Ogden officer killed in firefight ‘doing exactly what he wanted to do’

[ellisonz]

Ogden police Officer Jared Francom, a 30-year-old father of two young girls, died early Thursday morning of his wounds from the shootout.

By Nate Carlisle, Cimaron Neugebauer, Christopher Smart, Bob Mims and Lindsay Whitehurst

The Salt Lake Tribune
First published Jan 05 2012 06:58AM
Updated 3 hours ago

Ogden • Police are investigating why a decorated Army veteran allegedly opened fire during a routine drug-related raid Wednesday night, killing one police officer and wounding five others in a shootout described as "total chaos."

------------

Nothing looked amiss shortly before 9 p.m. Wednesday as the 12-person Weber-Morgan Narcotics Strike Force team approached a red brick home at 3268 Jackson Ave. to serve a search warrant, said Ogden Interim Police Chief Wayne Tarwater. No one answered when they knocked on the door and identified themselves.

"There really was not a great deal that was unique, other than the outcome," said Strike Force Commander Darin Parke.

When they entered, 37-year-old Matthew David Stewart allegedly started shooting.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/entertainment/53237543-78/police-ogden-officers-officer.html.csp

Also:

Link eyed in fatal shootings of deputy, NH couple

Posted: Jan 08, 2012 8:18 AM PST Updated: Jan 09, 2012 12:04 PM PST
By Phil Benson
Posted by Steve Stout

ANTHEM, AZ (KPHO / AP) -

Authorities are investigating whether a sheriff's deputy shot to death while answering a burglary call and a New Hampshire couple found dead in their car in Arizona were killed by the same gunman.

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said 50-year-old William Coleman, of New River, died after exchanging gunfire with the burglary suspect outside Angel Pediatrics.

On Monday, Sheriff Arpaio released the identity of the burglary suspect as 30-year-old Drew Ryan Maras.

Coleman and the couple near the resort town of Sedona on Friday were all shot with a high-powered rifle. And the two crime scenes are connected by Interstate 17.

http://www.kpho.com/story/16471538/mcso-deputy-shot-in-anthem

Brings this years total to 4 law enforcement officers killed by hostile gunfire - 0 by any other cause: http://www.odmp.org/search/year

[krispos42]

1. If we had a sane drug policy, Francom would still be alive.

Overnight, all violence would drop, including by necessity violence committed with guns.,

[ellisonz]

3. I'm not so sure about that...

Plus, it really still doesn't excuse the fact that this guy decided to engage the police in a firefight. There is no justification, hypothetical or not, that under any circumstance, this is a response that doesn't represent failings in our gun control policy. This guy obviously had no respect for the law.

[pipoman]

17. I really believe it is too early and too little information to determine

"This guy obviously had no respect for the law.". Police descriptions of what happened are all you have. Police saying, "No one answered when they knocked on the door and identified themselves.", may not be as benign as it sounds. Picture 12 men sneaking up to a door at night, once at the door they "knock" by beating on the door while all 12 are yelling "Police..search warrant" simultaneously and at the tops of their lungs. Seconds later, without allowing time for any thought, they hit the door with a ram, crashing through. The confusion and "element of surprise" are intentional parts of these "raids". The results have been in the past, the resident shooting in self defense thinking they are being attacked. No, police tactics and attention to "element of surprise" have cost many police fatalities. Of coarse the police position is always, 'we knocked and identified ourselves yet this bad, bad person intentionally open fire on police', the reality may be somewhat different than the picture painted by this type of statement.

Couple that with someone who we trained to prevail in residential fire fights, who has lived months or years in fear and reacting violently to surprise attacks, because of his skill was awarded medals..a skill not so desirable on the streets of the US...I'll withhold judgment until the film of the actual raid is released.

[ellisonz]

31. I'll also await further judgment until all details are revealed.

[Atypical Liberal]

23. I'm very sure about that.

This no-knock warrant bullshit is becoming all too common. It's almost always drug related. Go Google Jose Guerena:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html

2-tour Iraq veteran gunned down in his home in front of his wife and one of his children, on suspicion of drugs. Nothing illegal was found in the home.

This is completely a failure of drug policy.

It's exactly like the damn "war on terror". There is no bogey man to start with, but it's a fantastic excuse to bulk up police budgets buying military gear and a fantastic opportunity to enhance the police powers of the state.

