Bloomberg: ‘Stand Your Ground’ Laws Don’t Belong in Civilized Society (Bloomy at it again)

[shadowrider]

Mayor Michael Bloomberg went down to Washington D.C. earlier today to advocate for limits to “Stand Your Ground” laws, made famous the recent shooting of Trayvon Martin, which allow looser standards for the use of deadly force. Flanked by representatives of groups like the NAACP and National Urban League, he announced a new initiative to push states, particularly Florida, to reform their self-defense laws.

“These laws are not the kind of laws that a civilized society should have,” Mr. Bloomberg said at the event. “This has nothing to do with gun owners’ rights, nothing to do with the Second Amendment. Plain and simple, this is just trying to give people a license to murder.”

“No civilized society that I know of, outside of America, has laws that permit anybody to just decide someone shouldn’t be alive, pull out a gun, shoot them, and get away with it,” he later added.

(The actual standard to use deadly force under these types of laws, according to Wikipedia, is “reasonable belief of a threat, without an obligation to retreat first.”)

http://www.politicker.com/2012/04/11/bloomberg-stand-your-ground-laws-dont-belong-in-civilized-society/

“No civilized society that I know of, outside of America, has laws that permit anybody to just decide someone shouldn’t be alive, pull out a gun, shoot them, and get away with it,”

That's a hoot. I'm still laughing. NOBODY IN THE US can decide someone shouldn't be alive and shoot them. That's against the law.

[rrneck]

1. He's trying to whore all he can off the issue

before Zimmerman goes down for murder two.

[Cooley Hurd]

2. Go Bloomberg!!!!

Woot!!! SYG is a travesty!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. Your support for a notorious 1%er is noted

[Rhiannon12866]

8. Even a stopped clock...

And he's right on this one.

[Straw Man]

10. So will Bloomie's armed guards observe their duty to retreat ...

... if he is attacked? Oh, wait -- they don't have to: they're cops.

Isn't that convenient?

[Remmah2]

16. Obviously SYG does not apply to Bloomberg's cronies.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-12-15/news/27084338_1_man-shot-ballistic-evidence-shooting

When you have an army and personal body guards who needs SYG laws anyway?

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. For once he's right.

[PavePusher]

9. No, he's a fucktard, and utterly incorrect.

I'll ber $5 that his armed body guards, with access to full-auto weapons, don't pay any attention to "duty to retreat". Nor his "army".

[DonP]

4. The Gun Control "enthusiasts" are all excited now

Last edited Wed Apr 11, 2012, 08:49 PM - Edit history (1)

They're so cute ... and pointless when they get worked up. Well, except for Bloomie who is just a total elitist dick and well guarded hypocrite under any and all circumstances.

This is the first chance they think they've had for over a decade to try and get some of the pro-second amendment measures repealed. But it ain't gonna happen.

It's easier for them and their media lap dogs to focus on one high profile event than to look at the actual facts of violent crime. If the general public knew that violent crime, and crime with guns was still dropping after hitting 40 year lows, they probably wouldn't pay any attention to their spiel. That's why FBI UCR releases are always buried on page 26, after the Labor Day Lawnmower sale at Lowe's.

I honestly think that some of them, like Bloomberg, are way more concerned about getting gun control back on track than addressing what actually happened in Florida. They think this is their big chance to resurrect a dead movement and achieve a "win" after 15 years losing in court, in elections and in the public eye. Remember that it's Brady that sends out those tasteful fund raising letters after every high profile shooting.

But ... if they can just keep people talking about this one high profile case, whether it has anything to do with SYG, Castle or the price of lemons in Sweden, they may get some traction and then their idiot buddies in the media can pick it up and maybe, just maybe, make a cause out of it and run the Brady membership rolls into triple digits.

The good news, OTOH, is gun control people are inherently lazy and make no real effort to ever actually do anything and this will start to fade as soon as Zimmerman is locked up. "I'm too busy", "I have to spend all my money on my bills ... and 5 Latte's every week", "I vote for gun control candidates" (not many of those around lately thankfully, unless you count Romney?) but nothing in the real world for their "deeply held belief" in gun control.

