Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumHow to buy a silencer (quick take: it's a pain and takes way too long)
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/05/foghorn/ask-foghorn-how-to-buy-a-silencer/How difficult is it to get one of these stamps? I dont know why I always thought it was damn near impossible but I am seeing people with them all over the place. One a scale of 1 10 how difficult is it to get a can? And do you need a stamp for every one you buy or just one stamp saying you can buy silencers?
Its not difficult, just annoying and time consuming. Grab a cup of coffee, because this is going to be a long one
(rest of article at link)
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)But it's O.K. for everyone to drive around in silent murder machines, as long as they aren't guns, amIrite?
jeepnstein
(2,631 posts)There are just a handful of them and they have to check each and every bit of paperwork that is submitted to them. Just like it's 1938 all over again. Oh, and don't get me started on the tax stamp because that's one of my pet peeves. The paperwork without the tax would be bad enough but the tax is nothing but a back door attempt at a ban.
I look for it to get much worse if, Heaven forbid, a Republican gets into office. Mittens is no friend of the 2nd Amendment.
Meiko
(1,076 posts)class III weapon and a silencer at the same time, oh the humanities.
ileus
(15,396 posts)For a little baby 22 muffler.
He has since acquired 3 22's with threaded barrels waiting their turn as quiet goodness.
One of these days it'll show up....
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)With any luck your friend will get his can in the next month or two.
Paladin
(28,254 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)petronius
(26,602 posts)you think? Given that it often occurs (by necessity) around livestock, homes, urban areas, or other places where reducing noise to avoid disturbing neighbors would be of value...
petronius
(26,602 posts)afford another layer of hearing protection to the shooter. There isn't any substantial reason for them to be as difficult (or impossible) to obtain as they currently are...
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)What don't you understand about the reasoning behind such restrictions?
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)Is violent crime using suppressors an issue? At all? Even by a tiny fraction of the people who own them? Are homemade suppressors being used anywhere but the local multiplex?
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Did it occur to you that maybe the reason that violent crime using suppressors isn't a big issue is because they are so tightly controlled. You know, the same reason that violent crime with surface-to-air missiles isn't a big issue. Or the reason that violent crime with handguns isn't a big issue in the UK.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)or New Zealand? They are not controlled at all.
ever price surface-to-air missiles? That is why such comparisons are absurd.
According to our resident retired Brit cop, it is more cultural than law.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=422257&mesg_id=422685
pneutin
(98 posts)Also the same reason you don't see rifles used in violent crime a lot -- they're just not easy to conceal. A suppressor on a handgun takes away the only useful aspect of a handgun that a criminal values.
petronius
(26,602 posts)Suppressors don't erase gunshot noise, they reduce it. Noise reduction in any context has a wide range of benefits to the person making the noise and and to others in the area. Allowing suppressors improves comfort and safety for the shooter and the community.
Criminals shoot people in the street apparently quite happily without suppressors. I'm highly skeptical that many if any murders have been prevented or solved due to the absence of a suppressor. The reasoning that some small number of criminals may hypothetically be emboldened to commit a surreptitious assassination, that they otherwise wouldn't, by the availability of a suppressor pales into insignificance beside the legitimate and appropriate uses of the devices...
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)"The reasoning that some small number of criminals may hypothetically be emboldened to commit a surreptitious assassination" - If that's the only thing you can think of, the list of possible cases where the use of a silencer would enhance would take more time to list than the time I have ta the moment.
You're wrong.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Like France, Finland, Norway, and New Zealand? In the first two, their use is encouraged if not required.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-silencer-in-under-5-minutes/
If this is in the US, the soda may require a tax stamp and registration under NFA.
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)would take such a lengthy amount of time, surely you can document the actual crime wave of illegal use of silencers...can't you?
You're wrong.
Sorry, but it takes a bit more documentation than that!
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)Glass bottles could hypothetically be broken and used to kill. Regulate the possession of glass bottles.
Metal cans have sharp edges when cut, and could hypothetically be used to kill. Regulate the possession of metal cans.
Rope could hypothetically be used to strangle, kidnap, or kill. Regulate the possession of rope.
Pipes could hypothetically be used as clubs to kill. Regulate the possession of pipe.
Matches may hypothetically be used in arson, killing many victims at once. Regulate the possession of matches.
Many rocks are heavy and could hypothetically kill if thrown. Regulate the possession of rocks.
A bathtub could hypothetically be used to drown and kill. Regulate the possession of bathtubs.
Sneakers muffle the sound of escaping murderers. Regulate the possession of sneakers.
And so on, and so forth
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)is not "changing the subject".
petronius
(26,602 posts)But of course you know I'm right, so what else can you do?
(Did my use of "assassination" confuse you, by the way? My comment clearly referred to the broad category of murder without alerting the neighborhood, so I'm not sure how long your imaginary list could really be.)
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)petronius
(26,602 posts)believe that current restrictions on suppressors provide a public safety benefit (that they deter secretive murders). If that were the case, there would need to be some subset of murders that either did not occur or were solved due to the non-availability of a suppressor. But there's nothing to really support that notion: in how many cases is the noise actually an issue? It does not appear that the original regulations were based on any measurable problem, and where suppressors are legal there doesn't appear to be any substantial criminal usage.
