For gun violence reduction gun owners are irrelevant.

[AndyS]

The reason gun control doesn't pass has nothing to do with gun owners. Sorry to deflate your overblown ego and sense of self importance but you are simply irrelevant.

Only 9% of voters, I assume gun owners, favor lessening gun restrictions.

Gun owners are not even a consideration, they are a minuscule minor irritation.

Sensible gun laws and the reduction of gun deaths, injuries and $280,000,000 a year cost are held hostage by the gun lobby.

Over the careers of current Senators the NRA has contributed $71,405,873 in campaign funds. For instance Mitch McConnell got $1.3m which works out to $1,863 per dead constituent. Mitt Romney got the most at $13,647,676 or $9,993 per dead constituent. Chuck Grassley single handedly blocked the last attempt at universal background checks and he's a piker at only $226,007 or $856 per dead constituent.

In 2020 alone the NRA spent $787,652 in direct contributions and another $29,355,400 in 'indirect' spending through PACs which filters into political contributions. I can't calculate that over the careers of our current Senators but it's kinda big, doncha' think? And that's just the NRA, not the entirety of gundom which includes the gun makers and other gun groups.

So it's not the poor besotted gun owners who are a problem. It's the ones who make $$ off death and misery.

https://elections.bradyunited.org/take-action/nra-donations-116th-congress-senators
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/national-rifle-assn/summary?id=d000000082

[AndyS]

1. crickets

[LiberatedUSA]

2. If voting rights can't get passed...

…I’ve got some bad news for you about gun control and its future chances in 2022 and 2024.

[AndyS]

3. Yeah so lets just ignore the 40,000 or so people guns take from us

every year. And the 120,000 wounded. While we're ignoring them lets just let the Turmpanzees have our country as well.

Give up on climate change.

Give up on vaccines and masks.

Give up on voting rights.

[LiberatedUSA]

4. Oh Andy, I just gave ya a statement of fact.

I didn’t say anything about giving up. You did. If my little statement bugged ya, there are two Democratic senators you should be upset with more than me. Cause I don’t have the power to block dreams, but they do.

[AndyS]

5. If that's the way you interpreted my response to your

'can't do anything about it' post you are sorely challenged in the irony department.

Don't go away mad, just go away.

[hack89]

6. Gun control supporters are pretty irrelevant as well

Given their results over the past several decades.

As long as Wyoming and Montana have the same number of Senators as NY and California, popularity polls like this are meaningless.

[AndyS]

7. 7 out of 8 ain't bad . . .

?mw=2580&hash=D069D2F9E92EAF6E491C11D2DED550DF

[hack89]

8. But don't you need national legislation to solve gun violence?

or are you saying a handful of states with AWBs and UBCs is enough? Because its been that way for a couple of decades now.

Your goal is to bring back a federal AWB yet you can't pass one at a state level. Do you see that as a good sign.

[AndyS]

9. One step at a time. We are following the Gunner model

Start slow and pick away at state and local levels. I'm not coming for your guns . . . yet.

Moms Demand Action: Our Victories
Since our founding in 2012, Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America has pushed back against the gun lobby and fought for common-sense laws and policies to make our country safer. Thanks to the hard work of our volunteers across the country, we have been able to achieve unprecedented victories against the gun lobby–at the ballot box, in state legislatures, and in corporate America.