Oh, they'll post relentlessly and ferociously online here and there for a while, but ultimately ... they always rely on somebody else to do all the heavy lifting for them, since they aren't really committed enough to actually write a check, pass a petition or join any gun control groups.

[X_Digger]

5. ..says Mr. "I've got an army" Bloomberg?!? Fuck him. n/t

[friendly_iconoclast]

22. And the Crown Victorias his 'army' rode in on...

[Oneka]

7. Seems old Bloomie is a bit off the mark

when he says:

“No civilized society that I know of, outside of America, has laws that permit anybody to just decide someone shouldn’t be alive, pull out a gun, shoot them, and get away with it,” he later added.

Here is the relevant section of Florida's, use of force law.

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Anyone here see where it says that, a resident of Florida, can "decide someone shouldn’t be alive, pull out a gun, shoot them, and get away with it"?


I sure as hell don't.

What it does say , is "meet force with force", that means that no one can use force, unless and until force has been used against him/her, outside of their own dwelling. That's a far cry from killing at will.

Too bad most people won't bother to actually read the statute, and just take old Bloomie's word for it, that this law is a license to kill innocent people, for no reason other than, I wanted to.

[sarisataka]

11. Last time I picked on the Honorable Mayor of New York City I got cussed out

But then I don't learn too well

From the article-

Mr. Bloomberg made two points about his involvement in other states’ laws in this regard. First, he and his family travel to these states and have a basic wish to be safe.

“I go to states with stand-your-ground laws, my daughters go to states with stand-your-ground laws,” he said. “This is part of America and I think these kinds of laws that lead to vigilantism are just not appropriate.”

Does 'Hizzonor' take his personal bodyguards or members of his army when he visits these other states and goes for a walk down Main Street to the Corner Cafe?

He also made the argument that, with recent legislation moving forward in Washington D.C., Florida’s laws could directly apply to New York.

“Just weeks after the [Trayvon Martin shooting], United States senators introduced NRA-backed legislation that would require all states to honor any permit to carry a concealed weapon issued by any other state,” he said. “In fact, Florida authorities have still not, as far as I know, revoked George Zimmerman’s concealed carry permit. So if Congress passed the legislation today, he could legally carry a gun in New York City.”

I know 'Hizzonor' is a busy man, making proclamations and all so this might have slipped his mind. I feel it is my civic duty to remind him, lest he make an untrue statement in public (oh the shame that would be )

Official Summary
11/16/2011--Passed House amended. National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011 - Amends the federal criminal code to authorize a person who is carrying a valid, government-issued identification document containing that person's photograph and a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm in one state, and who is not prohibited from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm under federal law, to possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machine gun or destructive device) in another state in accordance with the restrictions of that state.

So visitors would have to follow NY restrictions

*Whew* That was close. I am glad I could remind him before he would say something ridiculous like

America, has laws that permit anybody to just decide someone shouldn’t be alive, pull out a gun, shoot them, and get away with it

Oh, oops

[spin]

12. It's damn good to be part of the 1% in the United States ...

and Bloomberg wants to make sure that it stays that way.

I suspect that he seriously feels that only the rich, the famous and the well connected should own firearms. The rest of us should be treated like the unintelligent animals that we obviously are and penned and pepper sprayed if and when we step too far out of line. The concept that the lower classes should have the same rights as the 1% could endanger the foundation of our society. After all, the cream always rises to the top.

&feature=related

[Hoyt]

13. He might be a dick otherwise, but he is right on this.

[gejohnston]

14. How so?

It seems that US common law have been doing away with DTR over the past 150 years. That is how Washington State and Utah became SYG. The Florida law is:

Fla. Stat. § 776.012. Use of force in defense of person

A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;

and the list goes on from there. It does not say shit about "shoot first" or any of that other nonsense.

[Hoyt]

17. Most people who carry guns never get past the part that says, "with my gun, I can stand my ground."

Really simple. You and some others here may go through a lengthy legal analysis before pulling your gun and shooting an unarmed teenager (although, I think that group is pretty small), but most folks who carry guns are not that concerned about the details. They carry a gun to stand their ground, and that is all that matters to them.

