CNN: Washington FBI confirms no AR-15 used in Navy Yard attack

[hack89]

https://twitter.com/PamelaBrownCNN/status/379960354841047040

[mikeysnot]

1. Well thank Jesus that it was not an AR-15...

just proving that all guns are dangerous in the wrong hands whether they are long or short guns...

Time to reign them all in...

[hack89]

3. I am all for rigorous background checks and taking guns away from mentally ill people.

Perhaps a database to track people with mental health issue like NY uses.

[gejohnston]

5. problem is,

the VA diagnosed his schizophrenia but was still able to keep his security clearance. His family knew about his schizophrenia. Nobody did shit. My problem with NY's is does it include minor depression?

[hack89]

7. The NY database is for mental health professionals to report potentially violent people

it is not a database of every patient.

[bobclark86]

18. My dog can get a security clearance...

pretty much every E-1 (that's getting off the bus at basic training) qualifies for a security clearance. Tim McVeigh had a security clearance.

They hand those things out like candy when you show up.

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. I don't think he was diagnosed schizophrenic....have not read that anywhere

there are other things that cause delusions and hallucinations..

[bossy22]

8. it allears most of the killing was done with the cops gun

He shot one officer with a shotgun and then used the officers handguns to shoot at the other people

[NYC_SKP]

2. If only we'd resurrected the Assault Weapons Ban!!!11!!

NRA NRA FUCK THE NRA.



Seriously, how are we ever going to solve the complex problem of gun violence in America if we're in a perpetual state of pants-wetting?

Complex long-term culturally-entrenched problems are never solved by emotional or political quick fixes.

Dozens of good ideas are discussed on these boards practically every day, only to be shot down by one-liners.

Sometimes it's not worth even trying.

[rl6214]

4. Not gonna hear any of the anti gun nuts comment on this or edit their posts

(Ahem, 6pak).

[krispos42]

6. Somebody should probably update this

AK-47s are so passe nowadays...

[Starboard Tack]

9. Wow! I'm surprised to see you stooping to that level

Do you really think knowledge of weaponry is essential when reporting mass killings? Do you care if it's an SUV or a compact that hits you or if the reporter got the color wrong. I could understand if you were reading Field and Stream, maybe, but it's really sad to see folk resort to blaming the messenger in a sick attempt to mitigate these tragedies.
"Oh, thheygot the gun model wrong, so we can all go home and forget about it" like it never really happened.

[gejohnston]

11. research and professionalism

both of which is sadly lacking in the news business. If it could have policy and political implications, the answer to your question is yes.

[Starboard Tack]

21. I disagree

Most people don't care about makes and models of guns, just as they don't care about makes and models of NASCAR cars. When there's a mass killing, the only relevance is how many died and how many would likely have died, had he used an AR-15

[gejohnston]

25. What did Jefferson say about an informed electorate?

Last edited Tue Sep 17, 2013, 05:23 PM - Edit history (1)

A true Jefferson fan would get where I'm coming from.
how many had died had he used an AR the same number. The handguns were stolen from the gate guard. It was speculated that the nonexistent rifle was also stolen from the guard, which would have been an M-16A2. That is an important difference. One I can buy in Cabelas, the other I would have to go to some back alley in a really dumpy part of town, even in Wyoming.
Also, guns and cars are a two different things.


Since the gun prohibition lobby does not have any valid arguments on their side, and depend solely on logical fallacies, name calling, appeal to emotion, and out right lies, I understand where you are coming from.

[Starboard Tack]

39. No, sadly, you have no idea where I'm coming from

Nobody with an ounce of integrity gives a shit what make, model or fancy number the guns had.

[gejohnston]

41. Much was made of the make and model of the gun used at Sandy Hook

Last edited Fri Sep 20, 2013, 05:33 PM - Edit history (1)

by the gun prohibition lobby. Of course, the lobby jumped on the ban band wagon as soon as some reports claimed this guy had an AR and mostly shut up when he didn't. Now the lobby's leader was called out by CNN of all places when he tried to convince people that "assault weapons" were full auto. I think I do get where you are coming from. Or you finally get where I'm coming from.

[Jenoch]

42. If nobody cares about themake and model

of the weapons used, why is it important to the anti-gun people that a specific model is used for such crimes. In the most recent incident the make and model was so important that it was claimed to have been used (AR-15) when in fact it was not used.

When there are political ramifications the facts are even more important. The facts are always important in a news story. In fact, the make and model of cars involved in news stories are usually mentioned and can be important to the story.

[doggie breath]

37. so true...

I have never heard Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge at any of the NASCAR races I have been at.

[krispos42]

12. Yes, it is.

You can't effectively regulate what you don't understand.

