More gun fail

[mvccd1000]

Why don't these people understand that carrying a gun is false protection? At best, you can never pull it in time to use it. At worst, the criminal will take it away from you and use it against you.

Or not.

From the AP, via one of the local news station websites:

Authorities in Georgia say a grandmother foiled a robbery attempt by two armed men by getting into a shootout with them, injuring one man.

Police told The Telegraph that Lulu Campbell just dropped off her grandson at her daughter's house early Saturday morning when someone demanded money outside her car, threatening to shoot her.

Campbell says the man fired at her, missing. The 57-year-old fired back, striking him in the chest. Her truck sustained eight bullet holes in the hood, one in the grill. Both front side windows were destroyed. The second man fled after she shot at him.

Hmm, grandmother, probably too small to resist physically, attempted robber in her face, no time to call the police, she had just dropped off her granddaughter, so kinda hard to "avoid the area and stay where it's safe," and the criminal had already shot at her, so supposedly she "had no time to pull her own gun," at least according to several gun control advocates here.

In spite of all of those things, her legally-carried handgun saved her money and possibly her life, and one felon with no regard for civilized society is off the streets.

As for my subject line, "More gun fail?" Well, the criminal was armed.... guess his gun failed him.

[safeinOhio]

1. If her handgun had been registered

the same results.

[gejohnston]

5. and registration does what?

besides piss money away on theater. It really does nothing else.

[hack89]

6. And you think the criminal would have a registered handgun? nt

[Remmah2]

25. We need to pass a law requiring criminals to pre-declare their crimes.

Sort of like a pilots flight plan.

The should also be required to have the victim co-sign a permission slip.

Yup

Major satire.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

7. You are correct... the criminals would still have obtained guns as if registration wasn't there.

The tremendous amount of money spent on registration would have been wasted. Everything would have been the same... well except for the government having pissed away hunreds of millions of dollars and dems expending tons of political capital.

So why do you want registration again?

[safeinOhio]

9. $350 to $1,100 for a handgun. $20 for a box of shells.

$35 a year to join the NRA. $10, one time to register a handgun. I know some are too cheap to even subscribe to a website they post thousands of times a year on, but, I don't see cost as a problem. Hell, in most states it cost from $50 to $250 every year to register a car or truck.
Eventually illegal handguns would get harder and harder to find. You can't sell it to anyone without breaking the law. Can't shoot it in self defense without breaking the law and you can't even take it any where. Plus, for a change it can be traced.
There is nothing in the 2nd that would prevent it, in fact the prefatory clause of the 2nd, almost cries out for it. If you look at any poll on it, most people, even gun owners are in favor of registration, of handguns only, and background checks on all sales. Just the extremist on the gun rights side are against it, just like the extremist on the control side are for banning guns.

[gejohnston]

10. replying to yourself?

Canada has been registering handguns since 1934, how is that working out? How often are guns traced back to the criminal?
If we go along with handgun registration (which the control extremists admit they want to use for confiscation) what do we get in return? It won't reduce crime, everyone knows it. When it does not work, there will be demands for more concessions. There is reasonable compromise then there is gradual concession. The history of Native American treaties are perfect examples of the latter.

[safeinOhio]

13. No registration of long guns.

If the government goes crazy, they'll want the long gun, not the handguns.
Works well in Switzerland. The registration of full auto is working great.

The old slippery slope argument. I'm old enough to remember Vietnam and the domino theory, how'd that work out? I would agree if it included long guns.

Most of the illegal handguns in Canada come from the States.

[gejohnston]

15. I'm not talking about dictatorial governments

or any of that shit. is I am talking about Brady et al.
Switzerland has been doing it only since 1999, and they have their own Brady Bunch who think their high suicide rate would magically disappear. They also clutch their pearls over the shooting fests.

I remember the domino theory too, but the slippery slope argument is not without merit.

Says who, Brady or RCMP? Brady says the same about Mexico, but that is pretty doubtful given the number of machine guns the cartels have. Not that Canada has the same problem as Mexico.

[hack89]

11. How much to register to vote?

if we have to pay for our civil rights we might as well raise some serious money.

[safeinOhio]

12. No charge for long guns.

The right to bear arms is the only right that comes with a prefatory clause, that is why it is different than all the rights that don't have one.

[gejohnston]

14. how would you set this infrastructure up?

With NFA guns in the 1930s, it was easy because there were very few if any privately owned machine guns. DMVs were created with very few cars. Would would it be a simple online registration like RCMP does, or some Kafkaesque bullshit like DC and NYC?
What are the tangible benefits exactly?
How does having a well equipped militia scream out gun registration?

[hack89]

17. But every right in the BOR is an individual right. That is why it is the same as all the others. nt

[Spoonman]

16. No problem

We will also require the registration (and charge $10) of any device that is capable of expressing a political opinion in written form.
Every computer, blackberry, I-phone, and even pens and pencils.

What's good for one right should be good for all.

[melm00se]

18. I am going to ask a simple question

(with no disparagement meant to you):

Have you ever sold a gun?

