Guns and Fun Unter dem Totenkopf

[SecularMotion]

Shown above are three images from Assemblyman David DiPietro’s (R-Gunhug) recent gunapalooza fundraiser. A supporter posted them to Twitter, and they seem to have been taken during the “free gun” portion of the event.

Note the skull & crossbones – the Totenkopf - behind DiPietro. Reading “2nd Amendment 1789 America’s Original Homeland Security”, that flag is as ugly and ominous, and makes believe we still live in a postrevolutionary frontier. Our original homeland security was made up of state militias, well-regulated.

It must be so horrible to live a life so perpetually in fear of imminent danger and violence that you feel the need to arm yourself to the teeth, and then tell people it’s all about “sportsmen”. Then, when Cuomo says a sportsman doesn’t need 10 bullets to kill a deer, you mock that. Because it’s isn’t about sportsmen or target shooting or hunting, it’s about protecting yourself from Obummer and Hitlery Klintoon and il Duce Cuomo.

I don’t have a problem with legitimate sportsmen or people who want to keep a gun in their home for protection. I do have a problem with the paranoid freaks who demand the right to own an arsenal so they can kill all the people. I have a problem with nuts like the guy in Minnesota who, sick of break-ins, sat in the dark, with tarps at the ready, to shoot and kill the next people to do so. Now, he only used one gun that he purportedly kept in his house for “protection”. If you listen to the nauseating audio of the actual double murder, towards the end he gives a speech. In it, he regurgitates all the NRA propaganda he can muster. You get a window into what it’s like when the gun lobby takes a legitimate self-defense right and turns it into a license to murder.

http://blogs.artvoice.com/avdaily/2014/05/06/guns-fun-under-the-totenkopf/

[rrneck]

1. Christ in a sidecar...

Last edited Wed May 7, 2014, 03:59 PM - Edit history (2)

This is a Totenkopf.




This is the event in question.



This is a Jolly Roger. Yarrrrrrr.



And here's a Jolly Roger with crossed swords.



Now, why did I go to all this trouble? It's not that I expect any intellectual integrity from the OP. But any outfit that calls itself ArtVoice should be able to use the Google machine to verify the relevance of the iconology they are using as an example. Any stupid asshole can leap to a godwin at the sight of a skull and crossbones to make some insipid point about their favorite evil totem.

I don't know who this DiPietro character is and I don't care. He's just some asshole on the back side of nowhere trying to hustle up a buck in public office. The country's full of them. Nor do I care what Sec drug up from the bottom of the internet barrel to spam a group on an internet message board known as a "gungeon". The members of DU won't see it, much less anybody else. If he wants to waste his time claiming turf nobody else wants that's his business. But visual illiteracy annoys me. When that shows up, stupid is sure to follow, and we've got a stampede of stupid in the linked article. Goddamn Sec, just two minutes of fact checking would save you from this embarrassment.

[NYC_SKP]

2. Check out this cool scarf, or whatever it is around the neck.

US issue. Peacekeeper Missile Uniform. Yeah, peace.

[rrneck]

3. Yanno...

I'm not the least bit afraid of militias, teabaggers, conservatives, gun nuts, and other assorted yahoos of our collective political mosh pit. All that bullshit is standard procedure. We've been there before and we're going back sooner or later.

The real danger is the bottom feeding fuckers that make a living telling people what they want to hear for a goddamn dollar. They are the ones that make bad problems several orders of magnitude worse. And the enablers that buy that bullshit should be reintroduced to whatever it was they missed in their early education.

[DashOneBravo]

17. Regs

I doubt it was issued for the Air Force.

If we couldn't put the number of jumps, blood type or what a buddy of mine had, "I survived the Gallant Eagle Death Jump", on the headband, then I see that as nothing more than a museum piece.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

27. From your own first link.

Totenkopf (lit. "skull&quot is the German word for the skull and crossbones and death's head symbols. The Totenkopf symbol is an old international symbol for death, danger or the dead, as well as piracy. It consists usually of the human skull with or without the mandible and often includes two crossed long-bones (femurs), most often depicted with the crossbones being behind some part of the skull.

It's commonly associated with 19th- and 20th-century German military use.

The OP doesn't sound all that visually illiterate to me. The wikipedia entry you link to specifically states that while it was also used in piracy, it is 'commonly associated with 19th- and 20th century military use.'

