

But the Gun Control & RKBA Group has a few regular posters whose goal seems to just antagonize anyone who is Pro-gun/Pro-2nd Amendment without any real want to discuss anything, to the point the goal is to get us to cross the line and be alerted on and our posts removed. Right?

So my question is if Pro-gun/Pro-2nd Amendments members of DU can't carry on a discussion on the subject without being verbally attacked with the risk of being alerted on if we respond in kind, is it time for a 3rd Group one that is the RKAB Activism Group?

Just wondering.

[geckosfeet]

1. WHAT!! This is a liberal democratic forum! No gunz! No gunz! Repeat no gunz!

OK. Snark generator off.

I kind of agree with your assesment of the two groups. It is very easy to get banned from said group simply for expressing a pro 2A sentiment. The other said group is much more tolerant of various opinions and will even try to engage obvious anti 2A trolls.

So what is/would be the point of a third group? And why here? I do think gun policy discussion is important. But a good bit of it takes place in this rkba group. There is no shortage of other sites and forums where general firearms banter is much more enjoyable- on edit: and informed.

[SoutherDem]

7. Why I asked.

When I was new to DU I had a different opinion of the 2nd Amendment than I do now. I had a couple of real questions on the subject my post in GD was removed, fair enough I didn't realize the Gun Control & RKBA group existed.

I took my post to the correct group and had several frank and even heated discussions, but more or less civil. The few I were referring to either hadn't found the group yet, not joined DU yet or for whatever reason didn't chime in.

Long story short, I changed my mind. Based on some of those discussion I was given information I had not heard before and after additional research I came to the conclusion my original opinion was wrong.

Why have the discussion on DU in the first place? Well, as a southern democrat who supports RKBA I at times feel like a "man without a country". To be able to have these discussions on my favorite Democratic website would be nice.

Actually, I don't know if I want a new group either. I guess I was just frustrated when I made my post. What I want is the ability to have real discussions, even heated ones, without a vocal few to continuously make mindless post not intended to continue the conversation but just to raise tempers.

[geckosfeet]

11. I and probably a number of other pro rkba du'ers share your sense of alienation and frustration.

I think this is as good a group as any new one, which would soon be just as infested with anti 2A trolls.

Again, the ignore feature works pretty well. But it will hides users site wide vs just in rkba where they may be more noxious than elsewhere.

[LuvNewcastle]

2. Those of you who want to have a discussion

without being antagonized should put those regular posters on ignore. Who are your hosts? If enough people in the forum complain, your hosts can ban them from the forum. If your hosts won't do that, it's time to get new ones who will.

[SoutherDem]

9. When you ignore someone...

do you see replies to the ignored person?

[LuvNewcastle]

14. Yes.

I haven't had anyone on Ignore for a long time, but when I did, the ignored person's post would read "Ignored" in the subject line and the post itself would be blank. All other posts would be the same as usual.

[SoutherDem]

15. Thanks for the reply.

Good info.

[CokeMachine]

16. From my experience

If you ignore someone then all posts by that poster and any replies (from anyone) to them are not shown. It's like they disappear from DU for you. I put a couple on ignore and it made certain threads 60% smaller. If they reply to one of your posts then in your "My Posts" it will show as "You are ignoring this member". I usually will put someone on ignore for a week or so and then take them off.

[LuvNewcastle]

17. They might have changed since I've had someone on Ignore.

I've heard that there's two stages of Ignore now, regular Ignore and total Ignore, or something like that. They didn't use to have that. Anyway, the idea is to stop feeding the trolls. If people stop answering their posts, they'll probably stop posting. Trolls die when they're not fed.

[CokeMachine]

18. There are two levels of ignore

One is to block PM emails and the other is total ignore. If you put someone on either you will not see any posts they made or any thread posts after they started posting in it. The only way to know if someone you have on ignore has responded to you ist to check "My Posts". You can't see what they said unless you take them off of ignore. Both are like total ignore. They can see what you post and respond but you can't see it. At least that my understanding (I've been wrong before).

Have a good night!!

[CokeMachine]

19. Yep I agree!! nt

[ileus]

3. It would be nice to have an anything firearm related section.

[jimmy the one]

4. splendid idea, who could ask for more?

SoutherDem: But the Gun Control Reform Activism Group is more sterile than most operating rooms. Even be misunderstood as a Pro-gun/Pro-2nd Amendment person and your post will be removed, alerted or you will be band from the group. Right?

Or grouped from the band I suppose. Your simile' is exaggeration.

But the Gun Control & RKBA Group has a few regular posters whose goal seems to just antagonize anyone who is Pro-gun/Pro-2nd Amendment without any real want to discuss anything, to the point the goal is to get us to cross the line and be alerted on and our posts removed. Right?

