In my opinion, it's time for every liberal to purchase a semi-automatic rifle

[LongtimeAZDem]

Learn to use it.

Store it safely.

[PTWB]

1. I said essentially the same thing after January 6th

It is irresponsible to cede the ownership of firearms to political enemies who would do us harm. Every left leaning independent and Democrat who can legally own a firearm, should own one, and should train with it to the point of being proficient and safe.

Our side will not fire the first shots if things deteriorate to that level, but if right wing extremists cause a societal collapse and a civil war, we should not be unarmed and defenseless.

[LongtimeAZDem]

2. +1

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

3. Just because having a gun in the house vastly increases

the chances of someone in that house being killed or wounded by such a gun doesn't matter any more.

Or keeping one in your purse. Or loose in the car.

Excellent idea.

[dchill]

4. I like to sleep with mine!

[TheRealNorth]

7. Thats all true....

So safety training is important.

But IMO, maybe if enough of us are armed to the teeth, it may dissuade the next Republican State Legislature from selecting Republican electors despite the Democrat winning the most votes in the state.

Democracy itself is at stake, and once that is gone, there is no hope of changing things. For me, that's a Red line.

[AndyS]

5. Ha! The thought of a bunch of Rambos 'taking the country back' is fucking laughable!

That was tried back in 1861 and it didn't turn out well for the "patriots". Back then everybody had exactly the same weaponry. Today not so much. But forget the weaponry consider Command and Control. How are the 'patriots' of any color going to co-ordinate movements, know how many forces can be deployed where and where the 'enemy' is strong or weak?

This is nothing more than a gunner wet dream. Red Dawn Rising for the brain impaired.

Every fucking piece of research in the whole fucking world will tell you, if you're capable of seeing past the fog of self aggrandizement, that owning a gun makes you less safe and that the fantasy of 'defending the country' will get you killed.

[TheRealNorth]

8. So if you were a Jew in 1930's Germany....

What would be your solution? Leave the country? Wait for the Gestapo to get around to you?

But, hey, if you are a white Christian male and keep your eyes down and your mouth shut, you will probably okay in Fascist America.

[LongtimeAZDem]

16. +1

[AndyS]

21. If I were an armed Jew in 1930s Germany

I'd be just as dead. Get over the delusion that a bunch of bozos with ARs or Aks will be the saviours.

Power lies in the ballet, not the bullet.

[sarisataka]

23. Apologies in advance

I couldn't stop myself.

[AndyS]

24. Thanks!! I deserved that! I'm such a piss poor speller that if the spell checker

doesn't catch it I'm completely lost. At least I spelled the dance right . . .

Ballot???

[sarisataka]

25. Yes- and in this we are in

Complete agreement. Ballots have caused many of our current problems and ballots are the solution.

[TheRealNorth]

27. Let me know how that solution works out for you....

When the WI, MI, PA, and GA legislatures all throw out the Presidential election results (presuming that the Democratic candidate can overcome all the other rules that will make it harder for Democrats to vote).

What are you going to do when your vote really doesn't matter? March in the street? Hope you don't live in a state where they can run you over. National Boycott? I guarantee you that they have so much concentrated wealth that they can outlast us.

[sarisataka]

29. Having been in a country with an active civil war

And taught counterinsurgency from experience I have no illusions about what an open rebellion would look like.

If everything is as you say, our votes don't matter and we have already lost.

So I will turn the question- what are you going to do because your vote doesn't matter? Should we just declare Biden King Joe I and pre-empt the take over?

[sarisataka]

33. Nice try

You will have to use better bait if you want to get a bite.

Also do not mistake reticence for pacifism. IME those with the most bravado crumble first.

[sarisataka]

36. Still no

Maybe try something about my personal appearance or educational level. Usually doesn't work but you don't know, maybe I'm having a bad day and it will provoke me.

[LongtimeAZDem]

44. "Power lies in the ballet, not the bullet"

Supreme Court agrees to hear redistricting case that could have major implications for voting rights

At the center of the wide-ranging case is the fate of a legal doctrine that allows state courts to check the behavior state legislatures. A decision to undermine the courts could empower state lawmakers in disputes over redistricting maps and potentially offer them more freedom to intervene in federal elections.

The decision to hear the case is a boon to Republicans, who control the majority of state legislatures, and have seen congressional and state legislative maps struck down by state courts.