Using military raids on domestic dwellings to serve warrants on drug charges is asinine and it is just asking for someone to be killed. In Guerena's case he was preparing to defend his home with a rifle but the police got him first, shooting him 23 times out of some 60 rounds fired at him. In the case you cited the homeowner (another army veteran, by the way) got the drop on the police, killing one of them.

People have the constitutional right to keep and bear arms to defend their homes. When you send no-knock military raiding parties into such homes you are simply begging for someone to die.

This is fucking absurd for drug-related offenses. The shit shouldn't be illegal in the first place, but even if it is, why not just arrest the guy when he gets in his car to go to the grocery store?!?!?

I'll tell you why - because it's not nearly as cool to have Barney Fife arrest the guy in a traffic stop than it is to play army and smash into buildings dressed up like people out of the Counter Strike video game. It's also not nearly as beneficial to the department budget when you have to justify all the paramilitary hardware.

Frankly just about every time the police pull this shit I'm rooting for the homeowner. If a gang of thugs rushed his house he'd be given a medal for defending his home. But when the police do it suddenly he's a bad guy - even when it turns out the homeowner was doing nothing criminal. It's bullshit.

[MicaelS]

24. Amazing how many cop apologists come out of the woodwork

When guns are involved.

So 12 SWAT members on the "narcotics strike force" were sent to a house to serve a warrant for marijuana on a "routine drug-related raid"? And one cop was killed when they entered the home.

If this represent anything it represents a total failure on our War on Drugs, and is just another example of the militarization of Law Enforcement.

[Glassunion]

27. An epidemic of isolated incidents.

"Nothing looked amiss shortly before 9 p.m. Wednesday as the 12-person Weber-Morgan Narcotics Strike Force team approached a red brick home at 3268 Jackson Ave. to serve a search warrant"

Who considers a 12-member, heavily-armed paramilitary team approaching a house in the dark of night looking like "nothing amiss"?

How many innocents do these paramilitary raids kill every year?
-Don't go out to smoke on your porch, SWAT will shoot you in the head.
-Don't be old with a weak heart. Flash-bangs might induce a heart attack in the middle of the night.
-Don't live somewhere a confidential informant might lie and state that drugs are being sold from your home. SWAT will show up, kick in your door, and wildly pump 123 rounds into your apartment killing you.
-Don't get in front of a jumpy officer who's gun will go off when he is startled by a flash-bang.
-Don't be an 11 year old in a home that is free of drugs and weapons. That's a shootin' in the head.
-Don't be a deaf retired police officer cutting veggies in your kitchen. The cops will shoot you in the chest 5 times.
-etc...

How many times a year are non-violent offender's homes raided by paramilitary teams?
-Don't have fibromylagia or apnea. That's a SWAT body cavity search.
-Don't live in a nursing home. Someone "MIGHT" not hold a "caregiver card"... Might.
-Don't ever have polio. When the SWAT team is pointing 5 machine guns at your head and tells you to get out of bed, leg braces, and crutches are no excuse. That's a handcuffing to the bed.
-Don't run a hospital where Medicaid and Medicare records are retained. That's a 37 member SWAT team raid for a records search.
-Don't go to the doctor. As a patient you may be held at gunpoint for hours.
-Don't be a Tibetan monk on an overstayed visa. That's a SWAT raid.
-Don't ever get into a brawl with anyone. That's a SWAT raid to gather the cowboy hat, shirt and pack of cigs for evidence.
-Don't have children. When the SWAT raid nets little or no evidence, they will try to take you children away if you try to file a formal complaint or sue.
-Don't be black in north Texas and hang out with a dude named Coleman. In fact, don't not hang out with him either.
-etc...

How many times a year do they get the wrong house?
-Don't live at 74 Hidden Lane... it looks like 82 and SWAT may think you have something to hide on that lane.
-Don't live on a poorly lit street and have antiques. Oh and don't be in you own home partially dressed. Cause SWAT will break your shit while making you wait on the porch in your PJ's.
-Don't work for the Washington Post, be a senior officer in the State Department, or a retired police lieutenant from D.C.'s own police department. Your houses look like some other houses.
-Don't have a black storm door with a pickup out front. You house looks a lot like the other house with the black storm door and pickup out front.
-Don't take a shower if your a woman. SWAT teams will refuse to allow you to dress while they check Google Maps for "Bad Guys beggin' for a raidin'".
-SWAT is looking for a white mobile home with a white fence around it. Not a not white one that does not have a white fence.

