Crime control…or gun control?

[DWC]

I just got this…and t his has to be the most conscientious, logical, sensible rhetoric on the gun issue I’ve watched, heard or read since my Jr. High years studying the framers of the Constitution of the USA!

Should be required viewing by both sides of the issue of gun control/legislation....

?rel=0

Semper Fi,

[upaloopa]

1. Well I made it to the Gazel and puked!

Nice way to bring NRA talking points to the masses.

[upaloopa]

3. samantics

Each of us decides for ourselves what is common sense.
More guns in the hands of the public is not common sense. More guns = more people shot
Case in point if Zimmerman wasn't armed both he and Martin would be telling people about the fight they had.

[ExCop-LawStudent]

4. Not according to the data

More guns = less crime.

I agree that each of us should decide. I want to be able to decide to protect myself and my family. Why do you wish to take that choice away from me? Don't I have the right to defend myself? If you don't want to, no one is forcing you to do so.

[upaloopa]

6. I'm not taking or wanting to take anything away from you

In the paradigm you see the world through you need a gun for protection. The vast majority do not see the world through that pardigm. We don't want a society were it is dangerous to be a black kid in a hoodie.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

5. "More guns = more people shot"

More guns ARE being sold, in unprecedented numbers. Why are more people not being shot?

[upaloopa]

7. Hundreds of people are shot everyday in this country

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

10. "Hundreds of people..."

...have been shot everyday for a long time. I didn't ask how many are shot everyday. I asked, "Why those shootings are not increasing?" Your contention was that more guns = more people shot. I suggest that violent crime rates are not determined or significantly affected by the number of guns in private hands.


There are about 600,000,000 guns in private hands throughout the world and about 50% are in the US. Why is it we aren't experiencing 50% of all the world's crime? The US has about 5% of the world population. US ownership rate for guns is about 1 per person. The rate for the rest of the world 1 for each 20 persons. Why is the US crime rate not 20 times higher than the rest of the world?

[upaloopa]

16. You're hung up on some statistic. People are being

shot. It makes sense that the more people there are with guns the more opportunity there is to be shot.
I am not interested in an all afternoon posting back and forth.

I'll give you the last word

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

17. well, no thanks but...

...Have a nice day.

[Lizzie Poppet]

12. You said MORE people.

That's not the case.

[upaloopa]

15. One person shot is too much

[gejohnston]

13. no,

by the time the cops got there, Martin would be in jail for felony assault at best.

[DWC]

25. Was it the Gazelle being

mutilated by the hornectomy or the Cheetah killing and eating the defenseless creature that gotcha?

Semper Fi

[upaloopa]

26. No I don't want to be fed NRA talking points

they make me puke

[DWC]

29. I know the old adage

"The truth hurts."

But you are the first with the new adage "The truth makes you puke"

Semper Fi,

[upaloopa]

30. Truth is relevant. That ain't truth it's propaganda.

[DWC]

31. Name one thing stated in the video that is not true. n/t

[jmg257]

8. This was some of the dumbest stuff I heard the 1st time it was posted.

Still fucked up now.

How can anyone take what this clown has to say seriously?

[jmg257]

9. Somehow, that figures...

Last edited Mon Jul 15, 2013, 05:50 PM - Edit history (1)

"his has to be the most conscientious, logical, sensible rhetoric on the gun issue I’ve watched, heard or read since my Jr. High years studying the framers of the Constitution of the USA!"




Last time it was posted, I didn't make it past the opening BS: he said 'we know violence murder, and insanity
are built into the human condition', and then wants to use THAT notion as justification for us all having easier access to guns???


Next he muses that via gun control, we are somehow cutting the horns of the gazelle, but not removing the claws from the leopard at the same time?
OoooKaaaayyyyy..........

And THEN he quoted the proven bogus 'valid self-defense' stats known to be myths for years.

After those 1st 3 gems, I puked in mouth, and had to turn it off.


Hey it was nice presentation, but even if you put a pile of bullshit in a dress, you still just have a pile of bullshit (and a ruined dress).

[DWC]

11. "...but even if you put a pile of bullshit in a dress,

you still just have a pile of bullshit..."

The same holds true for fools as well.

Do you prefer a dress or a suit?

Semper Fi,

[jmg257]

14. Hey, YOU are the one who posted this as "the most conscientious, logical, sensible rhetoric...

you've watched, heard or read"



You don't get around much, do you?


Does he have a video on juggling, too?

[jimmy the one]

18. More Guns, More Lies

excoplawStudent: Not according to the data ... More guns = less crime.

Huh? according to the data, observe what excop is confused about:
RATES: Total, Violent, Property, & Murder:
Yr... popu.. (prop&violtotal) .. viol..... prop... murder ..... gunstock
1962- 185,771,000.. 2,019.8 .... 162.3 .. 1,857.5 .. 4.6 .. ~75mill
2011- 311,591,917 ..3,295.0 .... 386.3 .. 2,908.7 .. 4.7 ..~300mill

What is 'more' excop, 162 violcrime rate in 1962, or 386 violcr rate in 2011?
What's more, 1857 property crime rate in 1962, or 2908 rate in 2011?
What's more, 2020 total crime rate in 1962, or 3295 total crime rate in 2011?
What's more, excop, 75 million guns, or 300 million guns?
By this table, MORE GUNS, HIGHER CRIME RATES.

