Gun control as part of an effort to reduce violence
In a thread I claimed that gun control as a goal does not do enough to reduce overall violence. Killing by other means is no more acceptable. The efforts to achieve the strongest gun control is counterproductive to reducing the factors causing violence, especially among youth.
This does not mean that gun control cannot be a part of the effort as gun violence is a serious issue.
Below I copy my argument to allow discussion and critique
Gun use is a valid early target. MADD has shown the way to success. Have a focused, teen & YA targeted ad campaign to change the attitude that guns make you tough and solve problems. That demographic thinks of immediate gratification and needs to be repeatedly reminded that actions have consequences.
Another educational/ad campaign targeted at a step younger audience teaching that violence is the worst solution to conflicts. Equality is a better route to empowerment than domination.
Invest money into youth programs and community activities. These have shown past successes in bringing groups together to compete and bond in athletics rather that posture and fight out of boredom.
Last, most expensive and most difficult is investiture in the social safety net. We need to limit how far people can fall to a level higher than despair. When people pass that level those who would prefer to be law abiding will turn to crime.
To bring it home, Democratic losses at the top, gun control level, where they have the least effect cascade down, preventing success at promoting the lower level polices. It is the base policies where we will have the greatest success at the reduction of violence and helping the most people.
These are just sample ideas. I'm sure more savvy people can come up with far better than my simple brainstorm.
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But that's just silly, and for reasons that you've already described.
More than anything, gun violence is an outcome of many social conditions. Take guns away and the conditions and despair will still be there.
Treat the conditions and, voila, huge drops in gun violence and other kinds of violence, happier kids, happier communities, and healthier, too.
It will take a lot of work, but one of the most important things to do toward that progress will be to find that common ground.
...'cause when the goin' gets tough...
While I didn't see any gun selling to toddlers programs, I did find a scholarship program.
I support any opportunity for students of any age to be recognized for writing a persuasive essay, in this case on the importance of one of the Ten Amendments to the Constitution.
The theme for the essay is "What Does The Second Amendment Mean to You?"
There's two divisions: grades 9-12 and grades 8 and lower.
So, they are PAYING LITTLE CHILDREN TO WRITE ESSAYS!!!11!
How many military style assault rifles do you think are in private hands?
all the respect they deserve 
-do not make GC the key to the agenda. Make it about crime and violence, with GC as a part of a comprehensive whole. Usually the approach is GC now then we will look at other options, that makes people nervous.
-join with any "pro-gun" group willing to lend its support, even if tangentally connected to the NRA. Both MN and MA have had success this year passing legislation re domestic violence and tightening control on gun sales
-flagrantly steal from the NRA play book- work at the state level and be inclusive of the sane majority of gun owners (Think of the NRA's PR campaign I am the NRA- grandfathers, housewives average Joes. It pulls people in. "Gun nuts" and "potential criminals"- not so much.
-get started on the youth programs ASAP. We can shit money for a plane that catches fire; force our legislators to squeeze harder for kids. It will be an easier sell to oppose the GOP as being against kids rather than too pro-gun.
-talk direct to MADD. They don't like DD deaths so there is a commonality of interest. Find out what they have had the greatest success with and run with that to reach kids.
For myself, I continue to speak against violence and attempt dialogue with GCers (sometimes more than less) I also speak to other gun owners, instructors and my students about how the common sense (UBC and safety) is in everyone's best interest. It is the talk we talk and so we should walk the talk. A law that says secure your gun is no different than what we peach to each other constantly- safety first. Also, I point out not all Dems/liberals are the enemy; many of us are gun owners. (That is an easy thing to do in MN. We're quite blue and have lots of guns)
No and yes. I am seriously suspicious of anything connected to Bloomberg and his groups go much farther. ARS seems to be quite palatable and I do contribute/ promote them.
This goes back to the trust building. AWB had no measurable effect and it is questionable if limiting magazine sizes would do any better. Also the more things being pushed is more to push back against. The effort to reach the goal is more than the potential return. Yes, I am potentially talking lives but that is cold hard fact. Getting nothing instead of all will cost more lives.