[ellisonz]

30. I had a snarky comment...

...but it's better left unsaid. Don't presume I support this madness, but there's madness on both sides of the door in this case.

[ileus]

2. and people want to disarm the citizen...

How many common citizens have died in the same time.

It's time for LEO's and normal citizens to uparm themselves, bigger and better to meet the threat.

[rl6214]

4. Criminals doing criminal things, not the guns fault

Prayers for his family.

[Simo 1939_1940]

5. +1

The only thing criminals understand is equal or greater force than that which they direct at their innocent victims.

[ellisonz]

6. You think punishment should be the goal of our criminal justice system...

...rather than rehabilitation?

[rl6214]

7. Sometimes rehabilitation dosen't work AND

I've never heard of anyone staying out of prison because they fear being rehabilitated.

[ellisonz]

9. If more criminals actually feared prison...

...we would have a criminal justice system packed to the brim. I suppose you think the death penalty is a deterrent too.

[MicaelS]

14. You started a thread less than one day ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11727502

Talking about a steep drop in crime, which stated one of the causes was "fuller prisons", and now you want to complain about the self-same prison system.

[rl6214]

15. No actually I don't think the death penalty is a deterent

[ellisonz]

16. So then the threat of going to prison...

...is a deterrent because?

[rl6214]

25. Why do you not commit crimes such as embezzlement or buglary besides the fact it is

morally wrong? It would be really easy to commit a number of crimes but besides the fact that I was taught what is right and wrong, I don't want to spend the rest of my life behind bars.

[ellisonz]

28. So you're basically saying criminals are irrational...

[rl6214]

32. Well they certainly aren't rational

[ellisonz]

33. Often they think they will get away with the crime...

..and many do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_choice_theory_%28criminology%29

[rl6214]

34. You are 100% correct there

[ellisonz]

35. It's a miracle!

[rl6214]

36. Yes it is haleluia

[SteveW]

37. Prison can thwart crime. If the criminal is in the prison.

You left out one reason for prisons: Keeping thugs and violent crims locked up and not free to continue their mayhem.

A good place to start rehab is by phasing out imprisonment for such crimes as possession and use of small amounts of now-illegal drugs. Violent thugs who have a track record of violence should be locked up. For a long time.

[one-eyed fat man]

18. It may not be a deterrent

but it absolutely "cures" recidivism.

Grandpappy told my pappy
Back in my day, son
A man had to answer
For the wicked that he'd done
Take all the rope in Texas
Find a tall oak tree
Round up all of them bad boys
And hang 'em high in the street
For all the people to see

[Spoonman]

20. Willie for President! nt

[one-eyed fat man]

21. I'd vote for him! N/T

[ileus]

13. you of course meant to say most times...

Jail/prison = daycare and funtime these days.

[Simo 1939_1940]

8. As the oft-mentioned saying goes.........

"Play stupid games - win stupid prizes."

If a citizen is backed against a wall, he/she isn't in any position to chat with the perp about his eventual "rehabilitation".

Way to misinterpret the point, by the way........

[ellisonz]

10. So if you're being robbed at gun point...

...you should pull your gun and try to shoot him because letting yourself be robbed is more dangerous than pulling a gun?

Also:

Lou Williams' reputation can be disarming
December 27, 2011|BY BOB COONEY, [e-mail]

PORTLAND - While the start of an NBA basketball season is one that is filled with emotions for players, coaches and fans, sometimes reality rears its head and gives a whole new perspective as to what is important in life.

---------

While stopped in his car in Manayunk on Christmas Eve, Williams was approached by a man with a gun. The situation was deflated when the gunman recognized Williams and commended him for his work in the community. Williams said he treated the man to a meal at a local fast-food restaurant by giving him some money.

------

Williams said he was driving in his car when the man approached, knocked on the driver's window and had a gun drawn.

"There's crime everywhere," said Williams. "I was debating whether to pull off or help the guy. The gun was already out. He did all the talking and we came up with a solution before I could really say much. I treated him to McDonald's."

http://articles.philly.com/2011-12-27/sports/30561831_1_doug-collins-lou-williams-christmas-eve

Should Lou Williams have acted differently?