For that reason, these laws are BS and just NRA and other right wing gun owners' wet dreams. Sorry to put it bluntly, but it seems to take that to get through to the Zimmermans of the world.

[gejohnston]

18. first most of us would never shoot an unarmed teenager

and most have been by court decisions. That said, the sidewalk is a deadly weapon if our head is being pounded on it. More people are killed by bare fists than by "assault weapons".
Ultimately, why should you have a duty to retreat from skin head? An even better question is duty to whom?

[Hoyt]

19. That's what you would have said about Zimmerman, prior-to-shooting-an-unarmed-teenager.

[ManiacJoe]

21. What do you base this broad statement on?

Really simple. You and some others here may go through a lengthy legal analysis before pulling your gun and shooting an unarmed teenager (although, I think that group is pretty small), but most folks who carry guns are not that concerned about the details. They carry a gun to stand their ground, and that is all that matters to them.

Your perception of reality seems very off from lots of other folks.

[Hoyt]

27. Go to a gun store and look at those scarfing up the latest weapons. Then tell me they have read

the law and UNDERSTAND it.

[ManiacJoe]

72. Your crystal ball must be better than mine.

The only thing I get get from watching folks buy things is an understanding of the purchasing preferences.

Now if you meant that you wanted to talk to the buyers while they are there, that would make more sense.

[AH1Apache]

23. Stop Hoyt

just stop.
With every post you make yourself look more and more ignorant about those of us who take the time to acquire a CHL.
Why don't you show us the stats that most CHL holders are not concerned about the details and that the reason we carry firearms is to "stand their ground".
How the fuck do you know what happened that night with Zimmerman? Oh yeah, I forgot, you are everywhere, everytime. Wish I had a Transporter to be everywhere, everytime.

[Hoyt]

26. You are right, Zimmerman is your typical law-abiding gun carrier. I apologize for blasting Zimmie.

Every public gun carrier should aspire to be like Zimmie.

[AH1Apache]

28. You never fail do you?

Who here has said, besides you, that "Every public gun carrier should aspire to be like Zimmie"?
So, I'll ask again, were you there that night, did you see everything that went down and if so, why haven't you come forward and told the investigators what really went down.
Unlike you and many others, I'm waiting for the trial and facts to come out and then I'll make up my mind on whether he is guilty or not guilty.
I thought that in our justice system a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty by a jury of their peers, do you ascribe to this belief, or do you think we should just throw this basic tenent of our justice system away because you don't like guns?

[AH1Apache]

30. Still waiting Hoyt

All I'm getting so far from you is the sound of crickets, which, BTW, is your usual response, or should I say, your usual non response when asked a question. This is why you are regarded with..., well, you can figure it out.

[Hoyt]

31. Zimmerman shot an unarmed teenager with his "legal" gun.

That's all anyone needs to know. Now whether the worthless POS should be given life or 10 years, I'll leave to jury -- hope there are 12 jurors who will convict the sob who would not have gotten out of his car without his frigging gun. Obviously, he would not have killed Trayvon sans gun.

[Callisto32]

36. "That's all anyone needs to know."

This is why we don't employ the "Hoyt standard" in court.

[shadowrider]

37. The only question I have is

Does Hoyt prefer Zimmerman be hung, shot or given the needle before he gets a trial?

[Hoyt]

39. Shadow, you've been defending Zimmerman since day one, and will probably defend him for eternity.

Not into lynching. Nor do I prepare to play Jesus, jury and executioner by shooting someone with a split second of deliberation like most gun toters.

[shadowrider]

45. If by defending, you mean waiting to get all the facts before I declare him guilty

Then I guess I'm guilty.

If you can produce one post, just one, that I've made in which I've said Zimmerman is not guilty, I'll kiss your behind on the courthouse steps and give you one hour to draw a crowd.

I've never said that, so it won't happen. All I've said all along is to wait for the facts. Nothing more, nothing less.