2021
A woman holds a Background Checks Now sign at the Capitol
Aug
02
llinois Governor J.B. Pritzker signs H.B. 562, a law to close gaps in Illinois’ Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) Card system and strengthen the rules for background checks on unlicensed gun sales
Jul
22
President Joe Biden signed the VOCA Fix to Sustain the Crime Victims Fund Act of 2021 into law
Jul
20
Louisiana Senate voted to sustain Governor Edwards’ veto of SB 118, a dangerous permitless carry bill that would have allowed people to carry concealed, loaded handguns in public without a background check or any safety training, dismantling Louisiana’s culture of responsible gun ownership
Jul
15
U.S. House Committee passes appropriations legislation with crucial investments to help reduce gun violence
Jul
12
Rhode Island Governor Daniel J. McKee signs two important gun safety bills that were passed by the Rhode Island General Assembly earlier this month
Jul
06
Governor Andrew Cuomo signs a first of its kind bill aimed at holding bad actors in the gun industry accountable
Jun
30
California’s Assembly Public Safety Committee passes SB 299, legislation to ensure that victims of excessive use of force by law enforcement are able to utilize victim compensation
Jun
29
More than 1.5 million students across the country now live in a school district that requires schools to educate parents about the critical importance of secure firearm storage in keeping schools and students safe
Jun
29
New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy signs a state budget passed by the New Jersey Legislature, which includes $10 million to fund community violence intervention programs and grants for communities and individuals who are particularly impacted by the high rate of violence that is devastating the state
Jun
29
Minnesota Governor Tim Walz announced an executive action to provide additional funding for community violence prevention and improve police transparency and accountability
Jun
26
Pennsylvania General Assembly passes a state budget that includes $30 million in violence prevention funding
Jun
25
Nevada’s Clark County School Board voted to approve a resolution to ensure parents are receiving information about the importance of responsibly storing firearms to protect minors from accessing guns at home
Jun
25
Connecticut Governor Ned Lamont for signs HB 6355, a bill to strengthen Connecticut’s existing extreme risk law to allow family members to directly ask the court to issue an Extreme Risk Protection Order when a loved one exhibits signs of posing a risk to themself or others
Jun
25
President Joe Biden signs legislation to establish the National Pulse Memorial
Jun
23
Governor Jared Polis signs HB21-1255 into law — the final bill in a suite of gun safety legislation. HB21-1255 will help keep guns out of the hands of domestic abusers by strengthening the rules for firearm relinquishment
Jun
19
Colorado Governor Jared Polis signs three new pieces of gun violence prevention legislation into law
Jun
15
Connecticut Governor Ned Lamont signs HB 5677, a bill to direct the Connecticut’s Medicaid program to fund hospital-based violence intervention programs and other community violence intervention services for victims of violence who are at high risk for violent reinjury or retaliation
Jun
07
Department of Justice releases model of extreme risk legislation for states to enact, as well as a proposed rule to ensure firearms equipped with stabilizing arm braces that currently circumvent the law on dangerous short-barrel rifles are subject to the National Firearms Act
Jun
07
Nevada Governor Steve Sisolak signs AB 286, a bill to regulate ghost guns, untraceable, do-it-yourself firearms available without a background check
Jun
01
Oregon Governor Brown signs SB 554, allowing the state capitol, airports, schools and universities to prohibit firearms in their buildings and require firearms to be securely stored when not in use
May
28
President Joe Biden released his Fiscal Year 2022 budget proposal, which includes hundreds of millions of dollars designed to address gun violence and save lives
May
27
Washington D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser includes $59.3 million for violence intervention program funding in the 2021-22 budget proposal
May
20
Everytown celebrates continued partnership with National Parent Teacher Association on ‘Be SMART’ secure gun storage program
May
19
Washington Governor Inslee signs gun violence prevention legislation, including bills to increase police accountability
