Will you vote for Hillary, gun control advocate?

[jimmy the one]

Many gun enthusiasts here on rkba have admonished politicians who support gun control, often saying or suggesting or implying that they would not vote for such a person if they were running in their own district. Or that democrat politicians and the democrat party is somewhat doomed for taking on gun control positions.
How does this rationale sit with election 2016 & Hillary Clinton? presuming Hillary is heiress presumptive to the democrat nomination, will her gun control stance affect your 2016 vote against a surely far more 'pro gun' republican nominee? (third party candidates, regrettably, deemed negligible for this poll, but use your discretion).

Some background: Hillary Clinton lashed out at opponents of gun control regulations, saying they hold a viewpoint that “terrorizes” the majority of Americans. “We cannot let a minority of people, and that’s what it is, it is a minority of people, hold a viewpoint that terrorizes the majority of people,” http://time.com/2891821/hillary-clinton-2016-gun-control/

lapierre-head: I vow on this day the NRA will stand shoulder to shoulder with you and good, honest decent Americans and we will stand and fight with everything we've got and in 2016, by God, we will elect the next great president of the United States of America and it will not be Hillary Rodham Clinton,” Mr LaPierre said.

As Hillary Clinton mulls running for president in 2016, she has been careful to shy away from broad, sweeping policy declarations. But not when she delivered harsh criticism of gun culture in America and denounced the idea that "anybody can have a gun, anywhere, at any time." Clinton didn't dispute Americans' right to own guns. But she said access to guns in the US had grown "way out of balance." "We've got to rein in what has become an almost article of faith that anybody can have a gun anywhere, anytime..".

Gun rights groups have long considered Mrs. Clinton their foe. Her 2000 Senate campaign centered on a push to keep guns off the streets, and she was a forceful advocate of creating a national gun registry.. as she faced off against Barack Obama in the Democratic primary, she positioned herself as more conservative than him on gun control. She backed off the proposal for a national registry..

As presumed Democrats here on the Democrat Underground, will you or won't you vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016? .. expound upon your reasoning if you wish.

10 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	I WILL vote for presumptive nominee Hillary no matter what
	1 (10%)
	I WILL vote for Hillary despite her gun control advocacy
	0 (0%)
	I will ABSTAIN from voting, due her gun control position
	3 (30%)
	I DON'T KNOW if I will vote for her or not, due gun control issue
	1 (10%)
	I will NOT vote for Hillary due her gun control position
	0 (0%)
	I will NOT vote for Hillary, for other reasoning
	5 (50%)
	Prefer not to answer
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[NYC_SKP]

1. Dark sided!!!

😜

[ileus]

2. I hate voting for 2A regressives but I find myself doing so often in national elections.

If only our side would come around.

[Eleanors38]

3. My only caveat to my vote in #2 is NOT if a viable, progressive 3rd party candidate

runs; in such an unlikely eventuality, the Democratic Party itself will have most certainly collapsed into 3rd party status. This country needs a progressive/liberal president. She is not, imo.

The locus of gun-control politics appears to be increasingly within elite elements of corporate centrism.

EDIT: To correct to #2 instead of #1.

[NYC_SKP]

5. Well, I decided not to vote.

Given past behaviors, I think this might be a bit of data mining with an ulterior motive.

Other members have done this, collected poll data only to save it somewhere and try to use it for bullying or other ends.

[Eleanors38]

15. "I'm a miner for a heart of gold! And I'm getting' old."

[NYC_SKP]

18. Actually, Neil Young keeps firearms at his ranch in the hills of the coastal range in Woodside, CA

And in a nearly unrelated note, there's this cool project to use cell phones to monitor illegal harvesting in rainforests:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/videos/neil-young-teams-with-new-kickstarter-campaign-to-save-the-rainforest-20140728

[Susannah Elf]

29. Yes Neil Young has firearms.

He lives on a ranch. It would be foolish of him not to have a long gun nearby. It's a far cry from having an arsenal of military-style weapons. It's also not the same as carrying a concealed handgun everywhere.
Gun control means what it says. It's not "gun elimination". It's a means of making sure that the guns out there have a legitimate purpose. It's a means of stopping people from having people killing tools at their fingertips.

[sarisataka]

4. The nomination process

Is too fluid and full of surprises to make such presumption. If Ms Clinton is the nominee, I will vote for her.

I assume whoever is the nominee will be in favor of gun control. I dare say that pro rights Democrats have less issue with and are likely to accept a pro control candidate than gun control Democrats would be likely to support a candidate who favors broader RKBA.

Prehaps you could poll GCRA: Would you vote for a Democratic presidential nominee who favored national reciprocity for CCW?