The so-called “Independent State Legislature” theory, which lies at the center of the legal nuts and bolts, was also pushed by allies of former President Donald Trump after the 2020 election as part of their bid to effectively overrule the will of voters and potentially replace electors for President Joe Biden with slates selected by Trump allies in state government.

[AndyS]

46. So . . .

Your position is that we must take up arms and overthrow the the government??????

[LongtimeAZDem]

48. No

[AndyS]

51. Then please elaborate on exactly what you are suggesting.

You lead with 'buy a semi rifle'.

I post that the power is in the ballet (sic) [ballot].

You come back with a post about the supreme court and voter suppression.

So, if not rebellion and revolution what exactly are you suggesting?

[Straw Man]

65. Not answering for him, but for myself.

I think the point was not rebelling against the government now, but being prepared for the bitter and potentially violent struggle that may ensue if the right has even partial success in their efforts to co-opt the election process. What are you going to do if a neo-fascist party elects itself through shenanigans in statehouses across the country and then proceeds to dismantle democracy as we know it?

[LongtimeAZDem]

68. Exactly +1

[yagotme]

58. When the Jews DID finally organize, and started fighting back,

they were poorly equipped and armed. However, they tied up several German units that could have been somewhere else fighting. Yes, you would have been just as dead, but you could have conceivably taken several of the Hun with you, and died on your feet as a free person, instead of on your knees, in a gas chamber, giving your brothers in arms needed time and space to do their part.

[Straw Man]

64. How about late 1920s Germany?

Hitler's rise to power came after extensive street warfare between right-wing and left-wing militias. Guess which side prevailed. Guess which side would prevail if this type of warfare started here tomorrow.

The grim lesson offered by the German experience is that once fascism takes power there is no turning back. Fascism destroys any and all opposition and thus is life-threatening for all organisations of the left. Under no conditions may the rivalries and differences among left organisations be allowed to block the united struggle against the Nazis. Building broad and united anti-fascist fronts has to be the priority of every socialist organisation. To trust the police and the state to stop the fascists is as foolish today as it was then.

https://isj.org.uk/divided-they-fell-the-german-left-and-the-rise-of-hitler/

I would substitute "center and left-of-center" for "socialist" in the second-to-last sentence above, maybe because I'm a brainwashed American centrist. Nevertheless, the statement rings true. The Trumpies are going to take another run at it, and what happens if they succeed this time?

[Kaleva]

6. Doesn't do much good unless you include military style training

Also need to connect with like minded people for mutual defense and train together . A solitary person won't last long against a group.

[TheRealNorth]

10. There is truth to that...

But I expect some moderates would really shit a brick if we started forming militias. That's why Republicans went hard against "antifa".

[mikeysnot]

9. the gun manufacturers

thank you...

[sl8]

22. Goverment surplus rifles are available. nt

[sop]

11. Liberals should also form our own Shooting Clubs.

Liberal men and women of all ages and backgrounds could get together for firearms training and target practice with their assault weapons. It might even succeed in getting AR-15s banned.

[TheRealNorth]

14. There is the Liberal Gun Club (LGC)

[Kaleva]

15. Paint ball would be better

One can learn how to handle a gun on their own but with paintball , one will learn tactics and working as a team.

[d_b]

12. K&r

[Ferrets are Cool]

13. And support the manufactureres of these killing machines?

FUCK NO

[MenloParque]

17. I agree 100%.

My niece who just turned 21 has even signed up for a week long tactical training course for LGBTQIA people in the California Sierras. Hate that the people that I love have found it necessary to travel to the mountains to learn how to fight with Ar15’s for their self-preservation. Seriously though, who the fuck am I to tell her that she can’t learn to run and gun after a hate crime that left her hospitalized a year ago. Nah fuck that weak sauce we are staying alive.

[Tetrachloride]

18. I myself don't own weapons. Just one more thing to take care of

each moment and every moment.

[jcmaine72]

19. Well, that was fast...

So, the RW interpretation of the 2nd Amendment was the correct one all along? What shall we do after we purchase and store our semi-automatic rifles, join the NRA to help protect our right to do so?

Don't become what you hate. Even if you win, you'll lose.

[niyad]

20. A fair number of my liberal and progressive friends are armed and well-equipped

to use them. I am not, nor will I be, amoung that number.

[BWdem4life]

26. Or, you could channel that anger more safely and effectively.

[LongtimeAZDem]

32. It's not anger at all

[TheRealNorth]

37. Some of the people here that don't understand the anxiety or fear

Reminds me of what Rep. Dean Philips said following 1/6.

https://m.