Murderers do try to be stealthy at times, making attempts to muffle noise, and they still get caught. I'm sure if suppressors were cheaper they might be used occasionally by premeditating murderers, but it in no way follows that more crimes would be attempted or fewer solved. It does not seem, from my casual observation, that many murderers are brought to justice solely because some bystander heard the gun go off.
Further, it's a mistake to think that suppressors erase gunshot noise - there's still a sound, and people nearby will hear it. So the idea that killers will be able to casually off someone on a street corner or in the mall and stroll away is fantasy. Some of the sentiment against suppressors seems based on Hollywood versions (that whisper-like "phhhtt!" as well as assumptions that suppressors have no legitimate uses and an association with mobsters and hitmen.
Some minor ancillary points against the 'criminal use' argument are that suppressors make handguns less concealable (a detriment to criminals) and the reduced energy makes guns a bit less dangerous.
So all in all, I don't think there's a legitimate case that making suppressors as difficult or expensive to obtain as they are now is a reasonable policy position, particularly when weighed against the real benefits provided by their use. But I'm willing to compromise - there's no reason not to keep the sentencing enhancement, and maybe even add a requirement that it be stamped on the item, like cigarette warnings (E.g., "Use or possession of this device during a crime will result in an automatic 30 year sentence" . It also seems that the benefits of suppressors are reduced at the smaller calibers, so perhaps a phasing out of the restrictions starting with rifles and larger calibers would be appropriate, and see if problems arise...
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)If you live in an area that has "blocks", everyone will still probably know someone is shooting.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Well, except for here...
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Go away.
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)Good to know!
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Because what you just said is completely untrue, and you would know better if you knew anything at all about the subject.
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)evidence of a wave of silencer-related gun crimes?
Take your time. I'll wait (and wait, and wait...).
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)Cause you know, they, uh, might start shooting people today. You never know!
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Maybe we don't see them used in crimes more often because they are hard to get!
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)Last edited Sat May 12, 2012, 02:55 PM - Edit history (1)
All you need is a gun with a threaded barrel, and you don't need any special papers for that.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)You only need a little bit of ingenuity, and access to a few unregulated tools and materials. That, or access to somebody who has those things. Now you've got me thinking of what kind of design I could make with the fewest tools..
ileus
(15,396 posts)What fun little toy this would be...
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)The oil filter is registered with the adapter, and must be returned to the manufacturer for repair after only a few shots. Buyer beware...
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)From 2008 to 2010, 57,000 silencers were sold.
http://www.floridashootersnetwork.com/silencers-sold-per-state-form-t93122.html
They're getting more and more popular. It's now legal to hunt with silencers in over a dozen states.
Is there any reason why the process of acquiring such tools shouldn't be streamlined and made less expensive?
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Why do you want to undermine public safety even further than the gunnerhood already does?
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)I own one myself.
Please document that legally owned silencers "undermine public safety".
Still waiting...
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Do you really think public safety would be served by having 10 million in public hands?
Nuts.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)France requires them at some ranges. Finnish hunting regulations require them in some areas. Oh yeah, they don't silence like in the movies. A 9mm will sound more like a nail gun.
Oh yeah, "common sense" is not knowledge and often based on watching too much TV and listening to too many old wives tales.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)mvccd1000
(1,534 posts)Who'da thunk it?
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Norway's gun ownership rate is about the same as ours. They just don't have drug gangs and drug madness like we do.
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)There are already a quarter million in public hands, and you haven't documented a single instance of a crime being committed with one, let alone showing that they're a public menace.
Nuts
How can I possibly refute such a brilliant, well-reasoned argument?
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Or, it could mean that what you are saying is, in fact, nuts...
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)The fact that I accidentally misspelled a single word out of the tens of thousands that I've typed on this forum must mean that my arguments are inherently invalid!
Or, it could mean that what you are saying is, in fact, nuts...
If that's the case, perhaps you can document a wave of silencer-related crime washing over our fair country.
No?
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)will be along any second now, right?
"It stands to reason" is not evidence or a winning debate tactic. Good luck with that tom-foolery.
Somebody actually gets their "common sense" from watching Alias or 24, it sounds like.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Terry Pratchett, Jingo
(Thanks to DUer benEzra for findining that one...)
NewMoonTherian
(883 posts)Do you have any evidence to back you up? About as much as pro-lifers and anti-gay marriage advocates?
Any law that is not demonstrably beneficial is harmful, and needs to be repealed.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)ileus
(15,396 posts)Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Nice.
, indeed.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)One day PavePusher will claim the right to build and operate his own home nuclear reactor claiming "you're all just saying I'm guilty until proven innocent." for libertarian bullshit
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Thanks for the confirmation.
Callisto32
(2,997 posts)Just leaving people to live in peace if they don't hurt anybody...
Fuck us, what assholes.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Everything from silencers for pneumatic tools to "Dog Silencer Pro."
never ceases to amuse.....
Remmah2
(3,291 posts)Nothing to do with the OP.
Remmah2
(3,291 posts)Nothing more than an exercise in sound wave constructive interference.
Some people should have their lips threaded so they can be inserted.