Veteran, former cop sues Cuomo, state officials for taking his guns after he sought treatment for...

[beevul]

ROCHESTER, N.Y. (CN) - New York state is collecting confidential information on mental health patients to create a database of people it deems unfit to carry a firearm, according to a federal class action.

Lead plaintiff Donald Montgomery claims the state created a reporting system, as part of the New York Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement Act (Safe Act), that forces health professionals to transmit mental health patients' confidential information to a database shared by various government agencies, including law enforcement. It was part of the state's response to the rash of mass shootings over the past several years, in particular, that in Newtown, Conn.

Montgomery, a Navy veteran and retired police officer, claims defendant Eastern Long Island Hospital incorrectly labeled him as an "involuntary admission," leading to the revocation of his pistol permit and his handguns being seized by the Suffolk County Sheriff's Department, on orders from the New York State Police.

"The New York State Police sent a letter to the Suffolk County Clerk's Office wrongfully stating that the plaintiff 'has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution' and that the plaintiff was prohibited from possessing a firearm, rifle, or shotgun," the complaint states.

"The NYS Police have taken the position of directing local law enforcement agencies and offices to conduct warrantless searches and seizures of the homes and personal properties of persons reported through MHL 9.46 to seize all firearms and licenses."

http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/12/22/patient-calls-ny-info-sharing-unconstitutional.htm

Just to be clear, Mr. Montgomery had 4 handguns confiscated after police tracked him and his guns using the NY Safe act registration list, because he sought treatment for insomnia.

Mission accomplished, right safe act supporters?

[Duckhunter935]

1. but I hear there are

no confiscations happening.

That will just make more people with insomnia not seek medical treatment along with other mental issues.

[gwheezie]

2. I'm not sure what you're upset about

God help me for even responding but most states have a legal mechanism for re establishing your 2nd amendment rights if they confiscate your guns for mental health reasons.

[kelly1mm]

3. Why should one who got mental heath treatment for imsomnia have to petition to get any of their

rights back? They should never have been taken away in the first place, assuming the facts are as presented, do you agree?

I think the point of the OP and article is that there are no safeguards in place to ensure mistakes don't happen.

[Duckhunter935]

5. Thank you

could not have stated it better than that.

[Duckhunter935]

4. so you agree with this?

Montgomery, who says he has no mental health history and no pre-existing medical conditions, says he presented himself to Eastern Long Island Hospital for sleep deprivation, and was released less than 48-hours later.
Unbeknownst to Montgomery, the hospital labeled him an "involuntary admission," disqualifying him from owning or carrying a firearm under the new law.

How much is it going to cost him to redress this? Can he afford to?

[kioa]

6. If you lost a Right, would you not be upset by it?

If you heard someone-wrongly-lost the right to vote, would that not be a problem?

[sarisataka]

7. No need to fear

despite the reputation we don't bite down here, and are always willing to deal with questions for those who ask.

The problem is in everything else we have to process to protect people's rights. In this case it is simply an administrative action; there is no presumption of innocence or any protection for the accused.

Also anyone who brings up registration, confiscation or connects mental health with violence is just parroting NRA talking points. Yet here we see all three and action in a gun control law.


off topic - In other threads I noticed you were dealing with grief issues from losing your husband. 18 months ago I lost my stepfather and though he was in my life for 30 years it is only now I realize how important it was to me. I can truly sympathize with your situation.


I know you don't want to necessarily go to religious groups but you might want to call local churches anyway. Ask about how they run their groups. I have seen some that though they are through church are not really heavy on the religious side for grief therapy.

if their answer is not to your liking they may know some secular groups in the area to direct you to as well.
This thought has helped me-

[gwheezie]

9. Thanks

I wound up meeting a very nice woman at the laundromat who ran out of change so I gave her some quarters and wound up talking about that both of us lost our husbands. So she said her pastor was very helpful and I have been to talk to him twice. Since I am an atheist who works in a catholic hospital who prays with people who find it helpful I figured a pastor might be able to refrain from praying and be helpful.

