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Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
Thu May 10, 2012, 12:09 PM May 2012

How to buy a silencer (quick take: it's a pain and takes way too long)

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/05/foghorn/ask-foghorn-how-to-buy-a-silencer/

How difficult is it to get one of these stamps? I don’t know why I always thought it was damn near impossible but I am seeing people with them all over the place. One a scale of 1 – 10 how difficult is it to get a can? And do you need a stamp for every one you buy or just one stamp saying you can buy silencers?

It’s not difficult, just annoying and time consuming. Grab a cup of coffee, because this is going to be a long one…

(rest of article at link)
65 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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How to buy a silencer (quick take: it's a pain and takes way too long) (Original Post) Johnny Rico May 2012 OP
Now imagine the effect if we applied the same procurement rules to vehicle mufflers. PavePusher May 2012 #1
The NFA Examiners are under-staffed. jeepnstein May 2012 #2
I bought a Meiko May 2012 #3
I have a friend that's been waiting since November. ileus May 2012 #4
Mine took 8 months. Johnny Rico May 2012 #5
In GC/RKBA, This Is What Passes For A "Public Service Announcement." (n/t) Paladin May 2012 #6
They need them for varmint hunting with Mitt... ellisonz May 2012 #7
Varmint hunting would be a highly appropriate application for a suppressor, don't petronius May 2012 #8
... ellisonz May 2012 #10
Jokes and funny clips to the side, suppressors cut down noise pollution and petronius May 2012 #12
They also allow you to shoot somone down in the street and not alert the whole block. ellisonz May 2012 #13
The controls are a solution without a problem Glaug-Eldare May 2012 #16
"Is violent crime using suppressors an issue?" DanTex May 2012 #27
are crimes with silencers an issue in France? gejohnston May 2012 #32
Or, the more likely explanation - suppressors are not as concealable pneutin May 2012 #64
I didn't say I don't understand, I said it's not substantial petronius May 2012 #17
Not a compelling argument... ellisonz May 2012 #19
what about countries where silencers are not regulated at all? gejohnston May 2012 #24
If the list of possible cases where the use of a silencer would enhance the crime in question Johnny Rico May 2012 #25
Using that logic, you can ban absolutely anything Glaug-Eldare May 2012 #30
Gunners always gotta change the subject. n/t ellisonz May 2012 #45
Pointing out the error in your thinking ManiacJoe May 2012 #52
Congratulations! You've managed to slink away without use of a cartoon this time... petronius May 2012 #31
I'm still here my pro-gun madness friend. n/t ellisonz May 2012 #46
Might as well continue the argument, then: I assert that it's unsound to petronius May 2012 #53
You've apparently never actually heard one in operation in real life, have you? PavePusher May 2012 #35
I don't spend my time hanging out with a bunch of gun nuts. ellisonz May 2012 #47
Translation: You don't know what the hell you're talking about. PavePusher May 2012 #54
In other words, you have no experience with the subject at hand. Johnny Rico May 2012 #56
Hey, why don't you just make up some more bullshit huh? AtheistCrusader May 2012 #65
I infer that you have a problem with the average Joe having a silencer. Could you provide Johnny Rico May 2012 #9
The bloodbath is probably coming, any day now Glaug-Eldare May 2012 #11
Ass-backward logic. ellisonz May 2012 #14
Not particularly hard to manufacture Glaug-Eldare May 2012 #15
Yay survivalists! ellisonz May 2012 #20
You don't need to be a survivalist to manufacture a good suppressor Glaug-Eldare May 2012 #34
Welcome to the Econo-Can ileus May 2012 #39
Apparently the Econo-can is a scam Glaug-Eldare May 2012 #42
Extrapolate from 0 to infinity in no time at all and even less evidence, eh? PavePusher May 2012 #37
They're not hard to get, just time-consuming with annoying paperwork. Johnny Rico May 2012 #18
Good. ellisonz May 2012 #21
There are something on the order of a quarter million legally owned silencers in this country. Johnny Rico May 2012 #22
Common sense. ellisonz May 2012 #23
Norway and France have no problem gejohnston May 2012 #26
Norway and France don't have the gun madness we have. n/t ellisonz May 2012 #44
So people don't go out shooting neighbors with their silent pistols? mvccd1000 May 2012 #49
what is gun madness? gejohnston May 2012 #50
I know someone has lost the argument when all they can say is, "Well it's just commen sense!" Johnny Rico May 2012 #28
Especially if they spell it "commen"! DanTex May 2012 #29
Wow...a spelling flame! That destroys every argument I've ever made! Johnny Rico May 2012 #33
Your movement to ban car mufflers on the same grounds.... PavePusher May 2012 #38
ROFL mvccd1000 May 2012 #43
Sounds like a follower of Sergeant Colon, to me: friendly_iconoclast May 2012 #63
Do you really think it would be harmed? NewMoonTherian May 2012 #59
As someone once said: "Incidents happen, that doesn't mean it's predominant." friendly_iconoclast May 2012 #62
Don't you know suppressors kill people. ileus May 2012 #40
Just found this... Johnny Rico May 2012 #41
Translation: Guilty until proven innocent. PavePusher May 2012 #36
Bold Statement #23452 ellisonz May 2012 #48
So, that IS what you were saying. PavePusher May 2012 #55
Yeah. Callisto32 May 2012 #58
The ad links appearing in this thread are exceptionally amusing slackmaster May 2012 #51
adbot Meiko May 2012 #57
Silent but deadly! Remmah2 May 2012 #61
We need to ban physics. Remmah2 May 2012 #60
 