May
19
Alabama legislature adjourned without passing either HB 405 or SB 358. HB 405 was a bill which sought to eliminate criminal responsibility for carrying a loaded gun in public without a permit
May
19
Vermont’s Champlain Valley School District voted to send a letter to parents about the importance of securely storing firearms to protect children and teens from accessing guns at home
May
14
Governor Newsom includes over $200 million for California Violence Intervention and Prevention Grant Program funding in the 2021-22 May Revise Budget Proposal
Apr
29
Grand Rapids City Commission voted in favor of bringing Cure Violence, a program that uses trained workers, both outreach staff and violence interrupters, to Grand Rapids
Apr
28
Indiana lawmakers defeat dangerous gun bills at the end of the legislative session
Apr
27
Connecticut Governor Lamont announced his plan to allocate $3 million of the state’s American Rescue Plan funding to support gun violence prevention programs
Apr
26
Washington legislature includes violence intervention and prevention funding in the 2021-2023 budget
Apr
21
Connecticut lawmakers substantially increased funding for community-based violence intervention programs in the proposed budget for the coming year
Apr
19
Colorado Governor Jared Polis signed two life-saving gun violence prevention proposals into law
Apr
12
Lawmakers in the House of Delegates override Governor Larry Hogan’s veto of SB 71, SB 178, and HB 670, police reform bills which are a crucial part of a comprehensive package, known collectively as the Maryland Police Accountability Act of 2021
Apr
09
Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear signs SB 4, a bill to significantly limit the use of no-knock warrants and require safeguards to prevent their misuse
Apr
08
Wyoming legislative session ended without movement on three dangerous gun bills
Apr
08
President Joe Biden announced that he will take action to address the nation’s gun violence crisis
Apr
07
New York lawmakers finalized this year’s budget and included a grant program to better utilize the Victim of Crime Act funding to support violence intervention programs in the state’s 2021 budget plan
Apr
07
New Mexico Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham signed legislation to eliminate qualified immunity and create accountability for police misconduct
Apr
01
Virginia has its second consecutive year of new gun safety laws
Mar
31
As police violence continues throughout the state, the Missouri Senate passed SB 53 to prevent police misconduct and violence by requiring transparency surrounding officer-involved deaths.
Mar
18
New Jersey Attorney General Gurbir S. Grewal announced a settlement with a California-based ghost gun distributor that will bar the company from advertising or selling untraceable ghost guns in New Jersey
Mar
17
Colorado House State, Civic, Military & Veterans Affairs Committee voted to reject HB 1038, which would allow people with concealed carry permits to carry guns on public K-12 school premises, and HB 1070, which would repeal the Colorado law prohibiting the possession, sale, or transfer of large-capacity ammunition magazines of over 15 rounds
Mar
15
Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro announced a new agreement to stop the sale of ghost guns at gun shows
Mar
02
Los Angeles City Council allocated $2,150,000 to hire and train additional violence intervention workers in Los Angeles
Feb
26
Virginia lawmakers pass HB 2128, legislation to address the Charleston loophole, which allows gun sales to move forward by default after three business days—even if a background check has not been completed
Feb
23
Illinois Governor JB Pritzker signs HB 3653, legislation to increase police accountability and transparency, into law
Feb
19
Vermont Supreme Court upheld the state’s 2018 law prohibiting the possession, purchase, sale, or manufacture of high-capacity magazines
Feb
12
The Montana House Judiciary Committee voted to table HB 258, which would prohibit state and local law enforcement from assisting in the enforcement of federal public safety laws
Feb
11
California’s Goleta Unified School District voted to pass a Secure Storage Firearm Resolution
Feb
11
Maryland lawmakers voted to override Governor Hogan’s veto on legislation that requires background checks on all rifle and shotgun sales
Jan
06
Jon Ossoff and Rev. Raphael Warnock, Everytown-Endorsed Gun Sense Candidates, Win in

