Florida legislature 2014 ... firearm bills, what passed and what failed. ...

[spin]

Florida Legislature 2014: What passed and what failed
Times/Herald Tallahassee Bureau
Saturday, May 3, 2014 4:19pm

Some of the bills that passed and failed in the 2014 session. Bills must be approved by Gov. Rick Scott.

***snip***

GUNS
WARNING SHOT (PASSED): Provides "stand your ground" immunity to people who fire a warning shot or threaten force; allows for expunging of court records for those who have charges dropped in "stand your ground" cases. (HB 89)

POP TART (PASSED): Prevents children who play with simulated weapons in school from facing suspension or expulsion. (HB 7029)

OPEN CARRY (FAILED): Allows people without concealed weapons permits to carry guns in declared state of emergency. (HB 209/SB 296)

GUNS IN SCHOOLS (FAILED): Enables superintendents or principals to designate school employees who can carry concealed weapons on school campuses. (HB 753/SB 968)

GUN PERMITS (PASSED): Allows county tax collectors to accept gun permit applications. (HB 523)

STAND YOUR GROUND (FAILED): Requires local law enforcement agencies to issue guidelines for neighborhood crime watch programs; revises state standards regarding use of deadly force. (HB 33/SB 130)
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/gubernatorial/florida-legislature-2014-what-passed-and-what-failed/2178190

[randys1]

1. Sadly the only way to deal with guns ultimately is let their inevitable consequence play out

Let kids shoot more kids, let dads accidentally shoot more of their kids while showing off how a scope or laser targeting system works, let more crazy people buy guns and use them to kill dozens of small children or adults or both.

We are the country that invaded Iraq based on a lie and killed over one hundred thousand men women and children, so we have no respect whatsoever for human life, that is clear.

I am surrounded by gun nuts where I am, it is very dangerous and sick.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

2. What should be done?

[randys1]

3. Do what Canada did

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

4. Which is? n/t

[randys1]

8. Read on

http://www.businessinsider.com/canada-australia-japan-britain-gun-control-2013-1

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

9. Thanks

There is no legal right to possess arms in Canada. It takes sixty days to buy a gun there, and there is mandatory licensing for gun owners. Gun owners pursuing a license must have third-party references, take a safety training course and pass a background check with a focus on mental, criminal and addiction histories.

I'm not seeing a reason in what's mentioned above about Canada not respecting a right that's worthy of emulation nor have I read that any of those measures lead to positive results.

Licensing agents are required to advise an applicant's spouse or next-of-kin prior to granting a license, and licenses are denied to applicants with any past history of domestic violence.

We have some of these measures here now.

Buyers in private sales of weapons must pass official background checks.

This has been proposed and I don't have any major issue with it.

Canadian civilians aren't allowed to possess automatic weapons, handguns with a barrel shorter than 10.5 cm or any modified handgun, rifle or shotgun.

Full autos are highly regulated and difficult to legally obtain here and are very seldom used to commit crimes. I'm not aware of a high volume of crimes committed using handguns with barrels shorter than 4 inches. ATF also has some specialized restrictions on what modifications can be made to firearms. (Add a scope to a deer rifle isn't a problem. Changing the rifle to full-auto function is a big problem.)

Most semi-automatic assault weapons are also banned. As a result of exemptions, several kinds of assault weapons are still legal in Canada, although this has been the source of some controversy.

Most guesses put the percentage of privately owned firearms in the US that operate in semi-auto mode at 60%. (about 180,000,000 rifles, shotguns and handguns)
Attaching some meaning or capability to what various folks like to call assault weapons is mostly unproductive and has no bearing on criminal use.


What I get out of all of that is that UBCs might be a good step forward. IMHO, I don't think they would hurt.
Does that about cover it?

[spin]

5. Such incidents do occur and they are very tragic. However, fortunately, they are rare. ....

Obviously if the federal government could ban and successfully confiscate all legal firearms, firearm accidents and incidents involving people with severe mental issues running amok and committing mass murder with firearms would disappear.

Unfortunately that goal is unachievable in a nation such as ours with such a strong gun culture. Despite the tragic shooting at the Sandy Hook Elementary School, gun control advocates were unable to even pass another assault weapons ban.

