Strollin' thru town, my AR15 at my side

[jimmy the one]

The president of a Maine gun owners group said he and his peers were troubled by a gun-rights activist's decision to walk with an assault rifle in Portland Monday [dec 31,2012], an incident that drew a police response but did not result in any citations or arrests.

Monday [morning] the Portland Police Dept began receiving calls about a white male in his twenties walking in the West End of the city carrying a rifle."He was an open carry activist and just wanted to do it because he could,"
.. The man was found to be carrying an AR15 style assault rifle with a high capacity magazine, "The individual identified himself as an open carry activist who was exercising his Second Amendment rights to openly carry a firearm,"
.. The department received approximately 65 calls about the man, and officers ultimately encountered him... "The individual was not in violation of any laws or ordinances and was not detained," .. But officers gave the area "heavy special attention" until approximately 2:30 p.m. when the man left the area, Rogers said.

.. president of Maine Gun Owners Association Inc. based in Yarmouth, issued a statement about the incident. "Openly carrying an AR-15 or equivalent rifle, or any long-gun for that matter, in a heavily populated municipal area is inherently threatening to most everyone, whether they themselves are gun owners or not," "While I fundamentally support the right to openly carry firearms, that right is accompanied with the responsibility to employ sensible behavior during the exercise of the open-carry right. Alarming people unnecessarily is not the intended purpose of open-carry. The recent open-carry incident in Portland does not reflect the typical behavior of a huge percentage of Maine gun owners. Virtually all responsible gun owners with whom I've spoken since the incident are disturbed by it and wish it hadn't happened."

Gee, a gunnut even the gunnuts don't care for. Except maybe Wayno.

(oops, forgot to get link, sorry too late now; that was about it - likely bring it up googling a sentence excerpt).

[bunnies]

1. Why the fuck should it be legal

for a guy to carry around an AR15 with a high capacity magazine in a the middle of a city? I go to Portland all the time and if I EVER saw something like that I would likely never go back. What the hell is the purpose of this other than to terrorize people?

edit: On Christmas Eve no less.
link: http://www.pressherald.com/news/Man-with-gun-attracts-attention-on-Back-Cove-trail.html

[crazyrayray]

4. I don't know

First: the mans actions were legal.
Second: he was exercising his rights.
Third: Although I own several rifle and magazines, I wouldn't consider carrying my rifle on me, unless conditions existed to justify such a stance. I do however carry concealed a pistol at all times. Also in my vehicle there is a secondary pistol, and usually an AR or shotgun secured safely from the publics eye.
Fourth: what is a high capacity magazine that you describe?

[jimmy the one]

5. would jefferson approve?

ray: First: the mans actions were legal. Second: he was exercising his rights.

Yet he rec'd condemnation, rightly so, from the pro gun group. Were you to see this guy walking in your neighborhood with his assault rifle in broad daylight, would you rush out to meet him & chat about how neat his rifle is? or guntalk? or ask him to leave your area? 65 disconcerted portlanders reported the gunnutcreep to the cops.

Let's review what thomas jefferson wrote to his nephew attending wm & mary college in 1785:

TJ:Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks.

Does TJ justify carrying assault rifles in the streets for self protection? or to 'exercise your gun rights'? Hardly.
.. at that time the single shot musket was the predominant firearm, which precluded mass shootings. To stage a robbery or assault with a single shot musket generally put you at a disadvantage to someone carrying a simple knife.
.. anyway, jefferson was NOT advising his nephew to carry the firearm for self defense, he was recommending carrying the musket for EXERCISE reasons (believe it or don't); the weight of the musket made the walker expend more energy during the walk, & sure, perhaps added gun handling skill for use later in militia drills.
.. here's a fuller excerpt from jeff's letter, note there is no mention of self defense, no mention of loading the gun (a stupid consideration since powder could get damp eventually - humidity, a waste of gunpowder):