[hack89]

10. So you are thinking very long term?

Several decades to get a majority of states to pass an AWB? Which red states do you see flipping?

[AndyS]

11. All of them . . .

[hack89]

12. Happy to see you are retaining your sense of humor

You will be needing it.

[AndyS]

13. Back atcha'.

[hack89]

14. Not in my lifetime fortunately

But then I am in my 60s. If you are a young guy maybe one day your dream will come true.

[AndyS]

15. I don't know which is more sad,

that you cannot see that a tipping point is approaching as can be seen by the huge increase in anti violence organizations, the progress they are making and the increased media coverage of gun carnage or the fact the the gun industry has so badly used and brainwashed you into thinking that gunz are the answer to everything, make you safer and things will never change because gunz are invincible.

Not in your lifetime? That's what I told my friend Kevin about gay marriage in the '80s. Boy, was I wrong . . .

[hack89]

16. Except there have been "tipping points" every year

For the 16 years I have been on DU. Go look through the archives - there is nothing unique about your shtick. There have been many that were much better at it then you are. And they were still wrong every time. That is why I feel confident that you are also wrong - there is nothing new about your logic or facts. It is just another DU gun control rinse, lather and repeat.

And you miss a fundamental thing about gay marriage. It came about due to a block buster Supreme Court ruling, not legislation. Gun rights have already had their block buster SC ruling - it's called Heller. Gun control has already lost the legal battle for several decades.

[AndyS]

18. If your best friend is a Republican supreme court and a money grubbing

industry perhaps you should re-evaluate your culture and values.

Yes there have been 'tipping points' before. Each one gets a bit stronger. It took 20 years for the NRA and Gun industry to raise the death rate to world wide historical levels. It fell to just over 4/100,000 after the first control movement (the AWB and the Brady campaign) but since 2014 it's been climbing again. It's at 8/100,000 this year and in another two will be past the high point of 10/100,000 unless we make progress on curbing gun access.

As far as the court goes, in the last year the number of Biden appointees has stacked the lower court in a liberal direction. Even without court reform it won't be long before it filters up and Gunners will lose their support base of right wing justices.

In any case it will be a long haul unless the gunners have their wet dream come true and they take up arms in a second civil war in which case you can kiss the 2nd ga'bye and we will come for the guns. I don't want that, it would mean the death of few hundred thousand people but it would end the insanity of gundom once and for all.

Pull your head out and look around. The times they are a changin'.

[hack89]

19. Ok. Nt

[krispos42]

22. Well, Democrats have abdicated protecting my civil right to bear arms

I don't want a Republican/originalist SCOTUS, but that's what your side gave us so I'll take what I can get. I mean, you flat-out state in this thread that your ultimate goal is to make private gun ownership a tightly-controlled privilege extended by the states.

And the firearms industry is a for-profit manufacturing sector just like any other. And if they're so rich, why is Remington in bankruptcy protection?

It took 20 years for the NRA and Gun industry to raise the death rate to world wide historical levels. It fell to just over 4/100,000 after the first control movement (the AWB and the Brady campaign) but since 2014 it's been climbing again. It's at 8/100,000 this year and in another two will be past the high point of 10/100,000 unless we make progress on curbing gun access.

Wow, there is so much wrong with this statement.

1. Rifles (of all types) account for about 5% of gun-related homicides annually and 2.5% of homicides overall, a proportion that has been consistent for decades.
   
   
2. Banning new sales of a subset of rifles can't lower the homicide rate by 50%, when rifles only account for 2.5% of all murders.
   
   
3. Banning "assault weapons" in 1994 only banned future sales of "assault weapons". "Assault weapons" already owned by Sept. 14th, 1994 were legal and in circulation already.
   
   
4. The number of "assault weapons" in circulation remained largely fixed during the 10-year period of the Federal AWB yet the homicide rate dropped in half.
   
   
5. Since "assault weapons" were replaced with "almost but not quite assault weapons" in sales after Sept. 14th, 1994, the homicide rate should have stayed steady.
   
   
6. The homicide rate been climbing the past decade or so despite some of the biggest states enacting more gun-controls laws after the Sandy Hook massacre.
   
   
7. The major reason the murder rate took a dive in 1990 (4 years before the Federal AWB) was because a generation earlier women gained control over their reproductive organs via widespread availability and use of birth control: the Pill, the IUD, condoms, and abortion. Fewer children were born into social situations where a life of crime and poverty was likely. In the 1990's, as young violent criminals were killed, went legit, went to prison, or went on to non-violent crimes, they were not equally replaced by fresh, new up-and-coming violent teenagers.
   
   
8. The minor reason was that at the same time women were controlling when, where, and how many kids to have, we also took lead products out of gasoline and paint. The levels of airborne lead plummeted and kid's toys and furnishings no longer had lead paint on them. The generation born after about 1974 wasn't poisoned with lead. Since lead poisoning makes kids dumb, short-sighted, and violent, there were fewer kids that saw street violence as a career and took another, more legit, direction.
   
   
   Your attempts to stop violence via the hardware method are not only ineffective, they are anti-effective because they prevent social progress.
   
   They prevent social progress because they put Republicans in charge, and Republicans are evil. They are kleptocratic theocrats whose social policies guarantee high crime rates.
   