And if the media is doing a shit job of reporting, then we get a shit debate. So if the corporate media is feeding into whatever frenzy occurs, how can the people have information to make decisions?

So yeah, it matters. Would you accept such a level of reporting by the corporate media on, say, Occupy Wall Street? Remember how the corporate media reported on stuff like rape and drug use? Do you think that such crappy reporting negatively affected public perception of OWS and led to public indifference when the police brutalized Occupy protests over the next two months?

It matters that the AR-15 is one of the most popular centerfire rifles sold in the country, so OF COURSE it's going to be commonly used in any shooting activity. But does the media report this? I'm watching MSNBC right now, and I have yet to hear how there are millions of them in circulation right now.


If every single shooting is attributed immediately to the AR-15 or the AK-47, or "assault weapon" (remember, the Newtown shooting wasn't done with an assault weapon), then the corporate media is not informing debate, it is forming opinion and creating an alternate reality.

Remember, now, that because of this "minor" mistake, most of the country thinks an AR-15 was used at the Navy Yard, and will still think this a year from now and a decade from now.

[Starboard Tack]

22. And your point is what exactly?

An AR-15 isn't necessary, unless you want to kill even more people?
Your argument is absurd and is more likely to result in more restrictive gun legislation.

[gejohnston]

26. If you want kill even more people

you do what the last two mass murderers did in Australia: arson.

[krispos42]

35. If the people don't understand the issue...

...they don't know when the politicians are shoveling a load of bullshit.

The 1993 ban on "assault weapons" was bullshit. But ignorant people were not informed (are still not informed) about the issue by the corporate media and the politicians they pander to, and the people bought the bullshit. To this day, the politicians that shoveled the bullshit 20 years ago are still flogging the bullshit after every gun crime.

Unless you think the REAL problem in Newtown was that cumstain's rifle had a protruding pistol grip...?

[petronius]

14. It's sort of funny: I often notice gun control advocates argue that the specific

details don't matter, the technical details are just gun porn, the exact make and model are irrelevant, and so on. But then I see other gun control advocates making very specific statements about how the AR-15, or the AK-47, or the .223/5.56, or the 'assault weapon' is specifically dangerous and in need of regulation. It's a disconnect, for sure.

Bottom line, the details do matter in a discussion of policy, which is what this forum is about. And you are mistaken to think that anyone is using those details to mitigate or dismiss the human tragedy in these events...

[rl6214]

15. It was handguns, no rifle even involved

[Nuclear Unicorn]

36. I'm solidly anti-ban, pro-RKBA but the ROFL smilies are unseemly

I hate to come off as a prude but we are dealing with human tragedy here. Families are still crying themselves to sleep at night. Please -- and I'm only asking -- please be more mindful.

Thank-you.

[kudzu22]

19. Why report any model name at all?

If it doesn't matter to the story, then why report any model name at all? Especially if you don't know for sure what was used.

[Eleanors38]

38. "knowledge of weaponry?" Certainly. If you propose bans that's "common sense."

[Starboard Tack]

40. "If" being the operatiive word.

[HolyMoley]

10. More info

Sorry to dampen a perfectly good witch hunt.

HIS WEAPONS

What we know: Federal law enforcement sources say authorities have recovered three weapons from the scene of the mass shooting, including one -- a shotgun -- that investigators believe he brought in to the compound. The other two weapons -- handguns -- the sources say, may have been taken from guards.

What we don't know: The sources, who have detailed knowledge of the investigation, cautioned that initial investigation information that an AR-15 rifle was used may have been incorrect. It is believed that Alexis had rented an AR-15, but returned it before Monday morning's shootings. Authorities are still investigating precisely how many weapons Alexis had access to and when.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/us/navy-yard-shooting-knowns-unknowns/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Authorities believe he brought the shotgun to the Navy Yard with him and then acquired two other weapons -- an AR-15-style assault rifle and a handgun -- as he began the spree, taking one of them from a police officer he shot.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/17/20535835-alexis-had-access-card-for-navy-yard-investigators-look-for-motive?lite

[Starboard Tack]

23. OK, that makes AR-15s OK and handguns bad?

You guys are digging your own holes. Enjoy!

[gejohnston]

24. he got the handguns from the gateguard

so, what's your point?

[Starboard Tack]

30. He had a CCW permit

Regardless of where he got the guns, he was part of the culture that resolves conflict with guns and lived in a country that endorses that kind of behavior. You reap what you sow. Shit like this will continue until the mentality changes. I wish you all the best of luck.

[DonP]

31. Suuuure he does, and yesterday he had an AR15 and we had to hurry up and ban them

Then we found out that was all wrong and just something the media pulled out of their nether regions.

