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AndyS

(14,559 posts)
Mon Oct 2, 2023, 04:39 PM Oct 2023

It's "Justa" . . .

Last edited Mon Oct 2, 2023, 05:49 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm not familiar with the Justa gun company but I hear about it a lot from gun rights activists. You know, it's Justa modern sporting rifle.

In the case of the Justa AR-15 it's also just the choice of mass shooters. Oh! The Gunner says, but pistols kill more people than rifles, in fact hammers are used as often as rifles! The same they say is true of mass shootings; only 30% of mass shootings are done with the Justa AR-15.

Well if you take into account all mass shootings going back to 1984 that's true. But when these shootings are examined by time line that's not the case. In the decade from 2010-2020 the Justa AR-15 was used in 34% of such shooting sprees. However in the years since 2020 that percentage rose to 59%. The Justa is now the defacto killing machine of choice.

Not only has the number of Justas increased but the leathality of the Justa is 2.7 times that of other weapons used in mass shootings.

There was a ban on Justas from 1994 to 2004 and amazingly the number of mass shootings fell by 37%, amazingly close to the percentage of shootings committed with Justas. Gunners will eagerly point out that the ban was ineffective because the exact same rifle was still available without the military pretties like flash suppressors and bayonet mounts. But still mass shootings decreased?



Hmmm, so why did mass shootings decrease? Could it be that the marketing of the Justa is aimed at military wannabes and when the ugly black gun was off the market they lost interest? Might it just be that the way gun makers market their Justas actually generate mass shootings? We don't know because research into gun violence has been forbidden for so long. Maybe in another decade there will be enough data to find out.

I don't want to ban Justas. I'd like to have them put under the 1934 NFA that governs machine guns. I'd be willing to forego the $200 stamp to own one, just undergo the same background check it takes to buy a machine gun and have it registered to the owner with the ATF. I wonder if it's the background check or the registration that makes Gunners all butt hurt?

All the hoopla aside, forget the 2nd and the gun grabbers. The Justa is a slightly degraded military grade weapon designed to a Pentagon RFQ to be used in warfare. The marketing of the Justa is concentrated on its military ancestry and the incredible leathality it has. The people who the advertising is designed to appeal to are exactly the people we don't want to have a Justa.

Que the gunners to say, "Mass shootings are only a tiny % of all shootings!" True but they are the only source of reasonably accurate data becaue the media reports it, not the CDC or FBI.

Information from the Gunviolence archive, Statistica.com and The Trace.

43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
It's "Justa" . . . (Original Post) AndyS Oct 2023 OP
Your timely and VERY accurate post now resides on the Greatest Page. CaliforniaPeggy Oct 2023 #1
What is the definition of "military grade"? TexasDem69 Oct 2023 #3
Military grade means it's suitable for only the military to use. NOT for civilian use.nt CaliforniaPeggy Oct 2023 #5
Thanks for the prompt response TexasDem69 Oct 2023 #6
Military uses TRUE assault rifles. yagotme Oct 2023 #22
I'd prefer to treat these semiautomatic weapons TexasDem69 Oct 2023 #2
Aw c'mon. Read the frickin' OP, AndyS Oct 2023 #8
So give me a link showing that semiautomatic rifles TexasDem69 Oct 2023 #9
Go do your own frickin' homework, I'm fed up with educating AndyS Oct 2023 #11
If you don't like discussing issues, then maybe a discussion forum isn't the place for you. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2023 #12
You didn't provide any support for your post TexasDem69 Oct 2023 #14
In the time we've crossed paths you have never given any support for AndyS Oct 2023 #17
Go back an re-read your source. It refers to active shooters, not mass shootings. AndyS Oct 2023 #18
Welcome back! TexasDem69 Oct 2023 #4
Opening that registry to allow in post '86 full-autos won't be popular. discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2023 #7
Just stop with the 'what if'. It is as I presented it. AndyS Oct 2023 #10
I need to go enjoy family life now. I'll get back to you. discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2023 #13
I didn't even know that full auto gunz TexasDem69 Oct 2023 #15
Then I suggest you educate yourself. You won't accept anything I give you anyway. nt AndyS Oct 2023 #16
Open the mouth and tilt the head back . . . AndyS Oct 2023 #19
I think you are thinking of the last instance of a legally acquired full-auto being used in a crime. discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2023 #20
Nice dodge. Not wasting time on that. n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2023 #21
Considering AR-15 type rifles sales increased during the AWB hack89 Oct 2023 #23
Why did mass shooting decrease? nt AndyS Oct 2023 #24
For some other reason hack89 Oct 2023 #25
So I guess it comes down to how to define success. Is success decreasing mass shootings or AndyS Oct 2023 #26
But gun sales went up and deaths went down hack89 Oct 2023 #27
*Sigh* Someday I'll understand the gunner mentality but not soon. AndyS Oct 2023 #28
The point is the AWB didn't actually ban anything beyond minor cosmetic features hack89 Oct 2023 #29
Let try one more time. AndyS Oct 2023 #30
So you agree that more guns resulted in fewer deaths hack89 Oct 2023 #31
I did not misconstrue the Sandy Hook comment. It is a stock reply to any attempt AndyS Oct 2023 #32
Saving lives is great hack89 Oct 2023 #33
Simple question for you. hack89 Oct 2023 #34
I do not because keeping such records about guns is forbidden. AndyS Oct 2023 #35
I say the number was zero hack89 Oct 2023 #36
There's no data to support that or any other number. AndyS Oct 2023 #37
But the AWB allowed all existing owners of assault weapons to keep their weapons, correct? hack89 Oct 2023 #38
Yes it is. AndyS Oct 2023 #39
With no decrease in guns. So how could the AWB be responsible? hack89 Oct 2023 #40
I postulated a possible explanation but you seem to have missed it. AndyS Oct 2023 #41
I'll reply to you, as Andy has stated he's blocked me... yagotme Oct 2023 #43
Okay, for the sake of argument... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2023 #42