So I'm not sure what your beef is when you yourself provide links that actually agree with the OP's point and then turn around to claim he's intellectually dishonest.

[rrneck]

28. Most people are familiar with stuff like this.

http://www.religionfacts.com/hinduism/symbols/swastika.htm

The Swastika Symbol in Hinduism
The swastika (Sanskrit svastika, "all is well&quot is a cross with four arms of equal length, with the ends of each arm bent at a right angle. Sometimes the crossing lines are horizontal and vertical and other times they are an angle, forming a central "x" shape. Sometimes dots are added between each arm (e.g. the "swastika rangoli" picture below). (See more Hindu symbols)

The swastika is an ancient symbol that has been found worldwide, but it is especially common in India. Its name comes the Sanskrit word svasti (sv = well; asti = is), meaning good fortune, luck and well-being. This original meaning of the swastika is a far cry from Western associations of the symbol, which are largely negative. (Also see Hindu beliefs and Hindu fast facts)

The swastika is most commonly used as a charm to bring good fortune (in which case the arms are bent clockwise), but it has a variety of religious meanings as well, which are described below.

Nobody that sees a swastika or anything that remotely looks like it thinks about anything but Nazism. The Nazis own it. Nobody that sees a skull and crossbones thinks "Nazi" unless they are reaching for tortured iconological relationship to push an agenda. You can try it yourself. Get a tee shirt with a big Jolly Roger on it and walk down the street. See how people react. Then do the same wearing a tee shirt with a big swastika on it. Would you be comfortable doing that?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

30. First

I don't wear shirts with pictures on them - I like solid colours.

But putting aside your hypothetical experience, my suggestion is that I don't know what informed the choice of a skull with crossed automatic weapons as a logo for the group. I didn't see any other suggestion that they thought of themselves as 'pirates'. Your argument seems to be that because Disney has made pirate movies a pop culture phenomenon, the group obviously chose a logo they associate with pirates, and think others will associate with pirates.

Prior to the recent upsurge in 'pirate movies', the most common usage of skull iconography I saw in culture was by biker gangs and other thugs - sometimes even by people wearing old surplus German spiked helmets.

Of course, whether you want to claim the influence was 'Nazis' or 'pirates', both groups were terrorists who went around killing and stealing. So do you really think that claiming the origin of the symbol was 'pirates' makes it any better of a visual choice for their logo? Either way they're threatening death and trying to intimidate their chosen victims.

[IronGate]

33. There is this also.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

36. Yup, that's bad too.

And makes explicit the exact threat implicit in all of those sorts of logos. "If you oppose us, we will kill you"

Does that really sound like a good logo for a group unless they want to terrorize the people they see as their opposition?

[IronGate]

37. It's not endorsed by the Marine Corps.

more likely by a former Marine, although, once a Marine, always a Marine.

[rrneck]

45. 1st Reconnaissance Battalion United States Marines

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1st_Recon_Bn_Color.jpg

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

47. And again, you make my point.

A group that is promoting the fact that they're deadly, and going to kill their foes.

So what message do you think the gun group is promoting with their use of a similar logo?

[rrneck]

48. That they are dangrous.

Are they politically dangerous or actually dangerous? If they had actually used a recognizable symbol of Nazism they would be considered both. As it stands now it's just a bit of hyperbole since the same symbol can be seen at the Pirates of the Caribbean ride at Disneyland.

Symbols have a wide range of cultural meanings and the kind of obtuse literalism you display here will not serve you well.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

49. Well then we partially agree,

although I think you're the one being obtuse if you think that using a skull and crossed guns is not meant to indicate violently dangerous.

If they wanted to indicate political power they might have chosen something like a gun over a copy of the bill of rights, or a gun and a pen, such as might sign legislation. Instead, they chose as threateningly violent an image as they could.

[rrneck]

50. Wrong. You are wrong.

If they wanted to choose the most threatenly violent image they could, they would have chosen the image with which the author of that stupid article tried to associate them, which is the point any number of people have been trying to make.

[rrneck]

44. Most people are familiar with stuff like this.

Thought Experiment

Try not to be obtuse. I asked you if you would be comfortable walking around in public with the universal symbol of Nazism on your chest.