PavePusher

(15,374 posts)
1. Now imagine the effect if we applied the same procurement rules to vehicle mufflers.
Thu May 10, 2012, 12:19 PM
May 2012

But it's O.K. for everyone to drive around in silent murder machines, as long as they aren't guns, amIrite?

jeepnstein

(2,631 posts)
2. The NFA Examiners are under-staffed.
Thu May 10, 2012, 01:03 PM
May 2012

There are just a handful of them and they have to check each and every bit of paperwork that is submitted to them. Just like it's 1938 all over again. Oh, and don't get me started on the tax stamp because that's one of my pet peeves. The paperwork without the tax would be bad enough but the tax is nothing but a back door attempt at a ban.

I look for it to get much worse if, Heaven forbid, a Republican gets into office. Mittens is no friend of the 2nd Amendment.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
4. I have a friend that's been waiting since November.
Thu May 10, 2012, 01:06 PM
May 2012

For a little baby 22 muffler.

He has since acquired 3 22's with threaded barrels waiting their turn as quiet goodness.


One of these days it'll show up....


petronius

(26,602 posts)
8. Varmint hunting would be a highly appropriate application for a suppressor, don't
Sat May 12, 2012, 11:15 AM
May 2012

you think? Given that it often occurs (by necessity) around livestock, homes, urban areas, or other places where reducing noise to avoid disturbing neighbors would be of value...

petronius

(26,602 posts)
12. Jokes and funny clips to the side, suppressors cut down noise pollution and
Sat May 12, 2012, 01:30 PM
May 2012

afford another layer of hearing protection to the shooter. There isn't any substantial reason for them to be as difficult (or impossible) to obtain as they currently are...

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
13. They also allow you to shoot somone down in the street and not alert the whole block.
Sat May 12, 2012, 01:34 PM
May 2012

What don't you understand about the reasoning behind such restrictions?

Glaug-Eldare

(1,089 posts)
16. The controls are a solution without a problem
Sat May 12, 2012, 01:42 PM
May 2012

Is violent crime using suppressors an issue? At all? Even by a tiny fraction of the people who own them? Are homemade suppressors being used anywhere but the local multiplex?

