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HAB911

(9,368 posts)
Sat Jun 10, 2017, 07:19 AM Jun 2017

Effective immediately under Florida SB 128

state attorneys will now bear the burden to prove in “Stand Your Ground” cases why a criminal defendant can’t claim immunity from prosecution.

The highly controversial legislation — two years in the making — was supported by the National Rifle Association, which argued it clarifies the intent of the “Stand Your Ground” law enacted 12 years ago.

But prosecutors and gun-rights groups vehemently fought the bill. They argued the new law will force state attorneys to essentially prosecute cases twice and will lead to a flood of self-defense claims because defendants will have virtually no risk in asserting a “Stand Your Ground” defense.


http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/scott-signs-stand-your-ground-change-religious-expression-in-school-14/2326812


007's license to kill has nothin' on Florida residents. Fair warning.

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Effective immediately under Florida SB 128 (Original Post) HAB911 Jun 2017 OP
I have not read the text of the law but sarisataka Jun 2017 #1
SB 128 HAB911 Jun 2017 #2
Which sounds like a probable cause hearing... sarisataka Jun 2017 #4
not to butt in here but... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2017 #3
The company you keep HAB911 Jun 2017 #5
Company? What company? discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2017 #8
LOL HAB911 Jun 2017 #9
"DMTNT" That phrase is older than pirates by millennia and pirates often didn't kill their prey. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2017 #10
LOL Lokilooney Jun 2017 #13
perhaps it would be useful to have a bipartisan government committee... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2017 #11
I read the change in the Bill and don't see the problem Alea Jun 2017 #6
a "criminal defendant"? What happened to innocent until proven guilty. virginia mountainman Jun 2017 #7
"Goodbye, Constitution, Bill of Rights..." yagotme Jun 2017 #12
Florida's new Stand-Your-Ground law is unconstitutional HAB911 Jul 2017 #14
I missed the point of the change gejohnston Jul 2017 #15
His little activist judge pee pee will be slapped, again, by the Florida Supreme Court. Alea Jul 2017 #16

sarisataka

(21,264 posts)
1. I have not read the text of the law but
Sat Jun 10, 2017, 09:17 AM
Jun 2017

how does this differ from a probable cause hearing?

HAB911

(9,368 posts)
2. SB 128
Sat Jun 10, 2017, 10:16 AM
Jun 2017

In a criminal prosecution, once a prima facie claim of self-defense immunity from criminal prosecution has been raised
by the defendant at a pretrial immunity hearing
, the burden of proof by clear and convincing evidence is on the party seeking to overcome the immunity from criminal prosecution provided in subsection (1).

(shifts the burden of proof in pretrial hearings to prosecutors)


https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2017/128/BillText/er/HTML

sarisataka

(21,264 posts)
4. Which sounds like a probable cause hearing...
Sat Jun 10, 2017, 10:23 AM
Jun 2017

“Probable cause hearing” may refer to a preliminary hearing that happens well after the filing of charges, at which the court hears testimony in order to determine whether it’s more likely than not that the defendant committed the alleged crimes. If the court finds “probable cause,” then the case may proceed to trial.

Aren't defendants "innocent until proven guilty"?

HAB911

(9,368 posts)
5. The company you keep
Sat Jun 10, 2017, 10:33 AM
Jun 2017

Conservative Republicans now require state attorneys to prove in a preliminary hearing proof by clear and convincing evidence why a criminal defendant should not get immunity from prosecution under Florida’s Stand Your Ground law. This law allows individuals to use deadly force in self-defense — with no obligation to retreat or flee.

This law requires each case to be tried twice

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,596 posts)
8. Company? What company?
Sat Jun 10, 2017, 05:26 PM
Jun 2017

Also, a hearing is not a trial.

FYI:
Trial- In law, a trial is a coming together of parties to a dispute, to present information (in the form of evidence) in a tribunal, a formal setting with the authority to adjudicate claims or disputes. One form of tribunal is a court. The tribunal, which may occur before a judge, jury, or other designated trier of fact, aims to achieve a resolution to their dispute.

Hearing- In law, a hearing is a proceeding before a court or other decision-making body or officer, such as a government agency or a Parliamentary committee.

A hearing is generally distinguished from a trial in that it is usually shorter and often less formal. In the course of litigation, hearings are conducted as oral arguments in support of motions, whether to resolve the case without further trial on a motion to dismiss or for summary judgment, or to decide discrete issues of law, such as the admissibility of evidence, that will determine how the trial proceeds. Limited evidence and testimony may also be presented in hearings to supplement the legal arguments.