The skull and crossbones significantly predates it's use by the German military.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_crossbones_%28symbol%29


At Mission Santa Barbara, a religious outpost founded in California in 1786, stone "skull and crossbones" carvings denote the cemetery entrance.

The skull and crossbones is the symbol for any number of things from poison to piracy. It is part of the more generalized Memento mori or Danse Macabre and when the symbol is seen the breadth of it's iconology is such that it is not commonly associated with an obscure bit of Nazi regalia.

And of course the most obvious evidence of intellectual dishonesty by the writer of the linked article is the fact that the totenkoph does not actually resemble the skull and crossbones motif in the "second amendment" flag. The crossbones are very short and behind the skull, while the flag has replaced the crossbones with shotguns and placed them in the traditional skull and crossbones location. The totenkoph is an adaptation of the much older skull and crossbones symbol. Also, the skull in the totenkoph is viewed slightly in profile, while of course the "jolly roger" skull is viewed head on. The author had to reach a long, long way to associate some gun rights group with Nazism, and the OP took the bait hook line and sinker, going so far as also trying to associate the group with the Ku Klux Klan in post #5.

Or do you think the pilot of this aircraft is a Nazi?


A US Navy F/A-18F Super Hornet aircraft assigned to the "Jolly Rogers" of Strike Fighter Squadron 103 (VFA-103), prepares to launch from the flight deck of the Nimitz-class Aircraft Carrier USS Dwight D. Eisenhower, 2006.

What would you think if a swastika appeared on that vertical stabilizer?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

46. As I point out in my replies to others

I don't consider pirates any 'better' than Nazis. To my mind, they were both groups of murderous thugs who went around raping, killing, torturing. So the 'jolly roger' is just as distasteful to me.

I tend to follow the philosophical line of thought that what people do matters more than why they do it. I don't really care why you murdered someone or cut off their hand. You still committed an act of evil. They're still dead or maimed, whether you did it because 'God told you to', because you wanted their money, or because you think that some tiny snippet of their DNA shouldn't exist. Nazis were evil murdering sons of bitches, and so were pirates, no matter what Hollywood or Disney wants you to think.

Since you're fond of asking questions, why do you think that group chose to incorporate a skull and crossed automatic weapons in their logo? Do you think they think of themselves as happy Disney-style pirates? Or do think that just maybe they're saying 'Mess with us and you'll be shot dead?' Take 'nazis' out of the picture entirely, and is the symbol used as the group's logo any less threatening?

[rrneck]

51. They're saying "We're dangerous".

Do you consider the founding fathers terrorists? They used privateers.

During the American Revolutionary War, the Continental Congress, and some state governments (on their own initiative), issued privateering licenses, authorizing "legal piracy", to merchant captains in an effort to take prizes from the British Navy and Tory (Loyalist) privateers.

It's intellectually dishonest to mix and match iconological symbols for your own partisan ends. Privateers in the eighteenth century were not Nazis. Hyperbolic political statements by a private gun club is not an endorsement of fascism and genocide.

I would suggest you go and at the very least read some of the links I have provided before you embarrass yourself further. Here is another good book that might help. You're not making any sense and you've got some catching up to do.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

57. Yes, I do.

I know all about lettres of marque. Just as I know about the long history of American icons in using terrorism to achieve their goals. George Washington was known as 'Townburner' to the Iroquois for his policy of slaughter, and used legal trickery to keep from having to keep his slaves from being freed when he was in a state in which all slaves residing in the state were to be free after 6 months. The 'Founding Fathers' were not all sweetness and light.

Your argument now seems to be that the brutal acts of terrorism used hundreds of years ago were good because they were perpetrated even by 'the founding fathers'?

I'm consistent. Terrorizing, maiming, murdering is bad, no matter who does it.

You're the one who wants to keep trying to find ways to glorify evil acts committed by groups you feel I should approve of, while disparaging those committed by people you find the most distasteful.

[rrneck]

59. So, do you think that

we should assume anyone who using a symbol associated with violence harbors evil intent and literal violence?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

60. I think that

more likely than not, you'll find that those who do at least fantasize about using violence. I'm sure you can cherrypick some specific groups that use such symbols, like Hindus using swastikas, which were around long before Nazis, for whom it's not a 'symbol of violence'. And when you add the tools of violence, like guns, swords, bombs, into the mix, I think it's even more likely that that groups that use both the symbols *and* the tools of violence are going to be far more likely to consider using actual violence to achieve their ends.