I have (both long and hand guns) and the process that I (and the others from whom I have purchased) follow:

Ask to see driver's license and write down d/l #, name, address etc on the bill of sale
See their NC CCW permit and/or pistol purchase permit (I DO NOT sell to folks who don't have one - can't get one if you can't pass an NICS check)
Sign 2 bills of sale
I keep a copy, they keep a copy
File copy away (i have some that are almost 20 years old)

that way, if LEOs come looking for gun serial # XXXXXXXXX as it was recovered in a crime, I can provide them with documentation that it went "that-a-way" and lead them on to the next owner.

my BOS looks like this:

Bill of Sale for a Firearm

Seller: _________________________________
Street: _________________________________
City: ___________________________ State ___________ Zip ________________
Drivers License Number: ______ ____ CHP/Permit Number_________________

Purchaser: _____________________________________
Street: ________________________________________
City: __________________________ State ___________ Zip _____________
Drivers License Number: __________ CHP/Permit Number_________________

Type of Firearm: Pistol Rifle Shotgun Black Powder
Manufacturer or Importer: ________________________________ Model: _________
Action Type: Revolver Semi-auto Lever Pump Bolt Action Single Shot
Caliber/Gauge: _______________________
Serial Number: __________________________________
Barrel Length: ________ Finish: Blue Stainless Parkerized Duracoat Polymer Nickel Duo-Tones
Sale Price $_____________________________ If A Trade Value of Trade $ _____________

By my signature below, I certify that under penalty of perjury that I am not under any legal disability from purchasing or possessing a firearm under federal, state, or local law. I agree to hold seller his heirs and assigns harmless from any actions resulting from my use, possession, improper or unsafe storage or sale of this firearm. Further should I come under disability from possession of a firearm I agree to surrender this firearm to the proper authorities or return it to the seller and assign title to him. I am not acting as an agent for any person, business or agency other than myself for the purpose of this purchase and it is solely for my own use and possession and not for resale, trade, or gift. Seller warrants that this firearm is from his private collection and was not purchased originally for the purpose of resale and he is not a dealer in firearms or weapons and warrants that to the best of his knowledge and belief he purchased the firearm legally. At a later date should the firearm be declared unlawful, illegal to possess or in violation of any local, state or federal law, purchaser his or her heirs and assigns agree to hold seller harmless and without fault or recourse. Seller further states that he is not an expert in firearms and does not guarantee the firearm is safe for use. This is a bill of sale only and does not give the purchaser the right to carry or possess a firearm in violation of any local, state, or federal law. This written bill of sale takes precedence over any oral statements by either seller or purchaser.

Seller Signature________________________________________ Date____/____/_______


Purchaser Signature_______________________________________ Date____/_____/________

[madmom]

20. Why do you assume that just because someone owns a gun they belong to the nra?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. Why do you think it is a one time fee?

Consider what they do in Wash DC?

[armueller2001]

28. Methinks registration is not the best idea

"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal."
-- Janet Reno, US Attorney General

[Atypical Liberal]

27. Registration gives the government a list of firearm owners.

If the intent of the second amendment is to serve as a bulwark against government oppression, giving the government a list of firearm owners undermines this intent.

[spin]

30. Yup. And when the government decided to confiscate all handguns ...

the job would be much easier.

If that happened a grandmother who once legally carried a handgun would have turned it into the police and would be at the mercy of her attackers.

[JohnnyRingo]

2. I ask my friends who carry...

that if someone puts a gun in their face to please keep their hands where the nervous gunman can see them and give him what he wants and hope he goes away. The last thing I want them to do is go for their gun while a desperate criminal has his finger on the trigger.

Of course they laugh me off as a liberal sissy, but I know they've never been in that situation, and because of past personal experience, I fully expect them to comply if the time ever comes. Most don't know how big that hole in the barrel is until they see it quivering in front of them and realize a twitch of a nervous index finger can end it all in a heartbeat. It's true that most victims are lucky to offer anything beyond a good description of the gun after a robbery.

Of course there are times when a criminal slips up and allows a victim to produce a weapon, but the response better be accurate because return fire is all but guaranteed. 25% of normal accuracy is typical under such duress unless the shooter is on shore leave from Seal Team Six. That means two hits from a magazine... if the shooter is lucky.

People who carry a personal firearm also carry with them a huge legal and personal responsibility with dire consequences for their actions. I love my Colts, but I seldom go anywhere I feel I have to carry one. (although I own an old abandoned house in the country that suffers break-ins, and I always take a .380 there so I'm not alone.)

[jeepnstein]

19. Why JohnnyRingo...

Aww, nevermind, I just love that line from the movie.

I have been taught how to deal with the old gun in the face scenario. My instructor started the class with these words "Since you're probably going to die anyway this is your best bet." You're right, you want the assailant to see your hands and you start the move with them in a "surrender" position but not fully extended over you head. Based on my experience with a training pistol I have a 50/50 chance of surviving it, depending almost entirely on the shooter.

