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AndyS

(14,559 posts)
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 04:52 PM Oct 2023

Mass public shootings today are more frequent and deadlier.

https://www.theviolenceproject.org/key-findings/

Fascinating study about mass shootings in the US. Covers the '60s to present. Although it's not the central theme of the study it does put to rest the idea that it's Justa Modern Sporting rifle. Well, maybe if the sport is killing people quickly and efficiently.

The AR-15 and it's derivatives is the most lethal weapon ever marketed to the civilian public. THE MOST LETHAL EVER period.

Below is a still shot of one of the graphs at the cite. Gunners will tell you that rifles are less than 30% of guns used in mass shootings. True if you average all shootings since 1960. However if we break down the graph by decades the % of rifles (all ARs by the way) used has grown from 2% to 30% to 59% in the last ten years. If we only take the last 5 years into account the % grows to 90%.

Not only are the majority of mass shootings done with ARs but the fatality rate is many times higher than shootings with other kinds of weapons. The graph below is interactive at the link. It gives the incident, the AR type used as well as the number of casualties.
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GreenWave

(7,718 posts)
1. As Lawrence O'Donnell says, "The NRA makes sure our mass murderers are the best equipped on the planet."
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 04:57 PM
Oct 2023

yagotme

(3,444 posts)
11. Most of my firearms are well regulated.
Sat Oct 28, 2023, 10:02 PM
Oct 2023

The bullet lands at the point of aim at a certain yardage.

ETA: Still doesn't define "deer hunting". No answer to initial query. Fail.

multigraincracker

(33,186 posts)
12. Well, Shays Rebellion must not have
Sat Oct 28, 2023, 10:30 PM
Oct 2023

been regulated enough to deter George Washington from upholding the Constitution as it was written about not long before.

yagotme

(3,444 posts)
13. You mean the Articles of Confederation?
Sat Oct 28, 2023, 10:54 PM
Oct 2023

Shay's helped lead to the current constitution. Having a stronger central government rather than a weaker one, allowing it to have more control over State's policies, like over lending practices. I'm a little confused by your post.

multigraincracker

(33,186 posts)
14. So the Federal Gov can put down
Sat Oct 28, 2023, 11:05 PM
Oct 2023

any organized or unorganized militia.
So what’s the deal? You all for nut cases like this current gun nut having the right to his weapon of choice. Don’t think you’ll find much sympathy here.

yagotme

(3,444 posts)
16. WHERE did I ask for sympathy?
Sat Oct 28, 2023, 11:14 PM
Oct 2023

The current "gun nut", as you say, spent time in a military hospital for mental problems. A measly 2 weeks. Like wanting to shoot up his base. However, the Army didn't see fit to notify local LEO of this, to get him entered into the NICS database. LIKE THE LAW ALLOWS!!! If only the current laws were enforced, perhaps we wouldn't have a need to call for new ones. Wait, laws not being obeyed, so we need new ones? Makes very little sense, doesn't it. All those drunk drivers, let's ban alcohol, too, while we're at it. It's for the children, after all, and if it saves one life...

ETA; And, to your initial question, yes they can. Was it the right thing to do? Had grievances been filed, and ignored? If we CAN do a thing, SHOULD we do it??? (Research shows that most of the rebels were not prosecuted, and/or pardoned, including Shay himself. What does that say about the Gov't crackdown?)

yagotme

(3,444 posts)
18. How about tightening up the current law?
Mon Oct 30, 2023, 09:28 AM
Oct 2023

The last shooter should have been reported to NICS. Shouldn't have been allowed to purchase a firearm anyway. THAT would be a great start.

WhiteTara

(29,822 posts)
3. I feel sick to my stomach.
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 05:39 PM
Oct 2023

I'm so happy we live in the country. My friends in the neighborhood all agreed. We are in a tiny "safe" bubble.

 

TexasDem69

(2,317 posts)
5. The article states that more than half of mass shootings
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 10:26 PM
Oct 2023

Involve handguns. There nothing wrong with an individual owining semiautomatic rifles. There’s millions and millions in circulation, and you point to a few hundred incidents over 50 years.

But if there are the votes to ban them, and the Supreme Court agrees, then have at it.

yagotme

(3,444 posts)
7. Sure about that???
Wed Oct 25, 2023, 11:34 AM
Oct 2023
The AR-15 and it's derivatives is the most lethal weapon ever marketed to the civilian public. THE MOST LETHAL EVER period.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_submachine_gun

(snip)
The weapon was also sold to the general public. Because it could be obtained so easily, the Thompson became notorious during the Prohibition era as the signature weapon of various organized crime syndicates in the United States in the 1920s. It was a common sight in the media at the time, and was used by both law enforcement officers and criminals.
(snip)

100 rounds of .45 ACP at full auto can be pretty deadly.

SYFROYH

(34,195 posts)
8. THE MOST LETHAL EVER period. All caps in bold too for emphasis, no doubt.
Wed Oct 25, 2023, 12:42 PM
Oct 2023

Actually, I don't think that's true. We once allowed fully automatic machine guns to be mail-ordered and delivered to homes without even a background check.

So if you think your statement is true about AR15s, then you must think that full-automatic weapons were less lethal. Are you ok with making these less-lethal weapons more available again?

Or is your claim in the OP incorrect?


AndyS

(14,559 posts)
10. Placed side by side the "tommy gun" you mention
Wed Oct 25, 2023, 01:36 PM
Oct 2023

is less lethal than an AR15. The Tommy gun fired a .45 cal bullet with a muzzle velocity of about 900 fps. The AR fires .223 at 3000 fps. The difference in ballistic behavior is what makes the AR more lethal. The .45 bullet will normally pass through or embed in the human body. The .223 will vaporize water in the body causing a shock wave that magnifies the damage and then it 'tumbles' so that a shoulder wound may have a lower back exit wound. This is why the kill rate in mass shootings is 2.7 times higher for ARs than for other weapons used in mass shootings. Ask the surgeons that treat such wounds.

Dr. Jeremy Cannon, a trauma surgeon at Penn Presbyterian Medical Center in Philadelphia, served in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

“The tissue destruction is almost unimaginable,” said Dr. Cannon, in a Times article following the February 2018 mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. “Bones are exploded, soft tissue is absolutely destroyed. The injuries to the chest or abdomen — it’s like a bomb went off.


Using Typical gunner logic you leap to the conclusion that because one is more lethal than the other the less lethal should be legal. I'm not even going to address that foolishness.

yagotme

(3,444 posts)
15. Wow, those old time military muzzleloaders should be outlawed, too.
Sat Oct 28, 2023, 11:09 PM
Oct 2023

They tend to explode bones, too. Ask any civil war doctor how many amputations he had to do.

Since you don't think the .45 ACP is nearly as lethal as 5.56, how about 7.62 NATO? Here's some numbers to crunch: 20 rd standard magazine, 147 gr FMJBT bullet, approx. 2700 FPS. I'd say that one is a bit more lethal. Will have the same target effect as the 5.56, with more penetration. (Don't know why, but every VN vet I've talked to that had a choice, kept the M-14. Maybe that should tell us something...)

yagotme

(3,444 posts)
20. Won't be the first time, probably not the last...
Thu Nov 2, 2023, 09:01 AM
Nov 2023

Can't let the facts get in the way of a good gun banner argument.

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