[rrneck]

61. Good to know...

[font color="red" size="50pt" face="face"]Erich Bloodaxe[/font]

Geez, I don't mind fish in a barrel but do you have to make them catfish?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

62. Huh?

I don't follow the reference.

And despite my name, I'm essentially a pacifist. Violence is a failure of society.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

63. Oh, I got it now.

My name is a 'symbol'. But I don't carry around an axe, nor use weapons such as swords, guns, or bombs.

So I've only got the 'symbol' without the associated tools.

[rrneck]

64. No, I don't think you do.

Your words:

I think that more likely than not, you'll find that those who do at least fantasize about using violence.

We aren't talking about the implements of violence, but the intent motivating the use of certain symbols. Sometimes people choose symbols with confusing or poorly thought out cultural associations and are thereby misunderstood because of them. So the name Erich Bloodaxe can, in the eyes of the more sensitive and suspicious partisans here, bring to mind a whole slew of white racist and neo Nazi associations. Whether that is your intent or not is beside the point, I can almost guarantee it will happen. Take it from a guy that calls himself rrneck.

If you don't like being associated with the White Aryan movement you can imagine how those people in upstate New York would feel about being associated with Nazis. That's why the article linked in the OP and the unfortunate association made by the OP in post #5 are blistering examples of intellectual dishonesty.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

65. Um, I 'call myself' Erich Bloodaxe because it's my actual name.

I'm not hiding behind a pseudonym like 'rrneck'.

I've never heard of the racist 'Erik Bloodaxe', nor would I guess had my parents.

The only other 'modern' 'Erik Bloodaxe' I'd heard about was a hacker, because when I first started posting online, I got people telling me the hacker would think I was pretending to be him and would screw up my credit and hack my credit cards. Neither of which ever happened'.

I'm not going to change my name simply because some loon chose to use a similar variant to spew racist garbage. There are plenty of racists with far more generic sounding names out there too.

[rrneck]

66. It doesn't matter. You're stuck with it.

You can only hope that people won't draw the wrong conclusions because of it. Such are the dangers of intellectual dishonesty. Willfully misinterpreting cultural symbols, like associating privateers with Nazis or members of a gun club with same, is a dangerous business. You never know who you'll offend.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

73. Whatever.

I'm pretty sure I haven't offended anyone here that I would have any respect for in real life.

[rrneck]

75. Not yet. Just stick around.

Sometimes all you have to do is show up around here to offend someone. The point is that the vast majority of cultural symbols are fungible. Their meanings can be interpreted in many different ways depending on the context. Some are so distinctive that they defy reevaluation. It's kinda shitty to godwin people like that.

Hell, if you're not pissing somebody off you're not getting the full effect.

[gejohnston]

52. two things

pirates of that era sometimes worked for governments, and the navies of those governments were not much better.
While the logo of the gun club has pump shotguns, not automatic weapons.
I kind of like this one:

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

53. One man's freedom fighter is another man's death squad.

I'm well aware of the practice of giving letters of 'marque', to allow brutal thugs to terrorize people of other nations in the name of 'freedom!'.

And that the navies back then were barbaric and brutal not only to their enemies, but often to their own crews.

I thought we'd maybe gotten a bit more civilized than that.

[gejohnston]

55. they didn't bother bullshitting the average person about freedom

they did it for money and empire, and were more honest about it.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

58. That's true.

but I'm not sure the victims would really care why they died or were maimed.

[IronGate]

29. Do you think this post is intellectually dishonest?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172145326#post5

Do you think it's intellectually dishonest to not edit or delete that post when it's been pointed out that his conclusions are completely wrong?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

32. The one you link?

Yes. You also don't add + signs to KKK. That particular post was totally nonsensical.

But why are you singling out me to ask that question? I made no indication that I agreed with it, nor disagreed with anyone else pointing out the numerous flaws with it. Am I expected to always comment on stupid posts, even if other people have already addressed all of the reasons it makes no sense?

[IronGate]

35. Just checking.

Thanks for the reasoned and civil answer.