[jimmy the one]

21. probable hypothetical

sari: The nomination process ... Is too fluid and full of surprises to make such presumption. If Ms Clinton is the nominee, I will vote for her.

The republican primary process is currently quite fluid, but the democrat nomination process is quite viscous; indeed Hillary is, at this point in time, set in stone as the 'presumptive' candidate. It would take a sea change of public opinion to unseat her, & the email controversy hasn't apparently as yet caused much damage.
The poll is predicated as a 'probable hypothetical'.
Ways Hillary could NOT be the nominee would be her 1) unforeseen incapacitation somehow, or 2) the result of republican attacks prior to &/or during the primaries. Perhaps others.
I think republican attacks prior to the general election campaign will be the pitter patter of little feet compared with campaign smear campaigns launched by rightwing swift boaters, as well as the gun lobby.
Will republican strategy be to try to unseat her prior to the campaign so they can face someone else? Seems like a sound strategy at this point what with her leads, but she generally doesn't have resounding leads against the principals of bush & walker, only near or within margins of error.
They would need balance attacks on Hillary, with attacks on their political opponents in their own primaries & debates.

You actually answer the poll as either 1 or 2, thus sidestepping whether you vote for her 'despite her gun control stance'. Ok with you, OK with me.

[Susannah Elf]

32. There was something funny in the Onion

about newly declared GOP candidate Marco Rubio. In it Rubio reveals that his strategy for winning is to leverage the Latino vote, inspire a grassroots movement and "if Jeb Bush dies". I guess the same could be said for Warren and Sanders.

[NaturalHigh]

6. Yes, I'm going to vote for Hillary Clinton.

For the sake of her first mid-term elections, I hope she learned the lesson that Bill Clinton learned in 1994.

[shedevil69taz]

7. Need another option

"I MAY vote for Hilary, and her stance and intended actions concerning gun control will be a contributing factor in my choice."

[aikoaiko]

8. I'm hoping that she follows Obama's strategy of weak rhetoric followed by inaction...

...until there is a crisis. Then try hard to get laws passed, but resume weak rhetoric and inaction once that fails.

But yes I'll vote for her if she is the nominee.

[Big_Mike]

9. There is no way I can see myself ever voting for her.

The gun control is indeed an issue, but not the over-riding one. I do not believe her stance "against" the big banks and companies. I do not like the fact that her foundation, even after she announced her candidacy, still accepts foreign contributions. And, as a major part of my reasoning, I dislike her lawerly approach to the truth and how rules that supposedly guide all of us seem not to apply to her.

Ms. Warren, please, PLEASE reconsider your stance on running. My proud vote otherwise will be for Bernie Sanders.

[NYC_SKP]

10. Ditto.

gun control has nothing to do with it.

[Logical]

19. Only an idiot would not support any dem over a GOP candidate. In the primary you can do your....

best to get anyone from Hillary. But in the general the choice is easy.

I think the "gun" issue is the real problem you have with her. Just admit it.

[ileus]

11. If she wants to win the south it's time to turn away from our regressive 2A past

and embrace Americas 2A rights.

She could have a 50 state landslide by doing what's right on the 2A.


Now is the time to start laying the groundwork to gain the trust of America on this civil right. It's not too late for our party to get it right....and here is her chance to lead our party into a new less hostile future.

[Shamash]

13. Disagree

It is time for a Democrat to embrace all our rights. Surveillance, police brutality, the war on (some) drugs, etc., all of the things that have been eroding our rights are equally important to address, and like a lot of gun control, they are based on fear, stereotypes and the notion it is okay to accord other people less rights than you want for yourself because the "other" is a bad person and deserves it.

I'm not a big fan of Hilary because of her gun control stance, but I would not like her any more if she was a gun rights supporter but ignored all our other rights that are disappearing.

[ileus]

16. Now that's a real pipe dream.

[Shamash]

17. I would consider it more of an ambitious goal :)

[Eleanors38]

23. I see your point. As for guns, she could win FL by embracing 2A alone; even better...

take a strong stand on protecting the outdoors & environment. But you're right about her deficits on protecting all rights.

[Logical]

20. Oh FFS! LOL, Obama did just fine and your NRA group HATED HIM and lied about him on ever....

magazine cover.

He won.

Wow, what a silly post.

[Eleanors38]

24. "your NRA group HATED him and lied about him:" Your contrived fiction.

You take the silly reward by attacking Democrats here on DU. You can't seem to face the reality that there are millions of gun-toting liberals and Democrats. You should be less one-issue and less culture war oriented with your talking points.

