Washington Will Be the First State to Alert Victims When a Domestic Abuser Tries to Buy a Gun

[SecularMotion]

Thousands of times each year in the United States, someone convicted of domestic abuse or subject to an active restraining order seeks to illegally purchase a gun from a licensed dealer — usually, without any consequences. On July 23, Washington will become the first state to require authorities to notify victims when such an attempted sale takes place. The measure is part of a sweeping new law that seeks to crack down on all prohibited purchasers who attempt to buy firearms in the state, a practice known as “lie and try.”

“Giving survivors of domestic violence the option to be notified if an abuser attempts to illegally purchase a gun allows them to more accurately plan for their own safety and the safety of those closest to them,” said Tamaso Johnson, the public policy director for the Washington State Coalition Against Domestic Violence

The legislation, which establishes a grant program to aid authorities in conducting investigations into failed attempts to purchase firearms, comes amid heightened attention to the danger posed by abusers armed with guns.

According to the Center for American Progress, a left-leaning advocacy group, more than half of women killed as a result of domestic violence between 2001 and 2012 nationwide were killed with a gun. Other research has found that if a domestic-violence abuser has access to a gun, a victim is five times more likely to be killed.

https://www.thetrace.org/2017/07/washington-domestic-violence-laws-alert-abusers-guns/

[jmg257]

1. Sounds good. Illegal for them to purchase?...steps should be taken when they try.

[Throck]

2. Illegal to purchase?

How come they're not prosecuted?

Domestic abusers are scum low life's, the criminal justice system is a failure.

[sarisataka]

3. The police should also be notified

About the attempted illegal purchase so that person can be arrested

[DaleFromWPB]

4. Why?

Thousands of times each year in the United States, someone convicted of domestic abuse or subject to an active restraining order seeks to illegally purchase a gun from a licensed dealer — usually, without any consequences. --- WHY?, Why aren't they being arrested and prosecuted?

[SecularMotion]

7. Banned From Owning Guns, Many Lie and Try to Buy Them Anyway. Few Are Punished for the Crime.

Earlier this year, a man with an outstanding criminal warrant lied on a background check form in an attempt to buy a firearm at a gun shop in the small town of Pittston, Pennsylvania. What happened next is very rare in the U.S.: The man was arrested before he left the store.

Submitting false information on a background check is a felony under federal law, punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000. But as many as 160,000 people are denied a gun purchase each year because they failed a check. Few are ever apprehended, much less prosecuted. Available federal and state data suggest that the percentage of arrests as a proportion of denied sales is extremely low — likely in the single digits.

Pennsylvania is one of eight states where lawmakers and police have sought to boost arrests and prosecutions by passing laws and implementing so-called “lie and try” policies requiring local law enforcement agencies to be notified whenever someone fails a background check. The goal is to give police a tool they can use to arrest dangerous individuals before they can secure a gun and possibly harm someone. In 32 states, a person who is blocked from buying a firearm at a licensed dealer can turn to a private seller who is not required to run a background check. One 2009 study found a strong proclivity towards further illegal behavior by denied gun purchasers, determining that a third of convicted criminals rejected when attempting to buy a gun are caught breaking another law during the next five years.

In early April, Tennessee became the latest state to enact a “lie and try” law or policy, joining Pennsylvania, California, Colorado, Illinois, Utah, Oregon, and Virginia in doing so. The states currently considering similar measures include Maryland, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Michigan, and New Hampshire.

https://www.thetrace.org/2016/05/lie-and-try-policy-failed-gun-background-checks/

[SQUEE]

6. How about a little ringa-a ding ding to the local Sheriff as well?

We need to start actually enforcing the laws on the books before adding more to not enforce.

[Straw Man]

8. Notify the victim but not notify law enforcement?

Why is that? Why not notify both?

Lying on the 4473 is a federal offense, yet it never seems to get prosecuted. How do you feel about that?

[SecularMotion]

9. How it works

When the new law takes effect, sellers must report failed background checks to the Washington Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs, which currently administers the state’s existing notification system. That system is already used to alert victims if a protection order is served or will soon expire. WASPC will then input the information in the notification system, triggering an alert to the victim. The agency will also reach out to the Washington State Patrol, to alert the police agency of the attempted purchase.

Post #7 is about "lie and try"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=204289

[Straw Man]

10. How it should work.

I know what "lie and try" is. What's missing from the explanation is what steps, if any, the Washington State agencies take after notification of the attempted purchase. They aren't the appropriate agencies to prosecute a federal offense, which is what "lie and try" is.

[SecularMotion]

11. Yes, more states need to pass "lie and try" laws

so violations can be enforced and prosecuted by local officials.

[gejohnston]

12. are you sure you want that?

because the number of false positives, about half of the ones investigated by the ATF, will become public knowledge. So will absurdities like some guy being denied because of a 35-year-old pot possession conviction that he or she didn't know was a felony.

[SecularMotion]

13. If the penalties for lying or misrepresentation were higher

I would think applicants would verify their personal information before filling out forms.

The end result should be less false positives.

[gejohnston]

14. that isn't the problem

and any violation of the Gun Control Act is up to ten years. The problem isn't verifying their information. The problem ranges from identity theft victims being listed as a felon to simple errors by the FBI. For example, I know a guy that has purchased guns since he got out of the military. One day, he is denied because the system said he had a dishonorable discharge. His DD-214 says otherwise.

[SecularMotion]

15. You're blowing simple clerical errors out of proportion

No system is infallible.

No one is going to prison for 10 years over a clerical error.

[gejohnston]

16. no, but the penalty exists

and can legally be imposed. Felons in possession typically get five years. Straw purchasers usually range from probation to five years. IIRC, the only person I know of that got the full ten was the Texan that sold the Charter Arms revolver to David Berkowitz. From what I read, Berkowitz, a resident of New York, bought the .44 from a guy advertising it in a newspaper. He was convicted of interstate sale without an FFL.

Never say never. Who would have thought the same DA that let Ray Rice slide on beating the shit out of his girlfriend on camera, would turn around and try to throw the book at an honest citizen who made the honest mistake of missing her turn and landing up on the New Jersey side of the bridge while possessing a firearm, which was completely legal on her side of the river.

[Straw Man]

18. Penalties.

Straw purchasers usually range from probation to five years. IIRC, the only person I know of that got the full ten was the Texan that sold the Charter Arms revolver to David Berkowitz.

Dawn Nguyen got eight years for straw purchase of the rifle and shotgun William Spengler used to kill his sister and ambush firefighters in Webster, NY in 2012. She was paroled after two years. Higher-profile cases usually draw longer sentences. It's law-enforcement theater at its finest.

[Straw Man]

17. "Lie and try" violates a FEDERAL law.

Yes, more states need to pass "lie and try" laws

so violations can be enforced and prosecuted by local officials.

So you're calling for a redundant local law to cover for the federal government's failure to enforce theirs? Your answer to the failure to enforce a law is to pass another law. Pardon me for doubting the efficacy of that strategy.