"ATF: Most guns at Mexican crime scenes traced to US"

[applegrove]

ATF: Most guns at Mexican crime scenes traced to US

by Diana Washington Valdez at the El Paso Times

http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_22265245/atf-most-guns-at-mexican-crime-scenes-traced?source=rss_viewed

"SNIP..................................................



More than 68 percent of the weapons recovered at Mexican crime scenes over a five-year period were traced to U.S. manufacturers or U.S. dealers who import firearms, according to statistics of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Between 2007 and 2011, Mexican law enforcement submitted 99,691requests to the ATF for tracing, and 68,161 of those firearms were determined to come from U.S. makers or were legally imported into the United States by federally licensed firearms dealers.

The ATF said it was unable to determine the source of the rest of the firearms because of missing information about the guns themselves, where they came from and how they got into Mexico.

Mexican drug cartels have waged brutal battles over turf in several areas of Mexico, including in Juárez, where firearms were used in most of estimated 11,000 homicides that police reported between 2007 and the end of November.



.................................................SNIP"

[AtheistCrusader]

1. Only a portion of the guns recovered.

Lots come from other sources, via other borders.

Still, registration would mostly plug this hole. We should do it. Time to extend the NFA registry down to semi-auto's.

[gejohnston]

3. they would have to modernize the system first

and have a lower transference tax. The NFA branch can't handle what they do have.

[pipoman]

5. and reopen the NFA registry

and re-write the NFA to make it impossible to close a NFA registry...and eliminate the $200 fee..and...naaa, on second thought I can't support any bill or legislator who would vote for a bill putting semi autos into the NFA.

[gejohnston]

6. AFAIK,

the machine gun registry is the only one that is closed. I can't support a bill like that either.

[AtheistCrusader]

8. I'm ok with some sort of fee. 200 seems arbitrarily high.

I really would like to see registration work, as it would cure a significant percentage of gun transfers to illegal sources. All but theft, smuggling, and homebrew, really.

[gejohnston]

2. many of those manufactured in the US

are M-16s and Barretts sold to the Mexican government and police forces before being diverted to the cartels, ones stolen from El Salvador and Honduran military armories and smuggled across Mexico's southern border, and Vietnam era left behinds that were smuggled into Mexico from Vietnam by the same people who bring them RPGs, grenades, light and medium machine guns.
http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20090708_mexico_economics_and_arms_trade
http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209-mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/bill-conroy/2011/04/us-backed-programs-supplying-firepower-mexico-s-soaring-murder-rate

On the other hand, there seems to be a trend of otherwise law abiding Mexicans buying black market guns to defend themselves from the cartels and their police lackys.
http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/145996427/mexican-community-takes-taboo-stance-on-guns

This young lady was murdered with a pistol that was traced to an ATF agent that lied on ATF 4473 and claimed he "sold it on the internet"
http://www.komonews.com/news/national/Mexican-beauty-queen-Maria-Susana-Flores-Gamez-killed-in-shootout-with-drug-traffickers-181001661.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57560107-10391739/pistol-purchased-by-atf-agent-found-at-alleged-cartel-crime-scene-in-mexico/

If I lied on a 4473 on a gun that landed up at a Mexican crime scene, my ass would be in federal prison. This asshole still has a six figure income and a badge. Where is the outrage among gun control advocates? Oh wait, he is LE and an ATF LE, so it must be OK.

Since I do not use drugs, so I don't fund or fuel any of the violence, why should I be held responsible for it? Bong owners need to own up for the carnage their money pays for, making them more responsible than most of us.

[pipoman]

4. False..as has been pointed out many times

More than 68 percent of the weapons recovered at Mexican crime scenes over a five-year period were traced to U.S. manufacturers or U.S. dealers who import firearms, according to statistics of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Then

Between 2007 and 2011, Mexican law enforcement submitted 99,691requests to the ATF for tracing, and 68,161 of those firearms were determined to come from U.S. makers or were legally imported into the United States by federally licensed firearms dealers.

So which is it? Were 68% of weapons recovered from the US, or were 68% of weapons submitted by Mexico from the US? I am betting they are not submitting huge numbers of AK47 assault rifles to the US for tracing. Also, how many were sent there by the US government arms contracts with mexican government? Not to mention "fast and furious".. It would be nice if there were a report which at least tried to be unbiased and honest.

[bobclark86]

7. 68% of guns submitted for tracing...

were either MADE in the US (not unreasonable, as we are the largest arms dealer in the world) or sold through a U.S. FFL -- NOT 68 percent of ALL guns used in Mexican crime. I'd like to know how those full-auto AKs got there (as in there are only a handful legally owned in the US anyway) which they don't bother to trace.

[AtheistCrusader]

9. I would look toward N. Korea for that one.

But yes, it's only the percentage that was submitted.

Also includes weapons made in the US, transferred by the US government to Mexican law enforcement and military, and was subsequently stolen from them by the cartels.

[pipoman]

10. stolen or embezzled..

[AtheistCrusader]

11. Oh, sure. The cartels have infiltrated the Mexican government deeply.

And they will continue such until we get our shit together and end the War On Some Drugs, as Portugal has.

It's a public health issue. Not a puritan crusade.

[pipoman]

12. Agreed

[spin]

13. Agreed. Our effort to ban drugs has failed ...

and there is little reason to expect an effort to ban firearms will succeed either.

Banning items fails more often than it works and there are often unexpected consequences.

I believe that ending our War on Drugs would do far to stop gun violence than reinstating another assault weapons ban.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

14. Well, perhaps they should build a wall to keep Americans and their guns out.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

15. baha! spit coffee out my nose!

[ileus]

17. with a 131ft deep base to prevent tunnels.

[ileus]

16. Sound like America needs to give up the 2A....think about the Mexicans.

Heartless Americans arming Mexican drug runners for nothing more than profit.

[GreenStormCloud]

18. How many guns were recovered that were not submitted to the U.S. for tracing?

If a gun has Russian, Chinese, North Korean or Arabic (Egypt makes AK-47s too) markings markings, common sense says that they won't submit it to the U.S. for tracing. The U.S. isn't the only country in the world that makes guns.

In some other countries you can buy a genuine, select fire, AK-47 for $50.00 and then smuggle a bunch of them into Mexico. The cartels are experts at smuggling and bribery. Why would they pay hundreds in the U.S. for a semi-auto only knock-off of an AK when they can get the real thing for about $50.00?

During the Cold War both the U.S. and Russia flooded Central America with assault rifles for the proxy wars. Guns are durable items and most of those guns are still around.