[Logical]

30. Obama was hated by the gun nuts and we still won. I think we will be OK with Hillary. nt

[Shamash]

12. It might be more informative

If you had added a "will vote for her because of her gun control advocacy" and "the only reason I am only voting for her because of her gun control advocacy" lines.

Despite the overwhelming evidence from the Colorado elections, quite a few control advocates still do not think a Democrat's stance on the issue is going to affect enough Democratic votes to matter.

But if you worded the poll so that both "for" and "against" votes based solely on that issue were taken into account, it might give a better feel for how much that issue affects the totals.

Personally, I did not vote in the poll because I want to see if I have more choices than just Hiliary and where the party will stand on the issue in its platform for 2016, and how firmly or hedging the candidates are about supporting whatever the platform says.

[jimmy the one]

22. albatrosstic

shamash: It might be more informative ... If you had added a "will vote for her because of her gun control advocacy" and "the only reason I am only voting for her because of her gun control advocacy" lines.

No it wouldn't be more informative, those choices wouldn't even have gotten a 'yes' from myself.
The poll was predicated on gun enthusiasts claims that gun control was an albatross for democrat politicians, not that gun control was the raison d'etre for voting for them.

shamash: Despite the overwhelming evidence from the Colorado elections, quite a few control advocates still do not think a Democrat's stance on the issue is going to affect enough Democratic votes to matter.

Weren't those two gun control dems who lost their seats in that recall election, reelected the next term?

Personally, I did not vote in the poll because I want to see if I have more choices than just Hiliary and where the party will stand on the issue in its platform for 2016, and how firmly or hedging the candidates are about supporting whatever the platform says.

It's a probable hypothetical, that at this point in time, Hillary will be the nominee.
I take it you could abstain, or not vote democrat?

[Shamash]

31. Actually, I don't think they were re-elected

Different Democrats won those seats back as I recall (I might be wrong on that), but the Colorado Senate did switch from D-majority to R-majority in those elections and we did lose Mark Udall(D-Co) in the US Senate to a Republican, contributing to Republicans now having the majority there (Mark Udall was a prominent supporter of the recalled legislators and the magazine limits...prior to the recall. He quickly scrubbed his web page of that support afterwards).

Considering that Morse and Giron (the recalled Colorado Senate members) both came from districts that were Obama+20 in 2012, Democrats outspent Republicans and gun-interest groups by a factor of 6 to 1, and were still voted out of office because of Democrats, I believe my assertion stands (Exit polls showed turnout for the recall was 60% Democrat and 40% Republicans. The only way the recall could have succeeded is if Democrats went to the polls for the sole purpose of voting against Democrats).

Democrats are willing to not vote the party line on issues that are important to them. And not just on guns.

Just look at the DU front page and your own poll. There are people right now unhappy enough with Obama over TPP that they would vote for someone else (if he could run for office again), and plenty of people in your poll who would not vote for Hiliary for whatever reason. Guns are the issue for your poll, but they are far from the only issue for which Democrats would abstain from voting for the presumptive nominee.

And to answer your last question, depending on the choices available in 2016, I could possibly abstain. As far as not voting Democratic, Bernie Sanders is an Independent at this time...

[hack89]

14. If eight years of Obama had no impact on my gun rights

it is hard to believe eight years of Hillary will have any impact either.

[Eleanors38]

25. Yeah, looks that way to me. Trouble is, the gun control issue figures in a few thousand

state legislative races where the GOP is coring out all remnants of a progressive tradition.

[VanillaRhapsody]

26. someone just gamed this poll...

don not believe the results...

I will vote for Hillary had 14 votes just a moment ago...including mine...now that's gone...

[jimmy the one]

27. not to worry, vanilla rhapsody

vanilla rhapsody: don not believe the results...
I will vote for Hillary had 14 votes just a moment ago...including mine...now that's gone...

Not to worry vanilla, it's x-posted in general discussion, & that one has the 14 votes for HC!

[tularetom]

28. This isn't the best worded poll I've ever seen but I'll try to explain my position

I will not vote for Hillary Clinton in a primary election. I don't care about her position on gun control, I doubt that she has ever fired a gun in her life. What I do know is she is a typical political hack who will say whatever her advisors tell her to say in order to get elected and what she says has no bearing on what she will do once she is in office.

I wouldn't like to see any further restrictions placed on the ownership of firearms in the US, with the exception that I wouldn't have an objection to universal background checks for all purchases.

Obama never took one gun away from me, despite all the panicky bullshit I've heard for seven years. So I doubt that Clinton would even try. I have a ton of other reasons to oppose her.