And your comment on the end of the barrel reminds me of an encounter I had with a young man one night. We got a call that a subject was threatening suicide and said he'd kill any police officer who tried to stop him. Naturally, they sent me on that call. I get to the house in question to discover the suspect had left in his truck. While I'm getting some information from his wife, he pulls up the driveway in his truck. By this time another officer had arrived on the scene. I approached his vehicle with my weapon drawn and commenced to getting him out of the truck and on the ground. He was incredibly cooperative except he seemed kind of stuck on just staring at me and wouldn't turn around and get prone. It was at that point I noticed that he had wet his pants. After getting him into custody and talking to him for a minute or two I got his side of the story. He and his wife were arguing, he decided to leave rather than escalate, and she decided to screw him over royally by calling us. He only came back home because he heard we were looking for him. Then he asked me "What on Earth kind of cannon are you carrying? That was the biggest gun I've ever seen in my life. Were you really going to shoot me?" All he could see in his tunnel vision was the business end of that .45. He had frozen up and wasn't able to process any of my verbal commands, to the point that he lost control of his bladder. I'm very grateful neither of us were in a hurry to get anything done that night because it would have resulted in him being dead.

[AH1Apache]

24. I loved that also

(Doc Holliday)Why Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave.
Classsic.

[JohnnyRingo]

26. It's probably true if a gunman draws on an officer, he'll likely shoot, but...

in a robbery all the criminal usually wants is your money, and the gun is merely a tool to obtain that cash. They naturally want the robbery to go quietly and quickly without firing a shot that will attract attention and cause them to flee before they meet their ultimate goal.

Since such robbers are often desparate addicts, what the victim does while that handgun is trained on them is the difference between surviving the encounter and becoming a statistic. People who think they can outdraw someone who already has the advantage watches too many Hollywood movies. Anything other than an outright kill shot will result in repeated return fire before he goes down.

I'm not an anti-gun advocate, I'm an anti-victim advocate, and I unfortunately have friends who think a two day safety course and an Ohio CCW permit qualifies them as a Mel Gibson stunt double. Since they've never looked down the wrong end of a 9mm before, I'm confident they'll actually take my advice to give the robber whatever he wants if the situation ever arises. As it is, these would-be natural born killers live a dangerous life and death fantasy where they rid society of those who would do us harm. Maybe we'll someday call it The Zimmerman Syndrome.

The OP is an interesting story however. It's always good to hear one where the bad guy loses so miserably, but I'd think most grannies would be better off throwing the purse and running the other way.

[jeepnstein]

29. The trick I learned doesn't involve going for my gun.

Your point is very valid. Once someone has the upper hand, they have the upper hand. You can just fork it over and trust in their better nature not to shoot you anyway or go to plan B. Most folks, even criminals, really aren't into killing people so trusting their better nature isn't exactly a suckers bet but you have to realize you're just gambling at that point any way you go.

I have a buddy who is a CCW instructor. He's also a former Army Ranger who did his time in Somalia. He always waits for someone to joke about killing someone and then shuts down the class to talk about what it is like to actually take another human's life. His story is breath taking.

[HALO141]

32. A criminal's "better nature."

I don't believe there is such a thing.

[JohnnyRingo]

33. Great point

Despite the wonders of special effects, and I don't know why, but movie blood looks much different than the real thing. Watching the greatest Oscar winner take his last breath on screen is not the same as hearing a real death rattle.

Wannabe sidewalk commandos are often wishing for something they may regret. Only a true psycho longs for the day he can finally punch a bullet hole through someone.

[spin]

31. No one is saying that it is absolutely necessary to use your carry gun ...

if someone who walks up to you and demands your money.

Obviously if you feel that is all he wants, the wisest thing is simply to give him your wallet. You can always replace your money, credit cards and ID. You can't always replace your health and you can't bring yourself back to life from the grave.

However there are times where it is obvious that the mugger intends to hurt you even if you comply with his demands. Or maybe after you do he decides to attempt to kill or hurt you. In such cases you have nothing to lose by trying to defend yourself. You may or not win but at least you have a chance.

The incident mentioned in the OP was one such example. The mugger was shooting at the grandmother.

There are times when handing over your wallet is the best choice. Sometimes throwing your purse or wallet and running is a good idea. Pepper spray can be an excellent deterrent. Perhaps if you have martial arts experience, you can disarm an attacker at close range, disable him with a kick to his knee cap and then either run or take him to the ground and hold him for the police. Much depends on the situation and there are a lot of variables to consider. Still it is nice to have a number of options for how you respond.

[ileus]

3. To bad she wasn't shot...then this could be a ban guns story.

[shadowrider]

4. Dude, she should have used her natural fighting skills to get rid of the bad guys

but she used a gun instead. In light of her using a gun to defend herself, this'll be a "ban guns" story shortly..

Waiting...3....2.....1

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

8. Zero points awarded for a guns as a solution to guns. Obviously she's a coward.

According to some of our expert gungeoneers, you don't need guns to protect yourself - only natural fighting skills. Another case of an insecure rude toter overcompensating for a small penis. This old lady is lucky one of the criminals didn't put their gun down and then take her gun and use it on her.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

22. Shares, is that you?

[Remmah2]

23. Secondary Link

http://www.macon.com/2012/04/23/2000577/i-carry-a-gun-all-the-time-says.html