[NYC_SKP]

12. I'm sorry for your loss and impressed with your work.

We need more like you in the DU religion discussion groups.

[benEzra]

15. Yes, but it could cost the victim thousands of dollars...

which many don't have just lying around. The case could also take months or years to work its way through the system, and that lost time will never be compensated even if one's civil rights are restored. There's also the risk to the victim's life, health, and property if the confiscation is carried out via a SWAT raid or something.

If someone were wrongfully imprisoned as a result of an administrative mistake by a hospital or the state, there would likely be damages paid. I think that would be apropos in this case of wrongful denial of other civil rights as well, and at the least I believe that all costs pertaining to the restoration of rights should be covered by the entity that made the mistake.

The fact that things like this happen at all---and that they are treated so casually when they do---is an extreme disincentive to seek treatment, I'd think. The person victimized in this case lost his civil rights over insomnia, for Pete's sake. If you were a gun owner concerned about loss of your civil rights, do you think you might be less likely to seek official treatment for minor depression/PTSD/OCD/ADHD? Because that is the primary outcome of cases like this, IMO.

[gwheezie]

16. I'm doubting his story

I'll be blunt. He's presenting his side. I don't know of admission criteria of insomnia. I'm not saying this could never happen but I don't know how anyone meets admission criteria with insomnia and no other symptom. You can't just sign yourself into a hospital. You have to meet admission criteria. It's like saying you sign yourself in for a headache. No hospital would do that.

[beevul]

17. Heres a link to the legal filing.

http://www.guns.com/2015/01/05/court-documents-in-montgomery-vs-new-york/

[gwheezie]

18. Thanks for the link

I still don't understand how it happened. But he was admitted with a dx of depression. That's what got him on a psych unit. So who erroneously reported him under that law? I quess the state labeled him but how did they know he was even on the hospital. If he was a voluntary admit who reported his admission to the state?

[gwheezie]

8. Thank for the replies

I actually am a psych nurse and believe my most important role is to be an advocate. I am against a database for the mentally I'll. However I have worked with clients who should not own a firearm. But it is not up to me to decide. I believe that we have already agreed certain weapons can be regulated and I also believe that every citizen should be able to have their rights defended. In my job we frequently suspend the rights of people to not be held against their will. I take that very seriously. The medical staff where I work has also testified to restore gun rights and have detention orders vacated.
I do think that when someone has been found too dangerous to own firearms by a court LE should be able to remove the fire arms. I also think that citizen has a right to restore their 2nd amenendment rights.
What I'm not getting from this story is how he wound up having his guns removed. He said it was a mistake. I don't know of any admission criteria for insomnia on its own. You can't check yourself in. You have to meet admission criteria. I'm not saying this could never happen but it would surprise me that a person could get admitted for insomnia. Also sometimes people are brought in on a temporary order and are either released by the court or volunteer in court.
Do you all concede that some people should not own guns because it seems to me that is already settled law. The question is how to determine who that is. I also have disputed that once you are diagnosed with a mental illness that you can never own a weapon. But do you have any other idea of how we restrict gun ownership for certain people?

[gwheezie]

10. Let me clarify

I am against a database of everyone who seeks treatment. I think that it is fine to have a database of people who are determined by a court to have their weapons removed. I think it should be a separate hearing. I also think that people who seek voluntary treatment can have their guns removed. If you sign yourself in the hospital after threatening to shoot your family and yourself I don't think that voluntary admission excludes you from the doctor having to report that to someone. There is a duty to warn. Some people are chronically suicidal with several prior attempts. There is a high degree of lethality if the plan is shooting yourself.

[ileus]

11. grabbers gotta grab....poor NY citi.....subjects.

[NYC_SKP]

13. "conduct warrantless searches and seizures of the homes and personal properties"? Nazi Germany?

Where is this happening?

Have we learned nothing from the failed War on Drugs, and the countless other historic movements to strip people of their basic civil rights?

[virginia mountainman]

14. But But...

Registration, never leads to confiscation.....

If it was not for their pompous lies, they would have nothing at all..