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
27. "Is violent crime using suppressors an issue?"
Sat May 12, 2012, 02:32 PM
May 2012

Did it occur to you that maybe the reason that violent crime using suppressors isn't a big issue is because they are so tightly controlled. You know, the same reason that violent crime with surface-to-air missiles isn't a big issue. Or the reason that violent crime with handguns isn't a big issue in the UK.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
32. are crimes with silencers an issue in France?
Sat May 12, 2012, 02:46 PM
May 2012

or New Zealand? They are not controlled at all.
ever price surface-to-air missiles? That is why such comparisons are absurd.
According to our resident retired Brit cop, it is more cultural than law.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=422257&mesg_id=422685

pneutin

(98 posts)
64. Or, the more likely explanation - suppressors are not as concealable
Tue May 15, 2012, 02:09 AM
May 2012

Also the same reason you don't see rifles used in violent crime a lot -- they're just not easy to conceal. A suppressor on a handgun takes away the only useful aspect of a handgun that a criminal values.

petronius

(26,602 posts)
17. I didn't say I don't understand, I said it's not substantial
Sat May 12, 2012, 01:52 PM
May 2012

Suppressors don't erase gunshot noise, they reduce it. Noise reduction in any context has a wide range of benefits to the person making the noise and and to others in the area. Allowing suppressors improves comfort and safety for the shooter and the community.

Criminals shoot people in the street apparently quite happily without suppressors. I'm highly skeptical that many if any murders have been prevented or solved due to the absence of a suppressor. The reasoning that some small number of criminals may hypothetically be emboldened to commit a surreptitious assassination, that they otherwise wouldn't, by the availability of a suppressor pales into insignificance beside the legitimate and appropriate uses of the devices...

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
19. Not a compelling argument...
Sat May 12, 2012, 02:19 PM
May 2012

"The reasoning that some small number of criminals may hypothetically be emboldened to commit a surreptitious assassination" - If that's the only thing you can think of, the list of possible cases where the use of a silencer would enhance would take more time to list than the time I have ta the moment.

You're wrong.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
24. what about countries where silencers are not regulated at all?
Sat May 12, 2012, 02:28 PM
May 2012

Like France, Finland, Norway, and New Zealand? In the first two, their use is encouraged if not required.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-silencer-in-under-5-minutes/

If this is in the US, the soda may require a tax stamp and registration under NFA.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
25. If the list of possible cases where the use of a silencer would enhance the crime in question
Sat May 12, 2012, 02:29 PM
May 2012

would take such a lengthy amount of time, surely you can document the actual crime wave of illegal use of silencers...can't you?

You're wrong.
Sorry, but it takes a bit more documentation than that!

Glaug-Eldare

(1,089 posts)
30. Using that logic, you can ban absolutely anything
Sat May 12, 2012, 02:42 PM
May 2012

Glass bottles could hypothetically be broken and used to kill. Regulate the possession of glass bottles.

Metal cans have sharp edges when cut, and could hypothetically be used to kill. Regulate the possession of metal cans.

Rope could hypothetically be used to strangle, kidnap, or kill. Regulate the possession of rope.

Pipes could hypothetically be used as clubs to kill. Regulate the possession of pipe.

Matches may hypothetically be used in arson, killing many victims at once. Regulate the possession of matches.

Many rocks are heavy and could hypothetically kill if thrown. Regulate the possession of rocks.

A bathtub could hypothetically be used to drown and kill. Regulate the possession of bathtubs.

Sneakers muffle the sound of escaping murderers. Regulate the possession of sneakers.

And so on, and so forth

petronius

(26,602 posts)
31. Congratulations! You've managed to slink away without use of a cartoon this time...
Sat May 12, 2012, 02:44 PM
May 2012


But of course you know I'm right, so what else can you do?