CaliforniaPeggy

(150,657 posts)
1. Your timely and VERY accurate post now resides on the Greatest Page.
Mon Oct 2, 2023, 05:36 PM
Oct 2023

Thank you for showing us so clearly just how lethal and horrible this gun actually is.

Military grade weapons have no place in the civilian population. None.

 

TexasDem69

(2,317 posts)
3. What is the definition of "military grade"?
Mon Oct 2, 2023, 07:36 PM
Oct 2023

If that’s the standard for banning private ownership of firearms it should be easily discernible.

yagotme

(3,440 posts)
22. Military uses TRUE assault rifles.
Thu Oct 5, 2023, 05:49 PM
Oct 2023

Capable of fully automatic fire. The AWB had nothing to do with full auto weapons, which are already highly regulated, as of 1934.

 

TexasDem69

(2,317 posts)
2. I'd prefer to treat these semiautomatic weapons
Mon Oct 2, 2023, 07:34 PM
Oct 2023

Like all other semiautomatic weapons—private ownership protected by the 2d Amendment subject to reasonable restrictions. The statistics you cite show they are rarely used in mass shootings, but that’s not the test in any event.

And I suspect you’re simply wrong about the prevalence of semiautomatic rifles in mass shootings since 2020, unless we’ve changed the definition of mass shootings. Any support?

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
8. Aw c'mon. Read the frickin' OP,
Mon Oct 2, 2023, 09:05 PM
Oct 2023

Justas are used in 59% of mass shootings since 2020. 59% does not equate to rarely.

Suspect all you wish but don't ask me to give additional support while doing so.

 

TexasDem69

(2,317 posts)
9. So give me a link showing that semiautomatic rifles
Mon Oct 2, 2023, 09:07 PM
Oct 2023

Have been used in 59% of all mass shootings since 2020. I’ll review that and respond.

On edit, here’s some FBI stats. The FBI says that in 2022 a bit less than half of mass shootings involved rifles. https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-incidents-in-the-us-2022-042623.pdf

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
11. Go do your own frickin' homework, I'm fed up with educating
Mon Oct 2, 2023, 09:15 PM
Oct 2023

gun humpers only to be ignored. Google is your friend, that's how I found it. I said in the OP where my information came from.

 

TexasDem69

(2,317 posts)
14. You didn't provide any support for your post
Mon Oct 2, 2023, 09:33 PM
Oct 2023

You attempted to make a point while including a single graph that doesn’t support your position and then referencing three different “sources,” without providing any link to what those sources actually say. If you can’t provide a source that supports your point then just say so. I could be wrong, and if you provide evidence then I’ll concede the point, but telling me to “do my own research” is pretty damming.

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
17. In the time we've crossed paths you have never given any support for
Mon Oct 2, 2023, 10:45 PM
Oct 2023

your drive by posts. Guess we're even on that one. If asking you to support your own position is damming (sic) so be it.