HAB911

(9,368 posts)
9. LOL
Sun Jun 11, 2017, 07:57 AM
Jun 2017

Critics of Bradley’s bill, including the Florida Prosecuting Attorneys Association and the Florida Coalition Against Domestic Violence, have argued it would put an end to cases before all the facts are revealed. They also contend the “stand your ground” law has disproportionate effects on minorities, as it is used more successfully as a defense when white shooters kill African-Americans.

Sen. Gary Farmer, D-Fort Lauderdale, said shifting the burden of proof in “stand your ground” cases would incentivize people involved in shooting incidents to leave no witnesses.

“Dead men tell no tales,” Farmer said. “That’s a phrase that goes back to pirate days, and that’s why pirates were so ruthless, and that’s why pirates made sure that everyone died, so they could tell no tales.”



http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21713892-florida-saw-sudden-and-sustained-rise-homicide-rate-24-after-introducing-one

http://time.com/4569145/florida-stand-your-ground-law-homicide-increase-study/


Only time will tell. - HAB911

 

Decoy of Fenris

(1,954 posts)
10. "DMTNT" That phrase is older than pirates by millennia and pirates often didn't kill their prey.
Sun Jun 11, 2017, 09:54 AM
Jun 2017

Minor historic quibbling, I know, but I'm disinclined to believe someone who speaks so freely (and ignorantly) from his rectal cavity. Reminds me too much of Trump.

Lokilooney

(322 posts)
13. LOL
Wed Jun 14, 2017, 07:40 PM
Jun 2017

How much you want to bet he got all of that from 'Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead mean tell no tales'

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,596 posts)
11. perhaps it would be useful to have a bipartisan government committee...
Sun Jun 11, 2017, 05:31 PM
Jun 2017

...assess the implementation and exercise of the provisions of the existing laws.

Alea

(706 posts)
6. I read the change in the Bill and don't see the problem
Sat Jun 10, 2017, 12:44 PM
Jun 2017

It seems like it adds an extra measure of scrutiny to determine whether the stand your ground defense can be used. I'm all for stand your ground, but I'm against using it as a defense for killing when the situation does not warrant use of deadly force. Doesn't this change make it easier to expose someone using SYG when it's not a valid defense? Seems it would help prosecute cases where SYG was used but not warranted, or help exonerate someone using SYG when it is warranted.

Sorry but I'm just not seeing a negative side to this change. Some people don't like SYG period. Some people think when a persons death by criminal lottery number comes up you should lay down and take it like a sheep. Everyone deserves the right to self defense. No criminal deserves the right to kill or attempt to kill without the intended victim having the right to defend them self with deadly force. That said, this change to the Bill should actually make it harder to abuse the SYG defense, not make it easier to use. Isn't that better for both sides?

virginia mountainman

(5,046 posts)
7. a "criminal defendant"? What happened to innocent until proven guilty.
Sat Jun 10, 2017, 01:31 PM
Jun 2017

That statement alone shows the writer already has come to a conclusion before the court proceedings have ended,

And fully exposes his bias.

HAB911

(9,368 posts)
14. Florida's new Stand-Your-Ground law is unconstitutional
Mon Jul 3, 2017, 12:09 PM
Jul 2017

Florida's updated "Stand Your Ground" self-defense law is unconstitutional, a Miami judge ruled on Monday.

Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Milton Hirsch ruled that lawmakers overstepped their authority in creating the law this year that forces prosecutors to disprove a defendant's self-defense claim at a pre-trial hearing.

The judge ruled that under Florida's constitution, that change should have been crafted by the Florida Supreme Court, not the Legislature.

"As a matter of constitutional separation of powers, that procedure cannot be legislatively modified," Hirsch wrote in a 14-page order.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/judge-rules-floridas-new-stand-your-ground-law-is-unconstitutional/2329210

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
15. I missed the point of the change
Mon Jul 3, 2017, 03:42 PM
Jul 2017

in the immunity hearing, which is optional, one only has to prove self-defense by the preponderance of the evidence. The theory being, if you can do that, the prosecution can't disprove it BARD at trial.
Of course, the defendant can choose to blow off immunity hearing and go straight to trail.

Alea

(706 posts)
16. His little activist judge pee pee will be slapped, again, by the Florida Supreme Court.
Tue Jul 4, 2017, 01:37 PM
Jul 2017

SYG is alive and well in Florida and I believe this ruling only applies to his district. Looking at some of his reversals by the Fl Supreme Court, he's had his pee pee slapped so many times I'm surprise he was ever able to reproduce. Maybe he's padding his resume for a job with the 9th circuit.

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