[SQUEE]

31. Totenkopf as a word now has a very specific cultural meaning.

A swastika is not always a hakenkreuz, and the sigue runes in KISS, they are just a lapse in judgement from Chaim Witz and Stanley Eisen.

And a Jolly Roger is most definately not a collar insignia from the einsatzgruppen, and anyone with little fucking honesty will admit it was done to tie gun owners to the fucking Nazis, more gun grabber slight of hand and bullshit, and to me a fucking insult, considering I have family that knows first hand what that God damned word really means and stands for..

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

34. And as I note in my next reply to rrneck

Pirates were no better than Nazis. They went around terrorizing, killing, and stealing.

Does it really matter which band of raping thieving murderers the logo came from? Either way, the intent is to provide a warning and threat to potential victims that opposition means death.

[SQUEE]

38. I just have to ask

You are saying that from your point of view, pirates and Nazism are pretty much the same to you?

I am going to say you did not mean it the way you phrased it.

Culturally we do not view them in anyway equivalent, I can't recall a fun family venue at DisneyWorld called Uncle Adolfs crowded cattle car ride...
The purpase of the headline was to link in peoples minds gun owner= Nazi, and you damn well know it.

[IronGate]

39. I agree, and for that very reason,

the host of this group should take a hard look at SecMo and maybe consider giving him the boot from this group.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

40. The 'third reich' killed more people, and were far more efficient about it

and did it based upon ideology about 'racial purity'.

Pirates killed fewer people, and did it for personal profit.

Do you think it mattered to the people killed why they were killed?

Pirates have been 'glamourized' in the same way that 'mobsters' have been in pop culture.

But the reality was not 'Jack Sparrow' and 'Captain Hook'.

So yeah, to me, pirates are just as bad as Nazis. Evil people who killed other people for bad reasons.

No matter how many happy fun movies they make about pirates, or how many pirate rides show up at Disney parks.

[SQUEE]

41. Yes sir i do think it mattered to people how and why they were killed, and it SURE AS FUCK MATTERED

TO THE SURVIVORS why they were tortured, emasculated, sterilized, stigmatized ,robbed of their dignity and belongings, and lives.

Holy shit, for you to come on here, and say that high seas piracy is fucking equitable with FUCKING GENOCIDE, and the only difference is in the damn numbers is one of the most despicable loads of bull shit I have seen from a poster..

but to the point


Do you know admit that the op, and the article itself are linking Nazi and gun owner

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

42. That's their privilege.

They can care 'why' their relatives were killed or tortured.

I disagree with your implication that pirates who went around killing and torturing people for fun and profit were any better than people who killed because they bought into stupid 'racial purity' arguments. I'm against murder for any reason.

I don't 'admit' anything about the OP's ideation, because I don't know the OP. What I will agree with is that the article the OP quoted from makes a link that, based on the choice of 'totenschadel' as opposed to 'jolly roger' linked nazi murdering bastards to gun owners as opposed to piratical murdering bastards to gun owners, as you seem to think somehow is 'better'.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

43. sorry, 'totenkopf', not 'totenschadel'.

I didn't remember which was used while writing that, and just went with the german word for skull, not head.

[Lizzie Poppet]

56. Irrelevant (obviously).

The assclown who wrote that deliberately inflammatory headline was rather obviously intending to make the Nazi link. That link is clearly inaccurate, as others have pointed out. Pirates and Nazis may indeed have significant similarities in actuality, but the cultural imagery of the two is radically different. Whether that difference is historically doesn't change that one bit.

[DonP]

4. I think you have the Waffen SS mixed up with the Pirates of the Caribbean ride

Use some of the Google Fu time to do some searching for accuracy next time.

Unless of course, you want to share family albums like one of our banned members?

[SecularMotion]

5. Notice how they covered up the 1st K with the gun tag in the top photo

K+K+K

[beevul]

6. Not likely.

I'm pretty sure that K+K signifies K & K of New York, which is an FFL.

Besides, there isn't room enough for another "+" and another "K" of equal size and spacing, underneath that tag, without it being visible to the left of the tag.


Nice attempt though.

[ileus]

12. Remember all gun owners are racist...and it's a well known internet truth.

Just ask anyone from the South...