[usonian]

28. Nahhh, EVERYONE'S GOT ONE ANY MORE

I'm holding out for a bazooka, real or imitation, but what I REALLY want is a 300 watt or more laser.

Checking local regulations today ....

Until then, it's just the bear spray.
Nobody cares, we really have bears.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

30. Got rid of my .45 awhile ago,

now I'm wishing I didn't.

Looking to buy a nice home/truck defense handgun that's easily concealable, any suggestions?

[sarisataka]

34. We currently have a plethora of choices

My EDC is is the SIG 365. It and it's imitators provide a very effective defense that is easy to conceal to conceal.

If you are comfortable and familiar with the 1911 I would not hesitate to go all in on Rock Island. Their 1911 CS model is is built to the officer's size so is concealable. Many will sneer at it because it comes from the Philippines but they are made on Colt supplied machinery. At the range I can hold my own against people shooting ones that cost 5 times as much.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

55. I kinda like this one.

it has a good reputation, is easily concealable and in a caliber that I'm very familiar with.

Colt 1991a1.

[sarisataka]

56. Good choice

I believe it is best to go with what you are familiar with.

Best case obviously is you feel foolish carrying a heavy object for years that you never use. However if the wrong day happens you want to be able to act with confidence and not pause to think of the manual of arms.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

59. Went today to my local firearms store and bought the 1991A1 in .45 ACP,

bought 2 extra mags to go with it, shot 50 rounds through it, very comfortable in my hands and on my side.

I fucking hate that this is what it's come down to.

[d_b]

41. I highly recommend

https://m.

&t=569s

[windje]

38. Don't forget to buy ammo

There is nothing more useless than an unloaded gun. -- Tony Soprano

[yagotme]

57. "Well, a gun that's unloaded and cocked ain't worth nuthin'"

Rooster J. Cogburn.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

39. Words of caution

IMO, a firearm is a responsibility and a commitment. There are many things to learn and the first of those is the law. Mistakes in law, either through negligence, ignorance or inaction may lead to criminal charges that could impact your life, maybe to the point of restricting your right to keep and bear or worse. There won't be a public official soliciting your attention to teach the laws nor making it their business to update you on any changes.

Learn safety, practice safety, practice enough that your handling develops muscle memory in various situations. Practice carrying and shooting. IMO at least weekly.

Assess and plan initially and regularly. Understand the time and money commitments both initial and recurring. Your gun is secure when it is safely and legally carried or locked away.

If you plan to prepare for possible self-defense using a gun, take a real course. It should probably take 3-5 days to properly train. An hour safety class then an hour shooting at targets is maybe only enough to ensure you don't shoot yourself by accident. Understand that carrying means you should plan trips when you carry to avoid gun-free areas, stops at the bar and attenuating visits ANYWHERE that you would avoid were you not carrying. USMC Gun Fighting Rule #26: "Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation."

Learn about maintenance and malfunctions. Learn what to look for that might require attention from a gunsmith. Find information on the mean time before/between failures for your firearm. Plan for those expenses. Find a reputable gunsmith.

If you still feel committed and confident about acquiring a gun, try it before you buy it. The gun for you is the one you can operate with comfort and accuracy.

Lastly, if you are simply prepping for anarchy, Armageddon or the zombie apocalypse, consider the recounting of the conversation between Sgt Major Plumley and Lt. Col. Moore before the Ia Drang Battle. Moore suggested that Plumley consider getting an M-16 as Plumley carried only a 7 round M1911. Plumley replied, "Time comes I need one sir, there'll be plenty of 'em lying on the ground."

[LongtimeAZDem]

40. Good advice; thank you for your comments

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

47. You're welcome.

[TheRealNorth]

42. I mostly agree with what you said....

But not the last part about picking up the guns lying around. In a coup, you don't always see it coming and it may be over before you realize what just happened. There is a reason they are designed to happen fast - to avoid an organized resistance as people pick up what is "lying around".

Look at Ukraine. They came close to losing in the first few days as people were shocked as the invasion happened. It took a month for the defenses to stabilize as people newly recruited were able to operate as soldiers somewhat effectively.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

53. We all saw Red Dawn.

Sure, resist! If you can afford have a firearm in terms of time and money AND that really does float your boat, go for it.

However, Rule #26: "Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation."
Spelling it out for today:
- Don't make yourself a target.
- If you want to be a prepper, the first thing to stockpile is money.
- If you're concerned about home invasion, moving is likely a better idea than shotguns and claymores.