[AH1Apache]

46. Facts don't matter to Hoyt

just hyperbole and don't expect him to produce any posts of you saying that, as I said, facts don't matter to him.

[Hoyt]

60. Ha. Like you carry a gun in case you have to make a split second decision and shoot someone who

might be unarmed. Howsabout using some of that in condemning Zimmerman and all "legal" gun carriers like him.

Sometimes I think the problem is that you guys can see yourself in the same situation.

[AH1Apache]

61. Ha. Like you know what your talking about.

Why should I condemn Zimmerman before the trial? I wasn't there, I don't know all the facts, that's why I'm waiting for the trial before I make up my mind, unlike you who just wants to convict him without a trial.
You don't know fuckall how I see myself, and yes, I am a "legal gun carrier" who took the time to go through all the steps to become a "legal gun carrier".

[Hoyt]

62. Calm down, you might shoot someone.

[AH1Apache]

64. Calm down?

what makes you think I'm excited? I dare say that I've been in many, many more life threatening situations than you and I know how to keep calm and if you think I'm getting excited about what you have to say, don't flatter yourself, all you do is amuse me with your obvious lack of knowledge of those of us who chose to become lawful CHL holders.
Since I've retired from the Army, I've never shot anyone or drawn my "lawfully carried weapon" so take your little snark and respectfully put it where the sun don't shine.

[Hoyt]

70. You sound quite typical to me.

[AH1Apache]

81. You finally got something right Hoyt

I am your typical law abiding CHL holder, I carry responsibly and try to avoid trouble at all costs, but rest assured that if forced with no other option available, I will defend myself and my wife with deadly force. I will be quite unhappy that I had to but I'm not the one making that decision, it would be the dirtbag that forced me to do so.

[Hoyt]

84. The odds of that are so small. Get a portable defibrillator, more likely to need it.

[AH1Apache]

85. The odds are small

but there is still a chance it could happen, and BTW, I do carry a portable defib as my wife has a heart condition.

[Hoyt]

87. In that respect, I wish you both well.

[AH1Apache]

88. Thank you, I appreciate it

She's had 3 major heart attacks in the 40 years we've been married with several other incidents throughout the years, but she's a fighter and refuses to give up or slow her down.

[Hoyt]

89. That is a a rough situation. Hope you guys continue well.

Wish I had a defibrillator when my wife had a heart attack. Took emergency units forever, but wouldn't have made much difference.

OK, back to shooting at each other on keyboard.

[Hoyt]

79. You'd think someone with your background would realize we are not in a war zone here.

Such paranoia and guns do not go well together.

[AH1Apache]

82. Someone with my background does realize we aren't in a war zone here

Who are you to analyze me? I have no paranoia at all. I hope you didn't spend alot of money for you online psycology degree because, quite frankly, you suck at it.

[Hoyt]

83. You get what you pay for.

[AH1Apache]

86. Then you should demand your money back!!!!

Just sayin.

[Callisto32]

93. "Hanged."

Does Hoyt prefer he be "hanged..."

[AH1Apache]

38. OMFG

Did you really say that? And you claim that most gun owners are RW bigoted assholes. Jeebus Hoyt, you've really shown your true colors.
That is the most asshole statement you've made to date, I can't wait to see how you top it.

[Hoyt]

40. I know, you think Zimmerman is an upstanding member of gun culture.

[AH1Apache]

41. This post will probably get deleted

but Hoyt you are so dishonest, show me one post where I held up Zimmerman as an upstanding member of the so called gun culture, just one, otherwise retract your dishonest statement.

[AH1Apache]

47. C'mon Hoyt

still waitin for you to produce any posts of where I held up Zimmerman as an upstanding member of the so called gun culture.

[Hoyt]

43. Most pro-gunners would wait 20 years to condemn permitted gun carrier's shooting unarmed teenager.

[AH1Apache]

44. So you were there that night

you saw everything that happened? So, why haven't you told investigators what really happened? Are you going to testify for the prosecution? Or should we just dispense with the trial and go straight to the sentencing phase because the Almighty, All Seeing Hoyt knows exactly what happened that night?
Teh stupid, it must really hurt.

