Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumSecond Amendment applies to carrying guns in cars
I concur in judgment only on the basis that I would conclude that the individual right to bear arms contained in the Second Amendment extends to motor vehicles .
Because the statutes at issue in both Heller and McDonald dealt specifically with handgun restrictions within the home, the courts central holdings in those cases did not define the outer limits of the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. However, the Heller court did undertake a careful and deliberate analysis of the meaning of both the prefatory and operative clauses of the Second Amendment, and concluded that the amendment, at its core, ensured the individual right of all Americans to have and carry weapons in case of confrontation. Heller, 554 U.S. at 579603. While the court acknowledged that the right was not unlimited, it repeatedly emphasized that the Second Amendment secured an individual right that existed outside the context of an organized militia, and that the individual right to bear arms existed for self-defense purposes. Undoubtedly, in light of the Supreme Courts decision in Heller, [t]he Second Amendment is now clearly an important individual right, which should not be given short shrift.
As the Seventh Circuit has observed, one doesnt have to be an historian to realize that a right to keep and bear arms for personal self-defense in the eighteenth century could not rationally have been limited to the home. Moore v. Madigan, 702 F.3d 933, 936 (7th Cir. 2012). It is axiomatic that the need to act in self-defense may arise outside the confines of ones home, and specifically in a motor vehicle. The Ohio General Assembly expressly acknowledged this reality by enacting R.C. 2901.09(B), which provides that a person who is lawfully an occupant of either a residence or vehicle has no duty to retreat before using force in self-defense or defense of another.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/07/second-amendment-applies-to-carrying-guns-in-cars/
The backlash continues.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)take your gun in a bar as long as you don't drink. (Why the hell would you go to a bar and not drink) and drive loaded for bear just in case someone puts you in fear of your life while driving.
Well I don't go to bars but it isn't comforting knowing there are gun nuts on the road with me carrying their courage on the seat beside them.
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)The Supreme Court interprets "bear arms" as the right to mount weapons on your vehicle.
hack89
(39,171 posts)however, I don't think it will happen.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)The prohibitionists have a sad, and you're not helping...
beevul
(12,194 posts)Interesting that they post "gun porn" when they haz a sad...
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)clffrdjk
(905 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)a lot of pics of horses, but the first is of a vehicle used for hunting the rough flats of Florida. I have a detailed description of the vehicle in an old hunting text. Most were based on Model T touring cars, had jumbo radiators, "granny" gears, shielding for the motor, set up higher, and with tougher tires. Seats were affixed to the top, cabinets attached, and cages for dogs installed.
The vehicle gave way to Jeeps.
As a kid, I was classmates with some fellows who used more austere Model As for jumping after rabbits. They would ride the running boards (driver operating the hand spark advance), and when a rabbit jumped out, they would in turn jump off the moving car & take a shot. The car would poot along till it hit a stump -- or palmetto -- and stall. Repeat as necessary.
DonP
(6,185 posts)He's got a fully restored M38A1 Jeep with a Browning 30 cal air cooled on a swivel.
He uses it for parades and such. I can't recall any riots starting yet, but based on some comments here, I'm investing in Depends stock pretty soon.
Always a conversation starter when he pulls it out to wash it in the Summer.
Packerowner740
(676 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Including my own beloved-of-gun-control-advocates Massachusetts...
If you didn't know that already, you might want to research the gun laws
that already exist.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)people with guns would do it anyway.
And I can think of hundreds of things I'd rather do than research gun laws.
hack89
(39,171 posts)just waiting to break the law or shoot someone, correct?
You fringe gun grabbers are funny as shit.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)I use to live in Ohio almost everyone who I knew that owned a pistol had it under the seat.
hack89
(39,171 posts)you sound like a caricature of a loony gun grabber instead of someone interested in rational conversation.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)push me more toward their opposition.
I don't like gun violence and I don't like being around people carrying guns.
There is no rational conversation here because neither side can get the other to budge off their point
hack89
(39,171 posts)then I doubt it because of pro-gun posters. You could still be vehemently opposed to guns without being insulting, patronizing and bigoted.
Just a thought.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)I guess you just like carrying a gun I case some tin can or pop bottle that needs plinking shows up.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...to protect ones' self in certain situations
Next question?
hack89
(39,171 posts)I enjoy target shooting - when I am not at the range my guns are looked up in a safe.