Jumping to conclusions seems to be about the only exercise the "gun control activists" get these days. No actual results legislatively or judicially but I guess it's very cardio-aerobic.

I'll wait another day or two to see if he really had a permit or if it's just another PoS reporter that made something up of whole cloth. "Because if it's in a newspaper or online it must be true".

And if he does have a permit, aside from encouraging you to lecture everyone here condescendingly, that will help us do exactly what????

[gejohnston]

32. nonsense

the only culture that "resolves conflicts with guns" in the US is the gang and drug culture. Please, you know better than resurrect that canard. So, does England endorse machine gunning kindergarden teachers like Sabrina Moss? Seems like UK has more machine gun crime than the US. Odd for a country that jails people while taking their packaged kitchen knives from the store to home, and view a Swiss Army knife or Leatherman as a dangerous weapon.
http://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/crime-court/sabrina_moss_killed_by_man_armed_with_a_mac_10_submachine_gun_and_a_shotgun_in_kilburn_1_2364559

He had a CCW permit, which was not valid in DC. He had a security clearance too, and was a Buddhist. Broad brush smear of the most law abiding set of people based on a black swan event by one individual who heard voices only he could hear. There is a logical fallacy for that.

Please, not even a dim bulb like Piers Morgan is going to touch that one.

[gejohnston]

33. Piers Morgan claimed that he legally bought an AR in Virginia

But then Piers brought up the debunked Mother Jones "study". Hint: partisan hacks are not journalists nor are they criminologists or mathematicians. Fact is, while the number of mass killings are steady, the number of deaths vary widely. At most a 100 people are killed in a year by mass murder. 100K dies of avoidable medical mistakes every year.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-17/mass-shootings-fuel-fear-account-for-fraction-of-murders.html
There was no AR there.
Wait, if he is a resident of Texas, with a Texas CCW permit, then he could not have legally bought any gun in Virginia. He told RI cops that he was being commanded by microwaves. If he is a Virginia resident, why would he have a Texas CCW? Texas has more stringent training requirements than most states.

[Jenoch]

43. " I wish you all the best of luck."

Does this mean you are leaving us? Or were you never one of us to begin with?

[Starboard Tack]

44. By "you all", I mean those who like to carry in public.

I am not one of those and hopefully never will be.

[Pullo]

13. I'm sure DiFi will be disappointed n/t

[DonP]

16. She already made her regular demand for a new AWB yesterday, just after lunch.

I expect to get a fund raising letter from her momentarily.

Right after Bloomberg demands shotgun control at his press conference.

[HolyMoley]

17. I'm not sure if the subject of UBC's and mental health records

will be brought up this legislative session.
But if it is, she'll (and probably Carolyn McCarthy as well), be guaranteed to fuck it up by throwing in the AWB and "hi-cap" magazine monkey wrench.

Also expect Micheal Bloomburg to put his 2 cents in (or in his case, $2,000,000), as well (if he hasn't already).

[DonP]

20. Addressing "Mental Health" issues only lasted about 36 hours after Newtown

After that, it just disappeared into the maelstrom of, "which guns do we ban first".

If you bring up mental health issues now, as in other threads in GD I've seen today, you are accused of; "spouting NRA talking points".

[shadowrider]

28. Seems everything is an "NRA talking point". I've asked several anti-gun people

to tell me what argument I could use they would NOT consider an NRA talking point and, not surprisingly, never received a response to any request.

[DonP]

29. Same thing if you ask them for an actual example where the NRA actually said that

Crickets!

But they're getting frustrated now.

The guy never used a rifle AR or otherwise and they got all excited when they thought he did. Plus he doesn't fit neatly into their typical "Southern Knuckle Dragger Gun Nut" stereotype they do seem to love so much that some regularly post pictures. (I'm suspicious that those are actually from the poster's family album).

I've learned to just shut up for at least 24 to 48 hours when any incident hits the news to wait and let the stupidity that is today's media sort itself out. In less than a day here on DU we went from "3 guys with assault rifles that we need to ban" to "one guy with a shotgun and two pistols he took from the guards he ambushed and shot".

And even the clueless ones, that actually thought every soldier, marine and sailor routinely walks around in "full battle rattle" on base, are getting quiet.

Next will be a series of demands/requests/suggestions in the ATA forum and GD that we close the Gungeon and get rid of all those NRA lovers/shills/posers/people and just have Castle Bansalot for 2nd amendment discussion ... between all 5 active members.

[HolyMoley]

34. And they'll just wipe the egg off their faces like they always do

and find some other 2nd amendment dragon to slay with the same results.

It's kind of tragic, sad in a funny kind of way.