[Hoyt]

49. You weren't there either, but it's pretty clear what happened -- listen to the 911 call.

Heck, your boy even violated advice of the pro-gun-carriers here to turn off the cell phone after calling 911 so they can't catch a gun carrier in a lie about the necessity of shooting an unarmed person.

[AH1Apache]

52. Jesus Hoyt

can you get anymore ridiculous? No, I wasn't there which is why I'm willing to wait for the trial and all the facts to come out before I make up my mind on innocence or guilt unlike you or other posters on this board.
For you to claim what you have so far is just breathtaking and shows just what a closed mind you really have.
BTW, got those quotes yet?

[Hoyt]

53. You are right. Until the jury is in, Zimmerman is just a fine upstanding gun carrier ready to shoot

an unarmed teenager.

[AH1Apache]

56. You just can't resist can you?

Zimmerman is PRESUMED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW BY A JURY OF HIS PEERS. What part of that don't you understand?
Oh, but once again, I forgot, you used your transporter to be their that night and you know exactly what went down. I can't wait to hear your testimony on the witness stand.

[shadowrider]

57. What amazes me, well, not so much

is that certain posters condemn gun owning toters of being vigilantes in the worst way, yet the outcry for Zimmermans blood, WELL AFTER the incident occurred, and before a trial, is a textbook definition of vigilantism. They're guilty, but you'll never get them to admit it.

[rl6214]

29. "They carry a gun to stand their ground, and that is all that matters to them. "

As usual YOU HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE...

Most people that carry want to avoid a confrontation at all costs. That is what concealed carry classes stress the most, avoid and defuse any confrontations and drawing you gun should be the last resort.

For that reason, your arguement as usual is BS and your wet dream.

[Hoyt]

32. Most people who carry are like Zimmerman. They don't intend to ruin families, but

they are prepared to do so when they strap on a gun. Things happen, kid gets killed, previously law-abiding citizens claims they were defending themselves. At least they get a trial -- unlike Trayvon.

People need to understand there are lots of Zimmermans out there. The Damn gun lobbies are OK with more like him.

[gejohnston]

33. and the ones that are?

you mean a fair trial that Rosie Barr and Spike Lee wanted to give him? Those two assholes are the definition of "vigilante". Look it up.

[Hoyt]

34. No worse than your gun carrying buddy Zimmerman.

If the friggin law-abiding gun carrier Zimmerman hadn't shot innocent, unarmed teenager, none of that would have happened. Stick to the reason all this us going on. There are plenty of right wing forums to cry for Zimmerman and his gun, SYG, and the NRA.

[sarisataka]

35. Is this a law abiding gun owner?

The unarmed man shot by Mayor Bloomberg's bodyguard in a fight over a woman says he was threatened at gunpoint by the elite officer before and cops took no action.

LePaul Gammons, man shot by Mayor Bloomberg's body guard, to sue for $5 million
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-12-15/news/27084338_1_man-shot-ballistic-evidence-shooting

[Hoyt]

42. Nope, but we are talking about Zimmerman and those like him.

I suspect most of you who can't venture out without a gun in you pants would hire body guards too if you could afford to and were a high profile person.

[shadowrider]

48. Honest question here Hoyt

You live in a "shall issue" state. How many times a day do LEGAL gun owners draw their weapons and point them at you?

5? 10? 20?

or

Is it "None"?

[AH1Apache]

50. Well according to him

it's happened several times and a few times he has disarmed them barehandedly and thrown their weapons in the bushes.

[rl6214]

73. "a few times he has disarmed them barehandedly and thrown their weapons in the bushes."

Don't forget this was after he stripped the weapon down all in one sweeping motion

[oneshooter]

78. don't forget all the CHL holders he has chased down and detained

untill the police could "check their papers"

How many is it now? 30? 50? 100? We would all like to know.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Hoyt]

51. It's happened to me 3 times that I know of. I suspect more fondled their gun just to make sure it

was there.

[shadowrider]

54. I see. So for no reason at all, they pointed guns at you

Is that correct? Or did you do something to give them pause?

Just curious.

