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ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:35 AM Dec 2012

So You Think You Know the Second Amendment?

December 18, 2012
Posted by Jeffrey Toobin

Does the Second Amendment prevent Congress from passing gun-control laws? The question, which is suddenly pressing, in light of the reaction to the school massacre in Newtown, is rooted in politics as much as law.

For more than a hundred years, the answer was clear, even if the words of the amendment itself were not. The text of the amendment is divided into two clauses and is, as a whole, ungrammatical: “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” The courts had found that the first part, the “militia clause,” trumped the second part, the “bear arms” clause. In other words, according to the Supreme Court, and the lower courts as well, the amendment conferred on state militias a right to bear arms—but did not give individuals a right to own or carry a weapon.

Enter the modern National Rifle Association. Before the nineteen-seventies, the N.R.A. had been devoted mostly to non-political issues, like gun safety. But a coup d’état at the group’s annual convention in 1977 brought a group of committed political conservatives to power—as part of the leading edge of the new, more rightward-leaning Republican Party. (Jill Lepore recounted this history in a recent piece for The New Yorker.) The new group pushed for a novel interpretation of the Second Amendment, one that gave individuals, not just militias, the right to bear arms. It was an uphill struggle. At first, their views were widely scorned. Chief Justice Warren E. Burger, who was no liberal, mocked the individual-rights theory of the amendment as “a fraud.”

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2012/12/jeffrey-toobin-second-amendment.html#ixzz2FTPxNw2w
15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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So You Think You Know the Second Amendment? (Original Post) ellisonz Dec 2012 OP
Not at all discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #1
what SCOTUS case or cases set the gejohnston Dec 2012 #2
I'm reminded of Taney's opinion in the Dred Scott case Glaug-Eldare Dec 2012 #3
Better than you, evidently tortoise1956 Dec 2012 #4
One more, then it's off to bed tortoise1956 Dec 2012 #5
2nd Amendment has THREE commas: lastlib Dec 2012 #6
"The right of the states to have ..." Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #7
You should upgrade... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #8
does 2.1 also contain the phrase: "...is the expression of..." cos I can't find it in 2A either Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #10
A line from a movie... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #11
see below for another fine example Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #14
That horse is dead. You can quit beating it. N/T GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #9
WELL REGULATED fightthegoodfightnow Dec 2012 #12
! Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #13
That's just...INCONCEIVABLE discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #15

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
2. what SCOTUS case or cases set the
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:54 AM
Dec 2012

"collective rights" as precedent? The only ones I can find are pre incorporation "states can refuse any right" decisions. Not even US v Miller doesn't.

Glaug-Eldare

(1,089 posts)
3. I'm reminded of Taney's opinion in the Dred Scott case
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:06 AM
Dec 2012

where he listed the rights which the Constitution was only supposed to guarantee for whites:

"For if they were so received, and entitled to the privileges and immunities of citizens, it would exempt them from the operation of the special laws and from the police regulations which they considered to be necessary for their own safety. It would give to persons of the negro race, who were recognized as citizens in any one State of the Union, the right to enter every other State whenever they pleased, singly or in companies, without pass or passport, and without obstruction, to sojourn there as long as they pleased, to go where they pleased at every hour of the day or night without molestation, unless they committed some violation of law for which a white man would be punished; and it would give them the full liberty of speech in public and in private upon all subjects upon which its own citizens might speak; to hold public meetings upon political affairs, and to keep and carry arms wherever they went. And all of this would be done in the face of the subject race of the same color, both free and slaves, and inevitably producing discontent and insubordination among them, and endangering the peace and safety of the State.

tortoise1956

(671 posts)
4. Better than you, evidently
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:40 AM
Dec 2012

I'll post this link once again. It's a paper written by Sanford Levinson, discussing the true meaning of the second amendment. In it, he clearly delineates why it is an individual right.

http://constitution.org/mil/embar2nd.htm

Anything else?

lastlib

(23,244 posts)
6. 2nd Amendment has THREE commas:
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:55 PM
Dec 2012

“A well regulated militia (comma) being necessary to the security of a free state (comma) the right of the people to keep and bear arms (comma) shall not be infringed.”

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

Structurally analyzed, the "well-regulated militia" phrase is the superior clause of the sentence. THAT is what "shall not be infringed." The other two clauses are subordinate--modifying or explaining the superior clause. So, to interpret:

"A well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state."
"A well-regulated militia is the expression of the right of the people to keep and bear arms."
"The right of the states to have a well-regulated militia shall not be infringed."

So, by the pure logic of the language, it is NOT protecting an individual's right to keep/bear arms.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
11. A line from a movie...
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 11:35 PM
Dec 2012

..."You guys think not getting caught in a lie is the same as telling the truth."

Today's English is all about "the expression of".

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
15. That's just...INCONCEIVABLE
Thu Dec 20, 2012, 06:37 PM
Dec 2012

I've been meaning to watch that again.

However... I do not mean to pry, but you don't by any chance happen to have six fingers on your right hand?

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