You state:

I am surrounded by gun nuts where I am, it is very dangerous and sick.

However I would suggest that the fact the you are surrounded by what I suspect are in reality responsible and sane gun owners might actually make you safer. Firearm ownership can be a deterrent to criminal activity. Studies have shown that violent felons in prison fear an armed citizen more than they do the police.

What really scares criminals: Armed citizens
Eric Puryear
August 10, 2009

A study shows that criminals know armed victims are not easy targets - and worry more about meeting an armed victim than being caught by the police.

Professors James D. Wright and Peter Rossi surveyed 2,000 felons incarcerated in state prisons across the United States. Wright and Rossi reported that 34% of the felons said they personally had been “scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim”; 69% said that they knew at least one other criminal who had also; 34% said that when thinking about committing a crime they either “often” or “regularly” worried that they “[m]ight get shot at by the victim”; and 57% agreed with the statement, “Most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police.” James D. Wright & Peter H. Rossi, Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms [1986]. See Guns and Public Health: Epidemic of Violence or Pandemic of Propaganda? by Don B. Kates, et. al. Originally published as 61 Tenn. L. Rev. 513-596 [1994].

I would note that this study was published back in 1994, when fewer states allowed concealed carry, and there were fewer total concealed carry permit holders in the USA. Given the increase in the number of lawfully armed citizens since that study was published, especially during the last year, it seems likely that this study's conclusions are even more relevant today.
http://www.examiner.com/article/what-really-scares-criminals-armed-citizens

Our object should be to insure as much as possible that only responsible, honest, sane and well trained citizens are allowed to legally own firearms. I feel we can make considerable progress in achieving this goal if we honestly try.

In passing, I will agree that our war in Iraq was ill conceived and unnecessary and was based on a lie.

[Eleanors38]

10. The Wright-Rossi Study should be undertaken again.

Future studies which purport to show a relationship between crime on the one hand, and gun #s/laws/CCW/etc. on the other, will probably have to deal with a tricky statiscal model based on criminal perspective & consequential behavioral change. Wright & Rossi seem to be out front in this.

[hack89]

6. With gun violence steadily declining for 20 years

Their "inevitable consequence" would appear to be a safer society.

Your fear aside, you have never been safer.

[Lizzie Poppet]

7. The types of incidents you list, combined, represent a tiny minority of firearm injuries.

Yet no word about criminal misuse, which constitutes the overwhelming majority of such incidents. Interesting...

"We are the country that invaded Iraq based on a lie and killed over one hundred thousand men women and children, so we have no respect whatsoever for human life, that is clear. "

Yes, because that totally follows, logically...

[Eleanors38]

12. "surrounded by gun nuts." I live in Texas, but don't share your "danger and sickness."

Even most of my liberal friends have guns, and I have run across very few nuts of any sort. Where do you have this problem?

[Eleanors38]

11. Of 2 laws which failed...

IMO, I think the proper agency for determining any armed defense of schools is the school board, not principals and supers.

I was under the impression that neighborhood watch programs were NGOs, and generally discourage use of weapons by volunteers. I see no reason for government agencies to involve themselves with watch programs.

[spin]

13. I believe that Neighborhood Watch groups in Florida discourage members ...

who have a concealed weapons permit from carrying firearms while on watch. I could be wrong but I don't believe it would be against the law for a volunteer with a carry permit to carry while on watch.

[Eleanors38]

14. Yeah, that's the legal unenforceability of Watch's standards

once you have legal-carry. I guess Neighborhood Watch can only formally disassociate from an armed "watcher" for liability issues, but they or anyone can't stop someone from patrolling with a gun.

[spin]

15. In some neighborhoods being a neighborhood watch volunteer might make you a target. ...

While watch members should NEVER be vigilantes, they do notify the police of suspicious activity and might be attacked in retaliation. If so they should have the ability to defend themselves by using legitimate self defense up to and including lethal force. Note the words "legitimate self defense." In my opinion "stand your ground" in Florida should never be interpreted as a right to chase down and confront in an intimidating manner.

[gejohnston]

16. only California SYG allows to chase down someone after the attack

the clock starts at the initial attack. Nothing before is legally relevant in SYG or DTR.

[Eleanors38]

17. I agree. Self defense should not be an abstract notion.