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hack89

(39,171 posts)
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 01:12 PM Feb 2014

Second Amendment applies to carrying guns in cars

So say two of the three judges on an Ohio Court of Appeals panel, in State v. Shover (Ohio Ct. App. Feb. 5, 2014) (Carr, J., concurring in the judgment, with Hensal, J., agreeing on this score) (some paragraph breaks added) — and generally quite correctly, it seems to me:

I concur in judgment only on the basis that I would conclude that the individual right to bear arms contained in the Second Amendment extends to motor vehicles….

Because the statutes at issue in both Heller and McDonald dealt specifically with handgun restrictions within the home, the court’s central holdings in those cases “did not define the outer limits of the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.” However, the Heller court did undertake a careful and deliberate analysis of the meaning of both the prefatory and operative clauses of the Second Amendment, and concluded that the amendment, at its core, ensured the individual right of all Americans to have and carry weapons in case of confrontation. Heller, 554 U.S. at 579–603. While the court acknowledged that the right was not unlimited, it repeatedly emphasized that the Second Amendment secured an individual right that existed outside the context of an organized militia, and that the individual right to bear arms existed for self-defense purposes. Undoubtedly, in light of the Supreme Court’s decision in Heller, “[t]he Second Amendment … is now clearly an important individual right, which should not be given short shrift.”

As the Seventh Circuit has observed, “one doesn’t have to be an historian to realize that a right to keep and bear arms for personal self-defense in the eighteenth century could not rationally have been limited to the home.” Moore v. Madigan, 702 F.3d 933, 936 (7th Cir. 2012). It is axiomatic that the need to act in self-defense may arise outside the confines of one’s home, and specifically in a motor vehicle. The Ohio General Assembly expressly acknowledged this reality by enacting R.C. 2901.09(B), which provides that a person who is lawfully an occupant of either a “residence” or “vehicle” has “no duty to retreat before using force in self-defense or defense of another.”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/07/second-amendment-applies-to-carrying-guns-in-cars/

The backlash continues.
46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Second Amendment applies to carrying guns in cars (Original Post) hack89 Feb 2014 OP
Yea for road rage aficionados now you can upaloopa Feb 2014 #1
Next up SecularMotion Feb 2014 #2
That would be worth it just to hear the heads exploding everywhere. hack89 Feb 2014 #3
Show a little compassion, you insensitive lout! friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #6
Interesting that they post "gun porn"... beevul Feb 2014 #21
That was "gun porn?" They should see a "palmetto jumper." Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #38
Google and yahoo have failed me, I have no idea what you are referring to. clffrdjk Feb 2014 #41
Try: palmetto jumper hunting images. You will get Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #44
The neighbor has one! DonP Feb 2014 #10
LOL rrneck Feb 2014 #5
I loved that show while growing up. Packerowner740 Feb 2014 #46
Better quit driving then- guns in cars are legal in most states friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #4
I'm sure if it was illegal to carry guns in the car upaloopa Feb 2014 #7
Because every gun owner is a pre-criminal hack89 Feb 2014 #8
I own a gun and am not a gun grabber. upaloopa Feb 2014 #9
Then why the over the top hyperbole? hack89 Feb 2014 #12
Ever since Dec 2013 the supporters of gun rights here upaloopa Feb 2014 #15
If you are that easily pushed towards irrationality and rudeness hack89 Feb 2014 #18
If it isn't to shot people why do you have a gun? upaloopa Feb 2014 #11
Because fine words, a commanding tone of voice, and rapier-sharp wit may not actually work... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #14
I don't carry in public - I live in a safe area hack89 Feb 2014 #16
Well your my kind of gun owner. upaloopa Feb 2014 #17
LOL! Politicalboi Feb 2014 #29
"Just you wait" - the motto of gun control for 20 years and counting. nt hack89 Feb 2014 #31
"Just you wait" - Ain't that the truth! DonP Feb 2014 #37
You are free to research (or not research) whatever you wish friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #13
what is your plan to combat gun violence upaloopa Feb 2014 #20
Well I don't know about him but for me. clffrdjk Feb 2014 #22
So I don't read gun laws and you don't have a plan upaloopa Feb 2014 #23
What is there something wrong with my plan? clffrdjk Feb 2014 #24
"Why would anyone choose to be ignorant of a topic that they want to discuss?" friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #27
You can say that about a lot of things upaloopa Feb 2014 #39
Is computer crime your problem? You (presumably) own a computer, do you not? friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #45
The same plan that I have to combat computer crime-by not committing any friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #25
Spent all day at a bar on Saturday... sarisataka Feb 2014 #19
Why always the insults? oneshooter Feb 2014 #28
Sure, because the Founders SURELY had that in mind! elleng Feb 2014 #26
So the founders could not imagine guns outside the home in carriages and wagons? hack89 Feb 2014 #30
'A well regulated militia' elleng Feb 2014 #32
So a well functioning clffrdjk Feb 2014 #33
"I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms." Barack Obama hack89 Feb 2014 #34
Fortunately, we've got one and it has tens of millions of members: friendly_iconoclast Feb 2014 #35
Yes. elleng Feb 2014 #36
You can't have a Christian salad bar of unacceptable sites in which to carry, Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #40
If our lives are worth anything outside of our homes, why wouldn't it? ileus Feb 2014 #42
Another no-brainer. Of course it does. Many of us live our lives on a highway. NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #43