Oh & look at 1991, 'in between' those above years of 1962 & 2011, gstock ~225mill:
1991.. 252mill .. 5,897.8 total .. 758 vcr .. 5,139 prop .. 9.8 murder
From 1962 to 1991, violent crime rate went from 162 to 758, quintupled, after gunstock went from ~75 millions to 225 millions, tripling. MORE GUNS MORE CRIME.

By total number of crimes:
yr... popu....... total viol&prop ..... violcr..... propcr... murder
1962- 185,771,000 -- 3,752,200 --- 301,510 -- 3,450,700 -- 8,530*
2011- 311,591,917 -10,266,737 --1,203,564 -- 9,063,173 --14,612*
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm *Only the last murder stats are not indicative (8530 & 14612) since they are, by rate, at parity.

Same questions, excop, what's more, 3.7m total in 1962 or 10.3m in 2011? Answer: MORE GUNS MORE CRIME.
Only when you cherry pick a start year when crime began it's decline from the gun enhanced upswing, can you speciously contend a drop in crime & rates.

excop: I want to be able to decide to protect myself and my family. Why do you wish to take that choice away from me? Don't I have the right to defend myself? If you don't want to, no one is forcing you to do so.

Specious smarm, as if anyone needed an assault rifle to defend himself outside a bona fide battlezone. How many guns you have? vesus how many assault rifles you have? which of your guns are threatened to be taken away? when did you switch sides to become a 'democrat'?
(edit to jmg, hijacked your post jmg, hope you don't mind - jimmy the unorthodox).

[hack89]

20. I see you are ignoring that peak in 1991

Murder rate = 9.8
Murder rate = 24,700


So are you saying we have fewer guns now then we did in 1991? Why did our murder rates start a 20 decline in 1991?

[jimmy the one]

27. why harp on DC then?

hack: I see you are ignoring that peak in 1991 .. So are you saying we have fewer guns now then we did in 1991? Why did our murder rates start a 20 decline in 1991?

Boomerang: Why did murder rates in DC start a dramatic 20 yr decline in 1991? when it's handgun ban was in effect? Reread previous post on cherry picking; Using your reason, why do you all harp about DC then?
DC... pop ...... totalcr... viol.... prop ... murder (RATES)
1962 -784,000-- 2,832 -- 605 -- 2,226 - 11.6 -handgun increases in DC
1976 -702,000-- 7,083 - 1,481 - 5,602 - 26.8 -handgun ban start
1991 -598,000- 10,768 - 2,453 - 8,314 - 80.6 -crime peaked
2008 -590,074- 6,561 -- 1,442 - 5,119 - 31.5 -handgun ban lifted
2011 -617,996-- 5,997 - 1,202 - 4,795 - 17.5
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/dccrime.htm

From 1991, your 'start year', to 2008 wen DC handgun ban lifted, murder rate in DC is down from 80.6 to 31.5, better than halved. This dramatic decline while DC handgun ban in effect. Do you see what I'm driving at now?
From 1962 to 1976, pre handgun ban, the national gunstock doubled & DC's murder rate went from 11.6 to 26.8, also doubling**. Why did DC murder rate double?
All you can point to is the handgun ban period, 1976 - 2008, where murder rate went from 27 to 31, near parity, but that would be ignoring, as you say, the 80.6 rate of 1991.

So if you want to tout gunstock increases being the reason for national murder rate falling from 1991 levels to now, you should attribute DC handgun ban for the same thing in DC.
It was the dramatic INCREASE in availability of guns in DC in the 60's & early 70's which helped cause the dramatic increase in violent crime, property crime, & total crime rates & murder rates to 1976. Higher rates increased thru 1991 but more guns also continued to proliferate.
asterisk: **(DC being invested by Md & Va where guns easily x'd borders, saw dramatic increase in handguns in DC, likely much more than doubled, I lived there about then.)

[hack89]

28. I am saying gun.ownership rates are irrelevant to murder rates.

more guns did not lower America's murder rate. The 1991 peak was the height of.the crack epidemic. That is what drove crime rates and the response to it is what reduced murder rates.

America is a significantly less violent country then it was 20, 30, even 40 years ago. And guns and control have little to do with it.

[CokeMachine]

21. More YAWN from you.

You can do better, keep trying!!!

[rdharma]

19. What ridiculous BS! Almost dumber than the "My rights trump your dead" video!

Infantile and disgusting!

[CokeMachine]

22. Pot, kettle and all!!

You can do better, well maybe not!!

[DWC]

23. This statement is solid

middle America.

Its logic is irrefutable All of the vulgarities, insults, and miss-direction / re-direction tactics in the world can not change that fact.

The attitude presented in this video represents the opinion of the vast majority of Americans that anti-gun "wingers" alienate with their elitist, Big Brother Knows Best demands.

Semper Fi,

[rdharma]

24. Middle America.......

...... or the opinion of the like-thinking gun lovers that you surround yourself with?