The "to begin with" implies that as soon as this is law there will be another coming down the pipes. Again, makes gun owners nervous, gives the NRA a propaganda bonanza and there never is an answer to "where is the end". Obviously the only true answer would be a total ban because something more could be done until that level is reached. It is a trap. A better reply is -once programs are in place and we see the benefits of actions taken we will look if there are other options that increase public safety while respecting rights. Less of a soundbite but it shows commitment to looking for positive change through all avenues.
One- the "b" word comes up, sphincters pucker and ears stop listening. WLP goes on a frothy tirade and everything else gets lost in the ensuing mudfest
Two- the more something is limited, the more people want it. Pre-94 you could hardly give away an AR or AK clone; I recall them available for less than $200. Since then price and demand have skyrocketed and it's a gotta have for many folks. Avoid the subject and let interest wither. It will never go completely away as the genie is out but it removes the gotta-get-em-before-their-gone myth.
As I said earlier, some of the calculations are cold. Yes I think every death whether gun, knife or fists is tragic. I would love to see the total reach zero but I know it never will. Therefore I look to what will have the greatest impact.
-preach guns are not a solution
-teach respect
-get youth busy instead of idle
-empower people
-institute common sense controls that can have measurable effect
-build trust on both sides of the issue to go further forward to a common goal
It is a long road and won't be easy but we can start immediately. In the end we will have less violence, less death, maybe less guns but they will be in the hands of more responsible gun owners.
As a side benefit, by having more Democrats elected we expand the social safety net which helps reduce crime, violence...
I relinquish the soapbox for the night
who are shy of joining but our talk may stimulate ideas in others.
True, a part of the NRA is the lunatic fringe; GOA is way past the fringe. OTH the 'classic' NRA does still exist, teaching about safety and promoting shooting sports. There are sportsmen and recreational shooters who have serious issues with NRA political positions but maintain membership to avoid diluting influence. That is the group to appeal to. As we have seen, they will break away from the NRA-ILA line in the sand stance and support good policies. It leaves the hard-core NRA two options- ignore the matter and move on or repudiate the breakaway and risk loosing membership. To date they have chosen ignore.
There s a lot of debate among gun owners about teaching youth. Some are the old enough to stand, old enough to learn; other say wait until they are teens. Most everyone agrees it is ultimately the parent's choice but start with BB/pellet guns and allow progress from there. The overwhelming majority agree handing a pre-teen an automatic weapon is insanity. Unfortunately it only takes a few with different ideas to set up a tragedy. That is definitely something peer pressure needs to be applied to put to an end.
While the two components of ET have some checkered history, the message has been reasonable. I really like some of the ads they have produced. Other ads have fallen flat. I fear the baggage they have is too much to overcome; that is why I think ARS has the best chance of bring the two sides together.
So true about the NRA power. Much relies on smoke and mirrors. Yet like a good magician, if you get the audience to believe then it is magic. I think it would take only a few more successes of pro/anti gun/GC groups working together to put a serious dent in the image the NRA speaks for a monolithic block of gun owners. Also the more successes will lead both sides to realize that we can work together. Rights and responsibilities are not mutually exclusive.
The GOP is an irony I often hit on in discussions. It may be true the Clinton signed the bill but it was started and pushed from the other side of the aisle. The majority of the most sweeping gun control laws have come from Republicans. Unfortunately the smoke and mirrors has had great success at making people ignore history.
Oh it seems lively, just not productive We are all in the habit of pulling each other's tail. We still can work together 
...that you're working against folks with the simplest brainstorm: "Too many folks are getting shot; remove all guns from public hands." I'm sure these folks are amused for hours on end playing whack-a-mole.
Granted.
"While those groups play their games the adults can have conversations and get some work done."
Sounds good.
Do you mean Surface to Air Missle?
Yes, extremists are in both camps.
Separating oneself from the problem children is a great idea.