[Hoyt]

55. Well I wasn't robbing them or anything. One got pissed over my Obama bumper sticker.

[AH1Apache]

59. Right Hoyt

someone pulled a gun on you because of an Obama bumper sticker.
Something reeks here.

[Hoyt]

63. The weasel pulled his gun when I asked him what's his problem.

Gun toters I've known don't like being confronted with their stupidity, bigotry, need to pack, etc. They are pitiful really.

[AH1Apache]

65. I'm sure

it really happened that way Hoyt, really, I believe you.
Did you report it to the police? If not, why not?

[Hoyt]

68. Because the sob likely won't pull that again.

[sarisataka]

77. An unreported

DHU against an unreported DGU?

I thought no one believed in unreported DGUs

[shadowrider]

66. I see. You CONFRONTED him with his stupidity, bigotry and need to pack.

Perhaps he felt a possible imminent harm to his health or life.

I'll keep other comments to myself lest a jury delete the post.

[Hoyt]

69. Nope, he "confronted" me. Ah, go ahead -- you have

my permission. Jury, let the man speak his mind.

[shadowrider]

71. You said this "Gun toters I've known don't like being confronted with their stupidity, bigotry, need

to pack"

That statement indicates you confronted him. Now you say he confronted you. Which is it?

[rl6214]

76. HE confronted YOU?

But here you claim to have confronted him. Which is it or did it really happen at all?


Hoyt (6,031 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

63. The weasel pulled his gun when I asked him what's his problem.

Gun toters I've known don't like being confronted with their stupidity, bigotry, need to pack, etc. They are pitiful really.

[rl6214]

75. "when I asked him what's his problem."

Oh, so you initiated the confrontation, escalated the situation then claim to have disarmed him

What a joke

[AH1Apache]

58. I'm sure it has Hoyt.

[rl6214]

74. If it's really happened three times then you must really be a real...

(insert descriptive adjective of your choice) to have all of those people pulling guns on you

[Hoyt]

80. But, I thought you guys only pulled them when your life is threatened.

Course that's always been B'S.

[sarisataka]

67. But... Most people who carry are like Zimmerman...

and this is an armed bodyguard of one of the most anti-gun people in the country. And from the article I infer that he is a sworn officer.
He shot a fleeing, unarmed man. He is already one up on Zimmerman; no one claims Travon was fleeing.

I suspect most of you who can't venture out without a gun in you pants would hire body guards too if you could afford to and were a high profile person.

Nope, won't ask anyone to do something I won't do myself. I would remain responsible for my own security. And I will prove that just as soon as I win the megamillions

Zimmerman would not want me on his jury. I would give the evidence a fair listen but I am aware of the spirit of SYG- the letter leaves something to be desired... He would need to convince me that he did not initiate the confrontation. No I am not prejudging. If the prosecution just went with what is public knowledge, it appears he did initiate. The defense now needs to refute that.

[rl6214]

25. Yeah, him and his supporters,

one big circle jerk

[ileus]

15. says the gun grabber...

FMB

[Clames]

20. Bloomberg is whistling in the dirt...

...as SYG isn't going away and states are increasing rights for lawful gun owners no matter how much he whines.

[rl6214]

24. Just another day of grandstanding from the ex republican

idolized by the anti-gun zealots.

[fightforfreedom123]

90. Zimmerman is going down

The more you whine, the more your bigotry shows, the more people question pro gun laws.

[AH1Apache]

91. So you've already convicted him?

Well, hell, what the fuck do we need a trial for? Let's just go straight to the sentencing phase and and put him in prison because, according to you, he's guilty,
Myself, I'll wait for the trial and facts to come out before I make up my mind on whether he's innocent or guilty. I mean, after all, doesn't our justice system say that he is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of his peers?

[X_Digger]

92. He's a low-post count troll, already PPR'd.

Morons like that don't last long.

[rl6214]

94. I thought we were talking about Bloomie?

The only whining being done is by you and your friends.

"your bigotry shows"

Towards rich ex republican mayors that lie, produce jacked up hidden camera videos that have lots of body guards and a private army?