   In fact, I'll be that the reason the crime rate is jumping up is that it's being driven by red states that, 15-20 years ago started to severely curtail birth control methods, abortion services, and comprehensive sex education. Now those unwanted kids being born into bad situations are becoming young adults, and young adults are the most likely to commit violent crimes.
   
   Why are those states red? The answer lies in your mirror.
   

[Surf Fishing Guru]

17. You are either completely misreading the indicators . . .

You are either completely misreading the indicators or not reading the ones that actually count.

There certainly will be no new sweeping measures and especially no new AW / LCM bans enacted until the Supreme Court delivers its decision in NYSRPA v Bruen (expected in June, 2022).

The political capital will not be expended before that on any new laws that will rely on the lower federal court's two-step interest balancing inquiry, for survival / legitimacy. All AW and LCM bans currently in force that have been sustained using the two-step process are infirm and will be challenged and invalidated after NYSRPA v Bruen is handed down.

.

[krispos42]

21. Looks like you did a bad copy-paste of photo captions

But don't worry, I'm sure that there will be a mass shooting in 2022 and Biden and congressional Democrats will propose another useless gun-control bill that goes nowhere.

Then we'll lose the House and Senate in 2022 to a bunch of idiots that are highly motivated by believing that the presidency was stolen from Dolt45 in 2020 and that Democrats are coming for their "gunz".

But, hey, gun control is a winner and will turn the red states blue!

[krispos42]

20. Except now the Republicans control the governor's seat and the House of Delegates

Last edited Fri Dec 31, 2021, 05:02 PM - Edit history (1)

The pro-gun people were engaging in mass protests weeks after the state swore in a Democratic governor and a Democratic General Assembly and those Democrats began pushing all those bills.

And now, again, we're out of power. The House of Delegates is a week away from being 52 Republicans to 48 Democrats, and the governor will be Trump-humping, Big-Lie endorsing, former CEO of the goddamn Carlyle Group, and anti-abortion proponent Glenn Fucking Youngkin

And in a time when state Republicans across the nation are pushing voter-suppression bills, now they can add Virginia to the list of states they can cement.

No same-day registration. No mail-in ballots. No early voting. Fewer polling places. Tighter identification requirements. Partisan challenges to voters at the polls. Provisions for the assembly to override the secretary of state on slates of electors.

And that means that, soon, they'll repeal all those laws your bragging about because they'll have locked in their minority rule, and lock in the state's 13 electoral votes for a goddamn Republican.

And after SCOTUS guts abortion rights in the spring, you can be sure that Virginia will be an anti-woman state within a couple of years. The entire Virginia Senate is up for election in 2023 and one seat changing hands means a tie, with the Republican lieutenant governor breaking ties.

Fun fact: the Medicare expanding in Virginia was done by the lieutenant governor casting a tie-breaking vote. Well, that's dead and buried now, isn't it?

So, congrats. We managed to defy the odds and kept New Jersey blue, but thanks to your side, we lost Virginia when we didn't need to.

[melm00se]

23. Point of fact

As long as Wyoming and Montana have the same number of Senators as NY and California...

This will not change.

Why?

Article I, section 3:

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state...

Article V:

...no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

So to change this

1. there would have to be a change in Article I, section 3.
2. there would have to be a change to Article V.

This would require at least 1, if not 2, constitutional amendments. Do you really think that Montana (66%), Idaho (60%), Wyoming (66%), New Mexico (46%), North Dakota (55%), South Dakota (55%), Nebraska (45%), Maine (47%), New Hampshire (41%), Vermont (51%), Rhode Island (15%), Arkansas (57%), Alaska (65%) and Iowa (44%) would willing line up to give away their influence at the federal level? I cannot think of any possible compromise or promise made to get these states to vote for changing this bedrock principle.

(Remember: many of the smaller states are pejoratively referred to as "flyover" states and don't think for a second that they don't know that and won't forget that).

(Finally, give some thought as to why I added the percentages listed after each of these states and what they indicate..I am sure you will figure it out).