IMO, real instances like Ukraine and Afghanistan have survivors determined more by location and luck. But having a gun doesn't hurt.

I'm not familiar enough with Ukraine to comment specifically.

The spirit of the "lying around" comment was that many many things will be going horribly wrong. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Be able to morph, learn and adapt as priorities change. Your most valuable weapon is your brain.

[Kaleva]

43. +1

[beemerphill]

45. Every Liberal should already HAVE a semi-auto rifle.

They should have legally purchased one a long time back. And they should have taken lessons from a competent instructor on the safe and effective use of same. That rifle and 200 rounds of reliable ammunition they have tested in their rifle should be available when they feel the need. There is no danger from honest law-abiding citizens owning, properly storing, and knowing how to use a rifle.

[LongtimeAZDem]

49. +1

[vercetti2021]

50. Not just every liberal but also every LGBTQIA+ person

I have two handguns, two rifles now. I debated on getting rid of them. But thanks to what the fascist right is doing and the court. I refuse to do that now. We are the top of the execution list. I want us to learn safety and protection in any means.

[beemerphill]

52. vercetti2021

I could not agree with you more. EVERYONE should have the right to defend themselves. In this uncertain time, we do not know the mood of the population or what rulings will come from our leaders. My hope is that none of us will ever be in a position where it is necessary to use force to protect ourselves, but if it comes to that, I want the most effective means possible. I commend you for taking precautions. Find a competent instructor and practice the safe and proper use of your firearms. A good instructor will also teach you when and when not to use force. May you never need them, but I am happy that you have them.

[Fla_Democrat]

54. Well, I've always liked the quotes from.....

Ida B Wells https://www.azquotes.com/author/15488-Ida_B_Wells



The lesson this teaches and which every Afro-American should ponder well, is that a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home, and it should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give. When the white man who is always the aggressor knows he runs as great a risk of biting the dust every time his Afro-American victim does, he will have greater respect for Afro-American life. The more the Afro-American yields and cringes and begs, the more he has to do so, the more he is insulted, outraged and lynched. Ida B. Wells-Barnett (2014). “On Lynchings”, p.26, Courier Corporation

and

I felt that one had better die fighting against injustice than to die like a dog or rat in a trap. I had already determined to sell my life as dearly as possible if attacked. I felt if I could take one lyncher with me, this would even up the score a little bit. Ida B. Wells (2013). “Crusade for Justice: The Autobiography of Ida B. Wells”, p.62, University of Chicago Press

[radicalleft]

60. In the past year, my wife and I have both gotten our CPLs

I have also purchased an AR15 (full disclosure, I was a cop in the Air Force and I carried one every day while on duty). When my wife asked me why I wanted to get one, the answer was simple. I asked her to look at the idiots that have them (I.e. the ones that "stormed " the state capital here in Michigan and the Kyle Rittenhouse types). If they are the only ones to have them, I feel less safe in my community should the SHTF.

What I fail to understand is how liberals can see what happened on 1/6 and not realize that was just a primer...it will happen again. The supreme kangaroo court is emboldening these folks and their "leaders".

Would I want my 18 year old son to own an AR type weapon...no, he is not mature enough nor is he trained well enough. The call from Dem leaders to re-instate the AWB will encourage the RWNJ to come out in droves in the fall and that in and of itself, scares me. If we lose congress this fall...all bets are off.

[LongtimeAZDem]

61. I've been reposting this for years:

[GenXer47]

62. to do what with?

Anyone who thinks the moment the Proud Boys start marching down the street, that "civil war" will be declared, and all laws go out the window, is kidding themselves. Murder is what we're talking about here. And it's not just about laws - you'd have to live with taking a mother's son from the Earth, for the rest of your life. It's not gonna happen. If things truly get this bad, I'll volunteer with my state's National Guard, if they'll have me, and check out my firearm from the armory, like a well-regulated militia provides for.

[ManiacJoe]

63. It is not about murder.

It is about self-defense.
While all killing is unfortunate, not all killing is bad or unjustified.

In your example, the only difference is the source of the money that paid for the gun that is placed into your hands.

[TeamProg]

66. Not a bad idea, but I would rather ban all firearms from general public ownership. No text

[MarineCombatEngineer]

67. Which you know damn good and well that will never happen,

so, other than that, what else should we, as liberals, do?

[old as dirt]

69. I'll pass (nt)