[blueridge3210]

13. Wait, SecMo actually had a comment? (NT)

[ileus]

14. The old "A lie will be halfway around the world...." quote fits best here.

[blueridge3210]

16. One step at a time.

Post now, truth later. lol

[DonP]

7. Did you buy those "X Ray" specs from the back of a comic book?

Or are they standard issue to inept gun control fans?

[blueridge3210]

10. Wait! Those don't actually work? Crap! (NT)

[Jenoch]

9. Is it possible you are just as paranoid as those you mock?

[ileus]

22. Doesn't just mock but outright LIES about.

[friendly_iconoclast]

18. Notice how you couldn't be arsed to Google, otherwise you would have found:

http://www.kkguns.com/index.html

K & K Guns

2720 Almeter Road
Varysburg, NY 14167

Varysburg is in DiPietro's district

And the "K & K"?

Family owned since 2003, Keith and
Kathy Kraft...

[friendly_iconoclast]

20. And just in case the post I'm referring to 'goes missing':

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172145326#post5

SecularMotion (4,739 posts) Response to DonP (Reply #4)

Wed May 7, 2014, 04:27 PM

5. Notice how they covered up the 1st K with the gun tag in the top photo

K+K+K

[ileus]

21. SO IT WASN'T REALLY KKK GUNS AFTER ALL..........Tell Me No.

[DonP]

24. Looks suspicious, almost like K&K donated a Henry Golden Boy for a fund raiser

Obviously Klan activity. And that Pirates of the Caribbean flag is a dead giveaway that its a white power group. Everybody knows that.

[friendly_iconoclast]

67. And we all know that deer rifles with 1880s technology are markers for terrorism

Forget all those self-proclaimed militia nutcases in Nevada, it's the cowboy shooters
that bear watching!

I devoutly hope the OP returns and shares some more fruits of their keen fact-finding
skills.

[blueridge3210]

68. Return? Share? Actually comment?

[friendly_iconoclast]

69. They are probably busy tracking down the Upstate NY Klansmen...

...who seem to be doing quite a good job of keeping themselves hidden, since nobody
but SecMo has actually found them.

[IronGate]

23. HUGE FAIL ON THE PART OF SECMO.

If you combine another + sign and another K, then that price tag wouldn't cover it up.

And, if it was the KKK, why would there be + signs? Has the KKK ever used the + sign in their title?

Do I expect an apology or an edit from you? Nope, not likely.

[Lizzie Poppet]

54. Now that you've been proven to be wrong, are you going to issue an acknowledgement?

Or are you going to allow yourself to be shown to be unprincipled and unethical?

Choice is yours...but you do have to make a choice, or folks will default to the latter option.

[Duckhunter935]

76. run away, run away

Sec gets scared when confronted with facts

[Lizzie Poppet]

77. Telling, isn't it?

But hey, who are we to stand in the way of bigotry and blatant lies?

[friendly_iconoclast]

8. Bookmarking for classic antigun ranting and cultural warfare

IMHO, this ranks right up there with these classic examples of "post first, think later":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x270147

http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x285630

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022928786

I might have let it slide if the OP hadn't doubled down on their bigotry and stereotyping in post #5:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172145326#post5

[ileus]

15. Better watch out you'll get hidden for saying bigot in the wrong direction.

see what used to be post 5.

[friendly_iconoclast]

19. I'm not too worried about that- check out post #18

I will take great delight in the future asking SecMo if they have found out anything more about the
"Klansmen" from Varysburg, NY. One hopes that they will keep us abreast of developments...

[IronGate]

26. I notice that SecMo has had plenty of time to either edit or delete his post,

but hasn't yet.
Wonder why that is? Could it be that he thinks the lie will stick?

[SQUEE]

25. I am dismayed that calling out an obvious bigot, is a hideable offense

Between regionalism, racism, and bizarre sexual accusations, as well as making mockery of mental illness how is the constant stream from some posters not bigoted...

[SecularMotion]

70. What a bunch of delicate flowers!

Last edited Fri May 9, 2014, 10:15 AM - Edit history (1)

The OP is mocking a Reich Wing Republican and his gun giveaway. I could understand the butthurt if it called all gun owners Nazis, but that's not what it says.

It's quite telling who y'all choose to defend on DU.

[blueridge3210]

71. Now with the ad hominem.

Was there something you wanted to actually discuss?