I presume I'm included in this group you note. The adversarial antagonism you refer to usually stems from pro gun misconceptions being portrayed as fact or true, and our subsequent arguments rebutting those misconceptions or false portrayals - what you think is true often is diametrically opposed to what we think. True, sometimes you all will have the better arguments, we aren't perfect, but those instances are relatively few & violations on your side tend to be more severe, imo, tho obviously you all disagree.
.. The title of the group or forum is 'Gun Control & RKBA' which obviously mentions both adversarial sides, indeed when I first joined half year back I thought it was pro guncontrol, thus was sorta shocked when I saw adverts for carrying concealed & pix of handguns when I logged on (jeez, now there are even tea party promotions, wtf?).

.. is it time for a 3rd Group one that is the RKAB Activism Group?

I think a splendid idea, sincerely, if that's what you need go for it. I think most all of us gun control advocates will respect your wishes & abstain from posting on it, tho you'll excuse us for x-posting sometimes, which you all do as well to small extent. I'd even voluntarily pre-ban myself, to avoid inadvertently posting on it thinking a different group. Any pressing concerns could be addressed on this forum by reposing questions etc.
Then there'd be a safe haven for both sides, with a mutual adversarial discussion forum where few holds barred, who could ask for more?

[SoutherDem]

8. Actually no you are not one.

I went back and checked a few postings you have made. While we generally disagree you do take time to answer the posts sincerely,
just as you did with my OP.

Truthfully, I am not looking for a safe haven, I am looking for real discussions without those who simply pour fuel on the fire for no other reason than to watch it burn and watch the fire department put it out (juries seem to vote their opinion on the subject rather than if the poster really violated the rules).

As to facts, both sides have their cherry picked facts to toss into an argument and debating those facts is what I am looking for in a group.

[krispos42]

5. The Admins are also allowing gun-politics topics in GD for the time being.

Since December or so. The Newtown Massacre.

The problem of jury bias exists; there are some people on DU that simply see jury service as a chance to strike out at people they perceive as clever Freeper/NRA/RW trolls that haven't been caught by the Admins or MIRT yet. Or as a chance to simply silence what they perceive as an incorrect viewpoint.



The fundamental problem is that RKBA activisim lines up very closely with the frothing idiots on the Right, in effect if not in cause.

For example, I am against creating a class of weapons known as "assault weapons". The source of my belief is not because i think The People are going to be engaged in an armed revolution against The Government at some point. Or that The People need protection from The Government. Or that lots of people owning guns will somehow scare the government into compliance.

But because I have this belief, working towards this political goal would require aligning with people that are preparing for revolution/civilization collapse/rebellion/race war/civil war.

It requires me to criticize the same elected officials that the Right is, and to seek to either change their opinions, change their voting, or change the person in that elected position. But the Right is not going to want to replace an anti-gun politician with the same pro-gun politician that I would want.

THEIR pro-gun politician would be an anti-abortion, corporate, military-industrialist, tax-cutting idiot.

[SoutherDem]

10. I didn't realize the "G" word was allowed in GD.

I knew for a few weeks after Newtown it was but I thought that stopped.

Being a pro-RKBA Democrat is hard. I can't/won't join the NRA because I don't want my money to go to Republican candidates. I know I am not alone, living in Alabama many of my Democratic friends support the 2nd Amendment the same way I do but honestly most of the other pro-RKBA people I know are Republicans (we discuss guns but not politics).

As to elected officials, once again living in the part of Alabama I do means each election most if not all of the candidates I vote for don't win (a family court judge or school board member may slip by) and even my vote for President is group with the rest of the state and it is change to the Republican in the electoral college.

[Eleanors38]

6. Your assessment of the 2 "official" groups is accurate enough...

but keep in mind, GD (contrary to policy in the past) ALSO allows for gun "discussion," which for a time -- along with the many Zimmy alerts -- gave the impression GD was a 3rd gun forum. In effect, it still is. As I see it, controller/banners for the most part pumped their bilge here with little chance of alerts being H'd. They can and do the same here, but the place they most often choose is GD because they want, for the most part, the widest dissimenation of their stigmatizing & baiting content with virtually no chance of being hidden; IMO, it is strategy for smearing fellow DUers until they leave (it hasn't worked), or for "stinking up the joint" so that some authority or mythical "groundswell" will call for an end to open discussion of firearms policy resulting in promotion of controller/ban doctrine as DU policy, hence Castle BansaLot.

I don't think we need a group comparable to BansaLot. Better would be a RETURN TO DU POLICY of not having guns discussed in GD I thunk Most DU members would welcome this! (Poll anyone?)

I also would like a fair use if the jury system, and some hope that the worst baiters be shown the door, but I will not speak further on these last matters.

[SoutherDem]

12. Thanks for the reply.

I agree.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

13. nawh, we're good. really -

let 'em cut their teeth in their playpen and then come over here for a real spanking. Happens on a regular basis.

[NYC_SKP]

20. This is the perfect showcase for ridiculousness. I like it just the way it is.

No need for a third group, IMO.

The two we have are adequate to prove the night and day differences among us.