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
1. Yea for road rage aficionados now you can
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 01:36 PM
Feb 2014

take your gun in a bar as long as you don't drink. (Why the hell would you go to a bar and not drink) and drive loaded for bear just in case someone puts you in fear of your life while driving.
Well I don't go to bars but it isn't comforting knowing there are gun nuts on the road with me carrying their courage on the seat beside them.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
3. That would be worth it just to hear the heads exploding everywhere.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:09 PM
Feb 2014

however, I don't think it will happen.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
6. Show a little compassion, you insensitive lout!
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:17 PM
Feb 2014

The prohibitionists have a sad, and you're not helping...

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
21. Interesting that they post "gun porn"...
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 03:31 PM
Feb 2014

Interesting that they post "gun porn" when they haz a sad...


 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
44. Try: palmetto jumper hunting images. You will get
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 10:36 PM
Feb 2014

a lot of pics of horses, but the first is of a vehicle used for hunting the rough flats of Florida. I have a detailed description of the vehicle in an old hunting text. Most were based on Model T touring cars, had jumbo radiators, "granny" gears, shielding for the motor, set up higher, and with tougher tires. Seats were affixed to the top, cabinets attached, and cages for dogs installed.
The vehicle gave way to Jeeps.

As a kid, I was classmates with some fellows who used more austere Model As for jumping after rabbits. They would ride the running boards (driver operating the hand spark advance), and when a rabbit jumped out, they would in turn jump off the moving car & take a shot. The car would poot along till it hit a stump -- or palmetto -- and stall. Repeat as necessary.

 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
10. The neighbor has one!
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:30 PM
Feb 2014

He's got a fully restored M38A1 Jeep with a Browning 30 cal air cooled on a swivel.

He uses it for parades and such. I can't recall any riots starting yet, but based on some comments here, I'm investing in Depends stock pretty soon.

Always a conversation starter when he pulls it out to wash it in the Summer.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
4. Better quit driving then- guns in cars are legal in most states
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:12 PM
Feb 2014

Including my own beloved-of-gun-control-advocates Massachusetts...

If you didn't know that already, you might want to research the gun laws
that already exist.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
7. I'm sure if it was illegal to carry guns in the car
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:22 PM
Feb 2014

people with guns would do it anyway.
And I can think of hundreds of things I'd rather do than research gun laws.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
8. Because every gun owner is a pre-criminal
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:27 PM
Feb 2014

just waiting to break the law or shoot someone, correct?

You fringe gun grabbers are funny as shit.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
9. I own a gun and am not a gun grabber.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:30 PM
Feb 2014

I use to live in Ohio almost everyone who I knew that owned a pistol had it under the seat.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
12. Then why the over the top hyperbole?
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:33 PM
Feb 2014

you sound like a caricature of a loony gun grabber instead of someone interested in rational conversation.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
15. Ever since Dec 2013 the supporters of gun rights here
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:39 PM
Feb 2014

push me more toward their opposition.
I don't like gun violence and I don't like being around people carrying guns.
There is no rational conversation here because neither side can get the other to budge off their point

hack89

(39,171 posts)
18. If you are that easily pushed towards irrationality and rudeness
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:45 PM
Feb 2014

then I doubt it because of pro-gun posters. You could still be vehemently opposed to guns without being insulting, patronizing and bigoted.

Just a thought.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
11. If it isn't to shot people why do you have a gun?
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:31 PM
Feb 2014

I guess you just like carrying a gun I case some tin can or pop bottle that needs plinking shows up.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
14. Because fine words, a commanding tone of voice, and rapier-sharp wit may not actually work...
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:39 PM
Feb 2014

...to protect ones' self in certain situations

Next question?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
16. I don't carry in public - I live in a safe area
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:42 PM
Feb 2014

I enjoy target shooting - when I am not at the range my guns are looked up in a safe.

I do have a CCW permit - there was a time when I needed it but now I just keep it current on principle.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
17. Well your my kind of gun owner.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:45 PM
Feb 2014

I like target shooting also. I use to own 20 acres in the lower Sierra Nevada and made my own shooting range out behind the house. It was really in the boonies and no owe was bothered by it.
I also had a bow target range.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
29. LOL!
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:28 PM
Feb 2014

"You fringe gun grabbers are funny as shit."

No, we think those who feel they have to take their paranoia AKA "guns" with them EVERYWHERE are funny. I couldn't care less if every gun owner got their little toys taken away either. Some day, it WILL happen. Us majority of sane people will do it.

 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
37. "Just you wait" - Ain't that the truth!
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 07:35 PM
Feb 2014

Any minute now ... somebody somewhere will start circulating those petitions to repeal concealed carry ... as soon as they get money from Bloomberg to pay for it because gun control fans certainly don't intend to put their own money into this. It's only been 25+ years since it started, I'm sure there's somebody out there ready to go to work on repealing it. Right?