[SQUEE]

72. How is IT not... and how are you via extension not making the same statement.

It IS VERY TELLING what you choose to post on this board, are you going to go all in and join your friend in saying the Holocaust and its main killers are the same as pirates?

I stand by my previous declarations on your view of your fellow Democrats.

[friendly_iconoclast]

74. Find out anything more about that "K+K+K" gun rack you mentioned?

[Lizzie Poppet]

78. Why would the opinoin of someone w/o the character to retract a slander be of any value to anyone?

Perhaps other persons of poor character might be interested...no one here is.

[IronGate]

79. What's quite telling is your refusal to either edit or delete this post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172145326#post5

Even after being shown that your premise is false.

[rrneck]

80. You're not going to talk your way out of this one.

Flee to partisan snark all you want, it won't hide the intellectual dishonesty on display here.

You can feel free to rant and rail about whatever and whoever you want, but some measure of integrity should be maintained. The fact that you would trot out such a blatant load of bullshit under your name shows your utter contempt and lack of respect for anyone who sees it. It also displays the intellectual bankruptcy of your position on the issue of firearm policy in the United States.

You are incapable of producing a cogent argument for your position so you resort to right clicking anything and everything you can in a futile attempt to make an internet forum look like something that supports your opinion. As long as the subject lines look "anti gun", you seem to think anyone that looks at it (without clicking on the thread), will think this misbegotten corner of a single website on the entire internet agrees with you.

Of course people do actually reply to your spam. You hope that somehow those replies will reveal the respondents "true beliefs" as you hope them to be. I can see you there, in the middle of the herd, peering out between the legs of the stronger animals hoping that your hoots of alarm will prompt them to drive off the source of your fear.

Good luck with that.

[Lizzie Poppet]

81. *sound of crickets chirping*

Way to out yourself, SecMo.

[SecularMotion]

82. I see the same phenomena in the Religion group

Liberal Christians attack other liberals for criticizing actions of the religious right just as liberal gun owners attack fellow liberals for criticizing right wing gun culture.

[gejohnston]

83. Most of that has to do with disagreeing with party elites on

principle and not ideology. Most people don't fall into "right" or "left" packages. Most people in either party actually fall closer to the middle. Few people fall 100 percent in to those stereotypes or even close to it. Those who do are blind followers. Not all conservatives are right wing, in fact very few. Liberal and progressive are not always synonymous. Not all liberals are progressives. Many progressives are not liberals. Narrow mindedness and bigotry are not uniquely right wing.
Based on my observation here, I would guess that these attacks you describe are actually liberal Christians defending themselves from being attacked by bigots.

[Lizzie Poppet]

84. You can pretend that's what we're criticizing all you like.

You're not fooling anyone save (perhaps) yourself.

[blueridge3210]

85. Only you didn't criticize "right wing gun culture"

You made the claim that the symbol on the flag was the Nazi "Totenkopf". Before you try to claim that it was not you but the author of the article that made the claim, please note that you posted the article with no comment on your behalf. Any reasonable person of prudent caution would make the assumption that you were in full agreement with the claim made by the article. You then tried to claim the lettering on the gun display was "K+K+K". You have had your error pointed out on both counts and refuse to acknowledge your mistake. Given the totality of the circumstances you were rightly criticized for your actions and for your ongoing refusal to actually discuss anything you post in this group. Given that you are a group host yourself, it is expected that you pay particular attention to the SOP of any other group in which you post, as you are expected to be familiar with the requirements of a group SOP.

[Duckhunter935]

86. could not have said it better

thanks

Next he/she or it will be back claiming you are disrupting the thread.

[blueridge3210]

87. He can claim whatever he likes.

As Abraham Lincoln is reputed to have said, "calling a tail a leg does not make it so". I don't generally agree with banning people except for abusive language; SecMo is testing that belief with his ubiquitous Google dumps and refusal to discuss anything he posts.

[IronGate]

88. I'm not normally a block type of person,

but after this vile, despicable thread, and your doubling down posts, I'm in favor of the host of this group blocking you from disrupting this group.
You have a very bad habit of blocking anyone who strays from the agenda of the other group, no matter how innocuous the comment might be, yet, you come into this group and allege that gun owners are nazi like thugs.

Why you're still here baffles me, but, I suspect, that will soon be remedied, or so I hope.