[ManiacJoe]

11. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

>So if you're being robbed at gun point... ...you should pull your gun and try to shoot
> him because letting yourself be robbed is more dangerous than pulling a gun?

Situational tactics are by definition situational. There is no global rule. This is why the "must retreat" laws are being repealed; sometimes retreating is a very bad option. (Sometimes it is a good one.) You cannot predict the results, nor the needed tactics.

> Should Lou Williams have acted differently?

Mr. Williams handled this one situation just fine. However, this one incident cannot be broadened into any rule or guideline.

[burf]

12. Happens all the time

Officers responded to Andy's Pantry, where they located the store clerk who stated that two men entered the store with their faces covered with bandanas, one pointing a handgun.

The clerk told police he fired a single shot at the suspects which caused them to run from the business.
http://www.digtriad.com/news/article/206949/1/Greensboro-Store-Clerk-Shoots-At-Robbery-Suspects

A NY store clerk was facing an armed robber. When the man tried to come behind the counter the clerk used a rifle to subdue the suspect and hold him at gunpoint until police arrived. The suspect is being charged with robbery, assault and criminal possession of a weapon.
http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/story/Clerk-thwarts-suspected-would-be-robber/uP8QCjC4J0a2At-I6TrGcw.cspx

VA Three Armed Men Try To Rob Bar, One is Shot, Killed by Customer
http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/chesapeake/Shots-fired-at-Chesapeake-bar

Many more at: http://gunssavelives.net/

There is lot more Defensive Gun Use than most people realize. My guess is no one got a happy meal out of the instances I cited though.

[Simo 1939_1940]

26. Whether or not you should try to protect yourself while being robbed

by pulling a gun depends entirely on the situation. It worked out for this guy:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34714389/ns/us_news-life//#.TwyPBpilAso

Nobody claims it will always work. It's simply better to have options than not. There's no guarantee that the young man robbing the group in this story wouldn't have tried to kill everyone to get rid of witnesses.

Edited to add: The robbery victim in this story was smart. He carried in such a way that when he went for his pistol it looked as though he was going for his wallet - hence taking the robber by complete surprise.

[Remmah2]

19. How do you rehab victims?

If I'm about to become a victim I want superior force on my side, rehab is for after the fact. It's hard to apoligize to a murder victim.

[Spoonman]

22. YES!

The world over continues to see a rise in recidivism rates as countries turn their penal system mentalities from punishment to rehabilitation.

Criminals don't fear being in prison anymore, as the prisons have become nothing more than state funded hotels and crime universities.

[ellisonz]

29. Our recidivism rate is 65% - Sweden's is 35%.

Having personally seen a relative go in and out of the prison system, I'd say the single biggest factors are stigmatization and lack of economic opportunity.

[ellisonz]

38. Thousands of uniformed officers attend funeral, burial of Utah policeman killed in gunbattle

By Associated Press, Updated: Wednesday, January 11, 4:23 PM

OGDEN, Utah — A Utah police officer killed in a gunbattle last week with a suspected pot grower was buried in a tearful ceremony Wednesday that included a 21-gun salute, the release of about a dozen white doves and a statewide broadcast of a police dispatcher’s final radio callout.

“Whiskey 12, Weber,” the dispatcher called three times, the radio cracking. “Whiskey 12, Agent Jared Francom may no longer be with us, but he will not be forgotten.”

The broadcast was heard at the Ogden City Cemetery, where it drew tears and audible sobs from family, friends and as many as 1,000 police officers. Afterward, uniformed officers streamed pasted Francom’s casket, some leaving behind their white gloves and patches from their respective agencies.

-------

Suspect Matthew David Stewart was cornered in a backyard shed before he was shot by police. When doctors clear him for release, the 37-year-old Army veteran will be immediately arrested on suspicion of aggravated murder, marijuana cultivation and eight counts of attempted aggravated murder, Weber County Attorney Dee W. Smith said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/thousands-expected-at-funeral-services-for-utah-police-officer-killed-in-gunbattle/2012/01/11/gIQAN5WDqP_story.html?wprss=rss_national

DA is going to go for the death penalty.