(Did my use of "assassination" confuse you, by the way? My comment clearly referred to the broad category of murder without alerting the neighborhood, so I'm not sure how long your imaginary list could really be.)

petronius

(26,602 posts)
53. Might as well continue the argument, then: I assert that it's unsound to
Sun May 13, 2012, 03:55 PM
May 2012

believe that current restrictions on suppressors provide a public safety benefit (that they deter secretive murders). If that were the case, there would need to be some subset of murders that either did not occur or were solved due to the non-availability of a suppressor. But there's nothing to really support that notion: in how many cases is the noise actually an issue? It does not appear that the original regulations were based on any measurable problem, and where suppressors are legal there doesn't appear to be any substantial criminal usage.

Murderers do try to be stealthy at times, making attempts to muffle noise, and they still get caught. I'm sure if suppressors were cheaper they might be used occasionally by premeditating murderers, but it in no way follows that more crimes would be attempted or fewer solved. It does not seem, from my casual observation, that many murderers are brought to justice solely because some bystander heard the gun go off.

Further, it's a mistake to think that suppressors erase gunshot noise - there's still a sound, and people nearby will hear it. So the idea that killers will be able to casually off someone on a street corner or in the mall and stroll away is fantasy. Some of the sentiment against suppressors seems based on Hollywood versions (that whisper-like "phhhtt!&quot as well as assumptions that suppressors have no legitimate uses and an association with mobsters and hitmen.

Some minor ancillary points against the 'criminal use' argument are that suppressors make handguns less concealable (a detriment to criminals) and the reduced energy makes guns a bit less dangerous.

So all in all, I don't think there's a legitimate case that making suppressors as difficult or expensive to obtain as they are now is a reasonable policy position, particularly when weighed against the real benefits provided by their use. But I'm willing to compromise - there's no reason not to keep the sentencing enhancement, and maybe even add a requirement that it be stamped on the item, like cigarette warnings (E.g., "Use or possession of this device during a crime will result in an automatic 30 year sentence&quot . It also seems that the benefits of suppressors are reduced at the smaller calibers, so perhaps a phasing out of the restrictions starting with rifles and larger calibers would be appropriate, and see if problems arise...

 

PavePusher

(15,374 posts)
35. You've apparently never actually heard one in operation in real life, have you?
Sat May 12, 2012, 04:02 PM
May 2012

If you live in an area that has "blocks", everyone will still probably know someone is shooting.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
65. Hey, why don't you just make up some more bullshit huh?
Thu May 17, 2012, 10:53 AM
May 2012

Because what you just said is completely untrue, and you would know better if you knew anything at all about the subject.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
9. I infer that you have a problem with the average Joe having a silencer. Could you provide
Sat May 12, 2012, 11:52 AM
May 2012

evidence of a wave of silencer-related gun crimes?

Take your time. I'll wait (and wait, and wait...).

Glaug-Eldare

(1,089 posts)
11. The bloodbath is probably coming, any day now
Sat May 12, 2012, 12:39 PM
May 2012

Cause you know, they, uh, might start shooting people today. You never know!

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
14. Ass-backward logic.
Sat May 12, 2012, 01:36 PM
May 2012

Maybe we don't see them used in crimes more often because they are hard to get!

Glaug-Eldare

(1,089 posts)
15. Not particularly hard to manufacture
Sat May 12, 2012, 01:39 PM
May 2012

Last edited Sat May 12, 2012, 02:55 PM - Edit history (1)

All you need is a gun with a threaded barrel, and you don't need any special papers for that.

Glaug-Eldare

(1,089 posts)
34. You don't need to be a survivalist to manufacture a good suppressor
Sat May 12, 2012, 02:50 PM
May 2012

You only need a little bit of ingenuity, and access to a few unregulated tools and materials. That, or access to somebody who has those things. Now you've got me thinking of what kind of design I could make with the fewest tools..

Glaug-Eldare

(1,089 posts)
42. Apparently the Econo-can is a scam
Sat May 12, 2012, 06:36 PM
May 2012

The oil filter is registered with the adapter, and must be returned to the manufacturer for repair after only a few shots. Buyer beware...