I do have a CCW permit - there was a time when I needed it but now I just keep it current on principle.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)I like target shooting also. I use to own 20 acres in the lower Sierra Nevada and made my own shooting range out behind the house. It was really in the boonies and no owe was bothered by it.
I also had a bow target range.
"You fringe gun grabbers are funny as shit."
No, we think those who feel they have to take their paranoia AKA "guns" with them EVERYWHERE are funny. I couldn't care less if every gun owner got their little toys taken away either. Some day, it WILL happen. Us majority of sane people will do it.
hack89
(39,171 posts)DonP
(6,185 posts)Any minute now ... somebody somewhere will start circulating those petitions to repeal concealed carry ... as soon as they get money from Bloomberg to pay for it because gun control fans certainly don't intend to put their own money into this. It's only been 25+ years since it started, I'm sure there's somebody out there ready to go to work on repealing it. Right?
That's why none of our brave gun control supporters here actually seem to belong to any organized groups that involve membership (and dues), at least the last time anyone asked none of them did.
It's much easier to tell us off in terse, angry online prose how the "tide has turned" and "90% of people agree with them" than to actually do anything in the real world. They just never seem to show up at gun control gatherings ... or the voting booth it seems.
You guys keep up the good work!
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)However, I personally prefer to leave "willful ignorance about what I comment
upon" to religious fundamentalists and Tea Party members and embrace learning
about a subject, however distasteful.
I recommend the same approach to everyone.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)clffrdjk
(905 posts)I plan on giving my guns a good education and a safe place to live. I have found that they are far less likely to commit crimes if they have a bright future to look forward to. I do worry about my Jennings though he seems a little off I think I will have to send him to the gun smith to help him with his issues.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)to combat gun violence. To each his own.
clffrdjk
(905 posts)Oh it doesn't include removing, limiting, or infringing on another persons rights that must be the issue. Please what is your plan maybe I can use that to fix my plan? But I can tell you with absolute certainty that none of my guns have ever committed a crime so it seems to be working. Now if only everyone would be so responsible.
Why would anyone choose to be ignorant of a topic that they want to discuss? I can't fathom that mindset.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Because their minds are already made up and they do not wish to hear or see
anything that conflicts with their deeply held prejudices...
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Like gunners thinking gun violence isn't their problem.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)There's even an analog (pun intended) to the NRA for us digerati
- the Electronic Freedom Foundation:
"Defending Your Rights In The Digital World"
https://www.eff.org/
The FBI/NSA/et cetera undoubtedly feel they are impeding "the fight against computer crime"-
EFF sues them on a regular basis and often wins
Do you think the EFF are harming the public with their stances?
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Certainly I won't be taking the "attempting to fight crime by criminalizing the currently legal"
approach beloved of prohibitionists.
And now it's your turn- What's your plan to combat gun violence?
sarisataka
(18,654 posts)and drank not one drop of alcohol
-I was driving
-I was carrying
-I choose to drink very rarely, perhaps once a year.
There are reasons to go to a bar that do not involve drinking.
I did get to see Gina Niemi paint the model for this:
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)That is why we don't care to listen to you, all you do is insult, and then cry alligator tears when you are ignored.
elleng
(130,901 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)that the only place they could imagine having guns is a person's house?
The issue at hand is whether the 2A extends beyond the limits of one's home. What do you think the founders had in mind?
elleng
(130,901 posts)is what I've had in mind. I disagree with the Supreme Court's Heller decision.
clffrdjk
(905 posts)Well armed, fighting force made up of civilians? Yea sounds like a great idea but umm you need to repeal some gun laws before it will work.
hack89
(39,171 posts)The Democratic Party platform says the same thing.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)United States Code, 2011 Edition
Title 10 - ARMED FORCES
Subtitle A - General Military Law
PART I - ORGANIZATION AND GENERAL MILITARY POWERS
CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA
Sec. 311 - Militia: composition and classes
From the U.S. Government Printing Office, www.gpo.gov
§311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
(Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, 70A Stat. 14; Pub. L. 85861, §1(7), Sept. 2, 1958, 72 Stat. 1439; Pub. L. 103160, div. A, title V, §524(a), Nov. 30, 1993, 107 Stat. 1656.)
I take it you will be working to eliminate the sexist and ageist language in the above...
elleng
(130,901 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)and at the same time restrict arms in vehicles.
ileus
(15,396 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Why shouldn't the right to have tools for self-protection not be a portable one, at least in-state?
My concern is how the details differ from state to state-- do I stow in trunk or glove compartment, pull over and shift things at state border?