Reuters: U.S. judge rejects Texas professors' bid to halt student gun carry

[friendly_iconoclast]

By Jon Herskovitz | AUSTIN, Texas

A U.S. judge rejected efforts by three University of Texas professors to ban students from bringing guns to their classrooms after the state granted them that right last year, court documents showed on Friday.

Professors Jennifer Glass, Lisa Moore and Mia Carter had argued in a federal district court in Austin that academic freedom and classroom debate could be chilled under the so-called "campus carry" law backed by the state's Republican political leaders.

The law allows concealed handgun license holders aged 21 and older to bring handguns into classrooms and other university facilities, including the University of Texas system, one of the nation's largest with more than 221,000 students.

"Plaintiffs present no concrete evidence to substantiate their fear," U.S. District Judge Lee Yeakel wrote in his decision dismissing the professors' complaint. Defendants included Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, University President Gregory Fenves and the university's Board of Regents.

[friendly_iconoclast]

1. While it's good to see *any* moral panic getting stymied, I'm still saddened by the fact...

..that this particular one is being promulgated by otherwise progressive people.

Leave that shit to the wingers and their paranoia about brown people, LGBTQ people, and
non Judeo-Christians!

[Fozzledick]

2. Does he allow concealed handguns in his courtroom?

If not, what's he afraid of?

[Straw Man]

3. Concealed carry in courtrooms? I doubt it.

"If not, what's he afraid of?"

Disgruntled friends and family of defendants and victims, most likely. Not analogous to a classroom situation at all.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

4. Should he be allowed to allow guns in his courtroom?

What's your take on that?

[Fozzledick]

6. If he won't allow threatened teachers to keep guns out of their classrooms, why should he be allowed

to keep them out of his courtroom?

Sauce for the gander, no escape from karma, equal justice for all.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

8. re: "...why should he be allowed to keep them out of his courtroom?"

That wasn't the question.

>> Should he be allowed to allow guns IN his courtroom? What's your take on that?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

10. The Latin term "aequus" comes to mind...

...meaning fair and equal. In a courtroom a jury renders a verdict. That word "verdict" comes from the Latin "veritas" meaning truth. Truth and justice are the foundations of court proceedings whether civil or criminal.

Perhaps my earlier question/reply wasn't concise. District Judge Lee Yeakel dismissed the complaint by the UT professors saying basically that they failed to bring sufficient (let's say prima facie) evidence to support their assertions about the danger of firearms in their classrooms.

I'm not necessarily against keeping firearms out of classrooms but the way you phrased your objection implied that Judge Yeakel also has some part in the decision to keep firearms out the court house.

1. I don't know that he had any part in that decision.
2. More important, and as I asked, should that decision be his?

In the interest of being 'fair', please share your thoughts.

[Straw Man]

16. I answered that.

Right here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1172204072#post3

Care to respond?

[Throck]

5. As I understand the article.

Only Texas residents with a CCW permit are permitted to carry on campus? Age 21?

What are the comprehensive Texas permit requirements?

Maybe professors objecting to this law as a compromise could be assigned to teach freshmen and those under 21 who do not have permits. In theory they would have gun free classrooms. At least no legal guns would be present.

[Fozzledick]

7. Texas permit requirements? I'm guessing free, white and 18.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

9. Texas LTC:

Texas Government Code Chapter 411, Subchapter H sets out the eligibility criteria that must be met. Applicants must be at least 21 years of age (unless active duty military) and must meet Federal qualifications to purchase a handgun. A number of factors may make individuals ineligible to obtain a license, such as: felony convictions, some misdemeanor convictions, including charges that resulted in probation or deferred adjudication; certain pending criminal charges; chemical or alcohol dependency; certain types of psychological diagnoses, and protective or restraining orders. The state eligibility requirements can be found in GC §411.172. The federal firearms disqualifiers can be found in 18 USC 44 §922.

You must also submit a completed application, pay the required fees, complete all required training and submit required supplemental forms and materials.

[Throck]

11. Seems elaborate and strict.

Can't understand the hype and opposition.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

12. In other words not just 18 and white? n/t

[Throck]

13. I don't understand the disinformation campaign.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

14. you aren't supposed to understand...

...only "believe".

[friendly_iconoclast]

15. Moral panics thrive on unreasoning fear and healthy doses of pious fraud:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1172198754

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/university-of-texas-campus-concealed-guns.html?_r=0

College officials in other states with campus carry, like Colorado and Idaho, say there has been little noticeable impact. In Texas, only people older than 21 can carry concealed handguns, and university leaders estimate only a few hundred will do so in Austin. Mr. Marsh said most people would never even notice, which, he added, is “the whole point of concealed carry.”...

...Already, she said, the law has interfered with teaching. During her first class after the law took effect, she said, her English literature students discussed the rules and she explained how she could not legally prohibit guns in class, or even ask who had them.

“Three of them started crying,” she said. “We did not talk about Jane Austen that day.”...

"But f_i," you may very well say, "don't you realize just how dangerous this will be?"

Yes. Yes, I do:

http://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/chl/reports/convrates.htm

(tl,dr version- 108 Texas CCW license holder were convicted of felonies in 2015)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=198548

Out of a population of 940,877-that's *1* conviction for every 8711 permitees

http://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/chl/reports/ActLicAndInstr/ActiveLicandInstr2015.pdf

Active License/Certified Instructor Counts
As of December 31, 2015


Active License Holders:
937,419
Certified Instructors:
3,458

These numbers reflect the number of licensed individuals and certified instructors

Given the stated estimates by university leaders -and known conviction rates-
it would seem that UT will most likely go about 16 years before the first CC licensee
enrolled there commits any felony, much less one involving illegal use of
a firearm...