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
18. They're not hard to get, just time-consuming with annoying paperwork.
Sat May 12, 2012, 01:57 PM
May 2012

From 2008 to 2010, 57,000 silencers were sold.

http://www.floridashootersnetwork.com/silencers-sold-per-state-form-t93122.html

They're getting more and more popular. It's now legal to hunt with silencers in over a dozen states.

Is there any reason why the process of acquiring such tools shouldn't be streamlined and made less expensive?

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
22. There are something on the order of a quarter million legally owned silencers in this country.
Sat May 12, 2012, 02:23 PM
May 2012

I own one myself.

Please document that legally owned silencers "undermine public safety".

Still waiting...

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
23. Common sense.
Sat May 12, 2012, 02:26 PM
May 2012

Do you really think public safety would be served by having 10 million in public hands?

Nuts.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
26. Norway and France have no problem
Sat May 12, 2012, 02:31 PM
May 2012

France requires them at some ranges. Finnish hunting regulations require them in some areas. Oh yeah, they don't silence like in the movies. A 9mm will sound more like a nail gun.

Oh yeah, "common sense" is not knowledge and often based on watching too much TV and listening to too many old wives tales.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
50. what is gun madness?
Sun May 13, 2012, 10:32 AM
May 2012

Norway's gun ownership rate is about the same as ours. They just don't have drug gangs and drug madness like we do.

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
28. I know someone has lost the argument when all they can say is, "Well it's just commen sense!"
Sat May 12, 2012, 02:33 PM
May 2012
Do you really think public safety would be served by having 10 million in public hands?

There are already a quarter million in public hands, and you haven't documented a single instance of a crime being committed with one, let alone showing that they're a public menace.

Nuts

How can I possibly refute such a brilliant, well-reasoned argument?



DanTex

(20,709 posts)
29. Especially if they spell it "commen"!
Sat May 12, 2012, 02:39 PM
May 2012

Or, it could mean that what you are saying is, in fact, nuts...

 

Johnny Rico

(1,438 posts)
33. Wow...a spelling flame! That destroys every argument I've ever made!
Sat May 12, 2012, 02:46 PM
May 2012

The fact that I accidentally misspelled a single word out of the tens of thousands that I've typed on this forum must mean that my arguments are inherently invalid!

Or, it could mean that what you are saying is, in fact, nuts...

If that's the case, perhaps you can document a wave of silencer-related crime washing over our fair country.

No?

 

PavePusher

(15,374 posts)
38. Your movement to ban car mufflers on the same grounds....
Sat May 12, 2012, 04:15 PM
May 2012

will be along any second now, right?

"It stands to reason" is not evidence or a winning debate tactic. Good luck with that tom-foolery.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
63. Sounds like a follower of Sergeant Colon, to me:
Mon May 14, 2012, 02:19 PM
May 2012
Sergeant Colon had had a broad education. He'd been to the School of My Dad Always Said, the College of It Stands To Reason, and was now a post-graduate student of the University of What Some Bloke In The Pub Told Me.


Terry Pratchett, Jingo

(Thanks to DUer benEzra for findining that one...)

NewMoonTherian

(883 posts)
59. Do you really think it would be harmed?
Mon May 14, 2012, 09:54 AM
May 2012

Do you have any evidence to back you up? About as much as pro-lifers and anti-gay marriage advocates?

Any law that is not demonstrably beneficial is harmful, and needs to be repealed.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
48. Bold Statement #23452
Sun May 13, 2012, 07:27 AM
May 2012

One day PavePusher will claim the right to build and operate his own home nuclear reactor claiming "you're all just saying I'm guilty until proven innocent." for libertarian bullshit

 

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)
51. The ad links appearing in this thread are exceptionally amusing
Sun May 13, 2012, 12:13 PM
May 2012

Everything from silencers for pneumatic tools to "Dog Silencer Pro."

 

Remmah2

(3,291 posts)
60. We need to ban physics.
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:14 AM
May 2012

Nothing more than an exercise in sound wave constructive interference.

Some people should have their lips threaded so they can be inserted.

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