Only I did, just not to your liking.

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
18. Go back an re-read your source. It refers to active shooters, not mass shootings.
Mon Oct 2, 2023, 10:56 PM
Oct 2023

There's a difference. There's also a difference between the FBI definition of mass shooting and the accepted definition, that being the FBI only recognizes four or more KILLED and everybody else sees four or more shot in a single incident. The FBI refers to a mass murder, not a mass shooting.

Jeez I get tired of educating you gunners . . .

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,506 posts)
7. Opening that registry to allow in post '86 full-autos won't be popular.
Mon Oct 2, 2023, 08:53 PM
Oct 2023

Not with restriction fans since they probably don't want loads more machine guns on the market.
Not with current full-auto owners who would take a hit in market value.

Last I read the Gun Violence Archive defined mass shootings as 4 or more victims.


Justa question for you: if a non-AR15 style rifle (like a Ruger mini-14) is converted to "look like" an AR-15 with parts bought via the internet or wherever (no background check) does it get deadlier?

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
10. Just stop with the 'what if'. It is as I presented it.
Mon Oct 2, 2023, 09:13 PM
Oct 2023

The mini 14 costs a lot more than the AR-15 so it's a non issue although it's one of the competitors in the Pentagon RFQ.

Machine guns on the market? Have you kept up with the number of modified ARs being recovered at crime scenes? Apparently not. For as little as $30 any AR becomes full auto.

As for the value of machine guns why, exactly, should I give a shit about some gunner's investment?

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,506 posts)
13. I need to go enjoy family life now. I'll get back to you.
Mon Oct 2, 2023, 09:29 PM
Oct 2023

Feel free to do the same and have nice evening.

 

TexasDem69

(2,317 posts)
15. I didn't even know that full auto gunz
Mon Oct 2, 2023, 09:41 PM
Oct 2023

Are being used in crimes that regularly. Last one I recall is the shootout in north Hollywood in the 90s. Hell, I live in Texas and would think there are some examples here among the 20 million gun owners.

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
19. Open the mouth and tilt the head back . . .
Tue Oct 3, 2023, 11:02 AM
Oct 2023


The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the federal agency responsible for policing guns in the U.S., said it seized 1,500 weapons modified with auto sears in 2021, a staggering increase over 2020, when only 300 were recovered.

https://www.thetrace.org/2022/03/auto-sear-gun-chip-glock-switch-automatic-conversion/

There, I spoon fed you. Complete with link.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,506 posts)
20. I think you are thinking of the last instance of a legally acquired full-auto being used in a crime.
Tue Oct 3, 2023, 02:46 PM
Oct 2023

IIRC there has been one or two others since the Bank of America incident you mentioned. -shrug-

hack89

(39,171 posts)
23. Considering AR-15 type rifles sales increased during the AWB
Sat Oct 7, 2023, 08:08 AM
Oct 2023

I would disagree with you about the effectiveness of AWBs.

All you need to know is that Adam Lanza’s rifle was perfectly legal despite CT having the strictest AWB in the nation. It was not an assault weapon.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
25. For some other reason
Sat Oct 7, 2023, 12:16 PM
Oct 2023

Don’t really know. The only thing I know for certain is that the first federal AWB was so poorly written and so easy to circumvent that there were AWB compliant AR-15s on the shelves before the ink was dry.

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
26. So I guess it comes down to how to define success. Is success decreasing mass shootings or
Sat Oct 7, 2023, 12:30 PM
Oct 2023

does it necessarily have to decrease gun sales?

I would count saving lives as success, you?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
27. But gun sales went up and deaths went down
Sat Oct 7, 2023, 12:34 PM
Oct 2023

So it would appear that the AWB was irrelevant to the conversation.

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
28. *Sigh* Someday I'll understand the gunner mentality but not soon.
Sat Oct 7, 2023, 02:20 PM
Oct 2023

Well if mass shootings went down during the AWB I wouldn't say it was irrelevant. There appears to be a correlation between the AWB and mass shootings. Shootings went down during the AWB and increased after. From this evidence I'd say the AWB was a good thing and I'd like to have something like it again. Something like putting all semi auto under the 1934 NFA would do the trick I believe. Anyone can have one but they have to undergo a REAL background check and register it with the ATF.

Asking again, I count decreasing deaths a good thing, you?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
29. The point is the AWB didn't actually ban anything beyond minor cosmetic features
Sat Oct 7, 2023, 02:53 PM
Oct 2023

AR-15s were still perfectly legal. And their sales skyrocketed.