That's why none of our brave gun control supporters here actually seem to belong to any organized groups that involve membership (and dues), at least the last time anyone asked none of them did.

It's much easier to tell us off in terse, angry online prose how the "tide has turned" and "90% of people agree with them" than to actually do anything in the real world. They just never seem to show up at gun control gatherings ... or the voting booth it seems.

You guys keep up the good work!

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
13. You are free to research (or not research) whatever you wish
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:36 PM
Feb 2014

However, I personally prefer to leave "willful ignorance about what I comment
upon" to religious fundamentalists and Tea Party members and embrace learning
about a subject, however distasteful.

I recommend the same approach to everyone.

 

clffrdjk

(905 posts)
22. Well I don't know about him but for me.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 03:42 PM
Feb 2014

I plan on giving my guns a good education and a safe place to live. I have found that they are far less likely to commit crimes if they have a bright future to look forward to. I do worry about my Jennings though he seems a little off I think I will have to send him to the gun smith to help him with his issues.

 

clffrdjk

(905 posts)
24. What is there something wrong with my plan?
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 04:23 PM
Feb 2014

Oh it doesn't include removing, limiting, or infringing on another persons rights that must be the issue. Please what is your plan maybe I can use that to fix my plan? But I can tell you with absolute certainty that none of my guns have ever committed a crime so it seems to be working. Now if only everyone would be so responsible.

Why would anyone choose to be ignorant of a topic that they want to discuss? I can't fathom that mindset.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
27. "Why would anyone choose to be ignorant of a topic that they want to discuss?"
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:07 PM
Feb 2014

Because their minds are already made up and they do not wish to hear or see
anything that conflicts with their deeply held prejudices...

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
45. Is computer crime your problem? You (presumably) own a computer, do you not?
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 10:44 PM
Feb 2014

There's even an analog (pun intended) to the NRA for us digerati
- the Electronic Freedom Foundation:

"Defending Your Rights In The Digital World"

https://www.eff.org/

The FBI/NSA/et cetera undoubtedly feel they are impeding "the fight against computer crime"-
EFF sues them on a regular basis and often wins

Do you think the EFF are harming the public with their stances?

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
25. The same plan that I have to combat computer crime-by not committing any
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:04 PM
Feb 2014

Certainly I won't be taking the "attempting to fight crime by criminalizing the currently legal"
approach beloved of prohibitionists.

And now it's your turn- What's your plan to combat gun violence?

sarisataka

(18,654 posts)
19. Spent all day at a bar on Saturday...
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 02:59 PM
Feb 2014

and drank not one drop of alcohol

-I was driving
-I was carrying
-I choose to drink very rarely, perhaps once a year.

There are reasons to go to a bar that do not involve drinking.
I did get to see Gina Niemi paint the model for this:

oneshooter

(8,614 posts)
28. Why always the insults?
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:24 PM
Feb 2014

That is why we don't care to listen to you, all you do is insult, and then cry alligator tears when you are ignored.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
30. So the founders could not imagine guns outside the home in carriages and wagons?
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:33 PM
Feb 2014

that the only place they could imagine having guns is a person's house?

The issue at hand is whether the 2A extends beyond the limits of one's home. What do you think the founders had in mind?

elleng

(130,901 posts)
32. 'A well regulated militia'
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:39 PM
Feb 2014

is what I've had in mind. I disagree with the Supreme Court's Heller decision.

 

clffrdjk

(905 posts)
33. So a well functioning
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:50 PM
Feb 2014

Well armed, fighting force made up of civilians? Yea sounds like a great idea but umm you need to repeal some gun laws before it will work.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
34. "I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms." Barack Obama
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:54 PM
Feb 2014

The Democratic Party platform says the same thing.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
35. Fortunately, we've got one and it has tens of millions of members:
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 06:57 PM
Feb 2014
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title10/html/USCODE-2011-title10-subtitleA-partI-chap13-sec311.htm

10 U.S.C.
United States Code, 2011 Edition
Title 10 - ARMED FORCES
Subtitle A - General Military Law
PART I - ORGANIZATION AND GENERAL MILITARY POWERS
CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA
Sec. 311 - Militia: composition and classes
From the U.S. Government Printing Office, www.gpo.gov

§311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

(Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, 70A Stat. 14; Pub. L. 85–861, §1(7), Sept. 2, 1958, 72 Stat. 1439; Pub. L. 103–160, div. A, title V, §524(a), Nov. 30, 1993, 107 Stat. 1656.)


I take it you will be working to eliminate the sexist and ageist language in the above...
 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
40. You can't have a Christian salad bar of unacceptable sites in which to carry,
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 07:58 PM
Feb 2014

and at the same time restrict arms in vehicles.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
43. Another no-brainer. Of course it does. Many of us live our lives on a highway.
Mon Feb 10, 2014, 10:35 PM
Feb 2014

Why shouldn't the right to have tools for self-protection not be a portable one, at least in-state?

My concern is how the details differ from state to state-- do I stow in trunk or glove compartment, pull over and shift things at state border?



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