It's Official: SYG is legalized murder

[jpak]

and it's open season on young black men in Floriduh.

Who could have foreseen this?

[Lizzie Poppet]

1. Oh, right: that SYG law that wasn't invoked in either high-profile case.

I can see how a law that neither defense team elected to invoke as part of theif defense would constitute "legalized murder.'

Oh, wait...

[Glenn Vardy]

8. Oh, right: that SYG law that exists whether it's invoked or not.

Oh, right: that SYG law that wasn't invoked in either high-profile case.

The Court doesn't ignore a law even if a defendant is advised not to mention it. The judge did mention it in the Zimmerman case.

[Lizzie Poppet]

9. And it may be fair to say that knowledge of the law exists in the shooter's mind, too.

I doubt that the existence of such a law is anything they consciously consider when preparing to draw and fire (and if it is, that's some cold-blooded shit right there...), but it may have a subconscious effect...hard to say.

But my point remains: in neither of the two high-profile Florida cases was invoking SYG a part of the defense strategy.

[Eleanors38]

10. So take SYG away. Think things would be different?

If someone shoots another, and there is the slightest chance self-defense could be argued, a defense attorney is going to say to his/her client "Oh, wait! The state of _________ doesn't have a SYG law. Too bad for you"?

[gejohnston]

13. You are partly correct

once you move the bullshit of the lazy media, half witted pundits and bloggers, or anti self defense propagandists out of the way,
you don't "evoke SYG". SYG simply means you don't have a duty to retreat. No more, no less. That is either common law or statute in 33 states and is the common law on the federal level. Most of them dating back to the Progressive era, but SYG has existed in US law for 130 years. If you happened to be in a duty to retreat state, it only applies if:
you possibly can
or if retreating won't put you in same or greater danger.
The State has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't self defense.
In Florida, if you claim self defense, you can request an immunity hearing, that is where the misnomer "evoking" myth comes from. Either way, it is part of the jury instructions.
In the Zimmerman case, SYG is irrelevant for two reasons: one, he didn't request an immunity hearing even though I think he would have won.
Second, he had no ability to retreat. Two prosecution witnesses testified they saw Trayvon pounding Zimmerman's head in the sidewalk (to be fair, one witness said the "larger one was on top, but assumed that Zimmerman was the one on top based on the photo of Trayvon when he was 12) (that is also the same story they told the cops), the physical evidence backed it up, and you have the screaming for help in the 911 calls from both witnesses. Tracy Martin told the cops and the court that it wasn't his son screaming for help.

[ileus]

2. Any proof?

[clffrdjk]

3. It's jpak he doesn't provide proof or even reason he just trolls

Yup

[ileus]

6. those toter gunner baser racists....

[spin]

4. In eight years since the Stand Your Ground law passed in Florida ...

a total of 43 black individuals were killed by people of all races who claimed SYG as a defense. Eleven cases involved a white person who was the shooter. Twenty nine were black on black altercations and three involved a Hispanic shooter and a black victim.

While tragic in some cases, it really doesn't appear that the SYG law has resulted in an "open season" on back men in "Floriduh."

The data comes from the excellent interactive report published by the Tampa Bay Times. If you actually take time to read the report you will find good reason to support rewriting the SYG law in Florida as its wording and the interpretation by the legal system have resulted in a number of questionable decisions.

http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases

Of course if you are opposed to any legitimate form of self defense involving firearms, nothing I can say will alter your opinion.

[jpak]

14. Cool Body Count - a Big Win for Gun Nuttery

yup

[gejohnston]

15. Most of them were African Americans

defending themselves, have a problem with that?

[jpak]

16. All of them are dead thanks to SYG

yup

[gejohnston]

17. but without SYG,

those people, most of them black, who defended themselves against gangs and racists would either be dead or in jail because of unjust and not evenly applied duty to retreat rule, assuming Florida had a duty to retreat before the law.

[jpak]

18. Yeah - tell that to Davis or Martin

Oh wait....

[gejohnston]

19. SYG had nothing to do with either

one was murder with a jury that can't decide between first and second degree, the other was unable to retreat. Neither are relevant. Neither are remotely similar.

[Packerowner740]

5. Where is it official, other than your word.

I don't like SYG laws so a link showing it as official would be appreciated, otherwise your title is just an opinion.

[gejohnston]

7. How about the other 32 SYG states?

Oh wait, you didn't know California is a SYG state? It has been since 1895. Sorry, truth is the media rarely tells the truth about a lot of things. Partly because of politics, mostly out of laziness.
Truth is most Florida self defense cases are African Americans against other African Americans. Most of the rest is white v white.
One case appears to be murder. The other would have been justifiable under duty to retreat.

Just because someone claims self defense, it doesn't mean it is. Just because the media claims SYG has something to do with it, it doesn't. Usually the opposite is true.

[Eleanors38]

11. Stirring. Stirring. Stirring down the river...

[Boom Sound 416]

12. What state is yours?

[Straw Man]

21. How about this one?

In Florida, the debate over the controversial stand your ground law isn’t just over the law, but over the law’s application. More specifically, the debate centers on why some people, like Marissa Alexander, go to jail for standing their ground, while killers like Zimmerman are allowed to walk free.

Another Florida case which may force even more attention on the law and its application is that of ex-Army Captain Valerie Ann Lowe, 53, who has been charged with second degree murder after shooting and killing her husband, 59 year old Laurence Edward Daly, on Wednesday night.

http://breakingbrown.com/2014/02/ex-army-captain-stands-her-ground-against-allegedly-abusive-husband/

I submit that it is not the law that is the problem, but rather the selective manner in which it is applied.

Care to comment?

[gejohnston]

22. in all fairness

the details of the cases are totally different. Alexander walked passed her husband to the garage to get the gun. That removes the "imminence" principle.
http://lawofselfdefense.com/the-five-principles-of-the-law-of-self-defense-in-a-nutshell/

Each of these cases are individual cases with their own facts. The media seems to think every self defense claim is a "stand your ground" case. All it really means is no duty to retreat, even though every case I know of in Florida, defenders either couldn't or tried to retreat. For example Gabriel Mobley is a Miami area African American who shot two attackers (one black one white). While the media would claim, if it made national attention, that he "invoked SYG", which is true only in that he requested and won an immunity hearing, meaning it didn't go to trial. On the other hand, he made efforts to escape or retreat until he had to shoot, so it wasn't really a SYG scenario.
In Dunn's case, if there really was a shotgun (there wasn't) you can't reasonably retreat from a shotgun, so DTR wouldn't apply even if it was the law.
Since there was no shotgun, and every bit of evidence contradicts his claim, SYG doesn't matter because there was no threat, so committed murder

I submit the problem isn't the law or its application, the problem is the media's ability report accurately and honestly.