If AWBs are so effective, why didn’t it stop Sandy Hook? You’ve seen pictures of Adam Lanza’s rifle - that rifle was perfectly legal during the federal AWB as it was under CT’s even tougher AWB.

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
30. Let try one more time.
Sat Oct 7, 2023, 04:27 PM
Oct 2023


In the decade the AWB was in effect mass shootings went down. In the decade after it expired they increased. Mass shootings higher, mass shootings lower, mass shootings higher. I do not know the mechanism but I do know they went down. I postulated a possibility in the OP but really don't know why, only that it happened.

As for Sandy Hook I get reallllllly tired of the gunner reasoning that says, "If you can't stop every motherfucking one of God damn gun deaths with a single fucking law you don't need to do ANYTHING!" Don't do that anymore, it makes you look callous and less than caring. And yeah, that's what you just did.

One more time, no AWB mass shootings HIGHER, AWB mass shootings LOWER, no AWB mass shootings HIGHER.

I think saving lives is a good thing, do you?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
31. So you agree that more guns resulted in fewer deaths
Sat Oct 7, 2023, 04:37 PM
Oct 2023

Got it.

You completely (and deliberately) misconstrued my Sandy Hook argument. My point is that the AWB did not actually ban assault weapons - a point you refuse to acknowledge.

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
32. I did not misconstrue the Sandy Hook comment. It is a stock reply to any attempt
Sat Oct 7, 2023, 04:42 PM
Oct 2023

at passing a gun law of any kind. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but it's what the gun culture replys with.

That said I surrender to your obviously superior intelllect. It's a shame that you can't choke out the words that saving lives is a good thing tho . . .

hack89

(39,171 posts)
33. Saving lives is great
Sat Oct 7, 2023, 05:21 PM
Oct 2023

No disagreement here.

It is just that the federal AWB didn’t save lives. Unless you think more AR 15s on the street resulted in fewer mass shootings. Which you apparently do.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
34. Simple question for you.
Sat Oct 7, 2023, 05:24 PM
Oct 2023

How many rifles did the AWB take off the street? How many were turned in/confiscated/destroyed?

Just curious if you have a number.

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
35. I do not because keeping such records about guns is forbidden.
Sat Oct 7, 2023, 06:13 PM
Oct 2023

Gunz is special ya' know.

All I know is mass shootings went down under the AWB.

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
37. There's no data to support that or any other number.
Sat Oct 7, 2023, 08:53 PM
Oct 2023

All I know is that mass shootings went down in the 10 years the AWB was in effect. There is data to support that and I shared it with you.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
38. But the AWB allowed all existing owners of assault weapons to keep their weapons, correct?
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 09:26 AM
Oct 2023

That is the black and white text of the law, correct?

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
39. Yes it is.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 12:52 PM
Oct 2023

Mass shootings fell ~30% during the AWB. Have I mentioned that? I thought I'd mentioned that . . .

hack89

(39,171 posts)
40. With no decrease in guns. So how could the AWB be responsible?
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 05:05 PM
Oct 2023

That's what you refuse to explain

AndyS

(14,559 posts)
41. I postulated a possible explanation but you seem to have missed it.
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 05:38 PM
Oct 2023

Another item of interest in the graph was that while shootings decreased ~30% deaths decreased almost 50%. Hmmm, considering that ARs used in mass shooting kill 2.7x more than other types of weapons could it be that fewer ARs were used in those shootings?

Beyond that I don't need to explain anything to you, so just get over yourself.

By the way did I mention that mass shootings went down during the AWB ban? You may have missed that . . .

yagotme

(3,440 posts)
43. I'll reply to you, as Andy has stated he's blocked me...
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 08:26 PM
Oct 2023

Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

Counting incidents from 1974-1983, I get 18 incidents, 5 or more killed, and a total of 116 killed. Perhaps a general decrease was already happening, and just cycled over into the AWB.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,506 posts)
42. Okay, for the sake of argument...
Sun Oct 8, 2023, 07:48 PM
Oct 2023

...by whatever number of deaths (6 or more) we use as a criterion, we accept that gun massacres decreased during the federal AWB.

Where do we go from here?

Maybe we just restart the AWB:
Ban the sale of:
Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and has two or more of the following:
-Folding or telescoping stock
-Pistol grip
-Bayonet mount
-Flash hider or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
-Grenade launcher (I think the actual text was more like grenade launcher mounts)

Do we bring this back?

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