thomas jefferson to his nephew, 1785: In morality, read Epictetus, Xenophontis Memorabilia, Plato's Socratic dialogues, Cicero's philosophies, Antoninus, and Seneca.
In order to assure a certain progress in this reading, consider what hours you have free from the school and the exercises of the school. Give about two of them, every day, to exercise; for health must not be sacrificed to learning. A strong body makes the mind strong.
As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body, and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. Never think of taking a book with you.
The object of walking is to relax the mind. You should therefore not permit yourself even to think while you walk; but divert your attention by the objects surrounding you. Walking is the best possible exercise. Habituate yourself to walk very far.
The Europeans value themselves on having subdued the horse to the uses of man; but I doubt whether we have not lost more than we have gained, by the use of this animal. No one has occasioned so much, the degeneracy of the human body. An Indian goes on foot nearly as far in a day, for a long journey, as an enfeebled white does on his horse; and he will tire the best horses. There is no habit you will value so much as that of walking far without fatigue. I would advise you to take your exercise in the afternoon: not because it is the best time for exercise, for certainly it is not; but because it is the best time to spare from your studies; and habit will soon reconcile it to health, and render it nearly as useful as if you gave to that the more precious hours of the day. A little walk of half an hour, in the morning, when you first rise, is advisable also. It shakes off sleep, and produces other good effects in the animal economy. Rise at a fixed and an early hour, and go to bed at a fixed and early hour also.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/let31.asp

from above: The object of walking is to relax the mind. You should therefore not permit yourself even to think while you walk

What great advice to someone today walking about with a loaded gun, eh?

So don't think jefferson was supporting any right to bear arms, by writing this. He was supporting a 'right to carry an unloaded musket for exercising the body'. As a deadweight.

[Ashgrey77]

10. Funny that you ignored this part.

"As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."


What do you think he meant by that?



"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States


"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine

[holdencaufield]

6. Many protests ...

... most in fact ... will annoy and outrage significantly more than they enlighten or educate. But that is the methodology of the protest -- to shake people from complacency. It doesn't matter if you're chaining yourself to a tree or blocking a busy intersection with bicycles -- many more people will be upset with your protest than will ever stop to consider it's meaning or worth.

That the man's protest was counter-productive and inflammatory might also be said of the much lauded "OWS Movement" that faded away so unceremoniously while making frak-all difference in anything.

[jimmy the one]

7. protest, or exercising a right?

caufield: That the man's protest was counter-productive and inflammatory....

Protest? I thought he was 'exercising his 2ndA right'. What was he 'protesting' then? What infringement on the 2nd amendment has occurred the past 5 years to set him off so?
.. Oh, is it, we gonna ban assault rifles, so he's protesting in advance? I guess that's it eh? You ain't gonna take my assault rifle away from meeeeeee. I bet tears came to his eyes as he walked, stroking the barrel.
So I surmise, A Pre-emptive Protest.

That the man's protest was counter-productive and inflammatory might also be said of the much lauded "OWS Movement" that faded away so unceremoniously while making frak-all difference in anything.

So then, you wouldn't mind if people started walking about your neighborhood open carrying assault rifles? not that it's really possible to conceal any, unless you got a big overcoat I supppose, tho the limp could raise eyebrows.
Would you go out & shout support, right on! YEAH! you tell em baby! pfffft. If you would, you belong in a similar category as he.

[holdencaufield]

9. "you wouldn't mind if people started walking about your neighborhood open carrying assault rifles?"

No -- I don't suffer from hoplophobia or ergalilektriphobia or any other fear of inanimate objects. But, then again, many of my neighbours open carry and I'm used to it.

[ManiacJoe]

2. Old news. Join the existing thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117298079

[Eleanors38]

8. IMO, the states can regulate the means of carry...

By defending the RKBA in the open manner, or by defending the RKBA in a concealed manner, or by defending both manners of carry. They cannot deny both. Maybe those who object to open-carry should push for restrictions, as long as concealed-carry protections are in place.

[jimmy the one]

11. boldness to the mind

ashgrey: Funny that you ignored this part.

jefferson: "As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

ashgrey: What do you think he meant by that?

I'm supposed to remark on every sentence? it appeared self explanatory. It supports my contention.

TJ: As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind.

Sure, while walking about with your musket, it could give boldness to the mind - I've got my musket I'm a bold guy ready to defend my country. Might indeed scare off people 'on campus', impress some of the gals.
Gives independence to the mind -- I suppose; could handle it in different positions, body functions emanate from the brain you know.
Dunno about enterprise, too subjective for me.
Since you brought it up, what do YOU think it says or implies? to counter what I contend?

JJefferson: Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body, and stamp no character on the mind.

Note the above sentence; jefferson feels that carrying the musket stamps character on the mind, which ties in with giving the mind the characteristics of boldness, enterprise & independence. I can see how carrying a musket would've made an early american feel bold, & independent, reminiscent of using muskets in the rev-war.

fuller quote: As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body, and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. Never think of taking a book with you.
The object of walking is to relax the mind. You should therefore not permit yourself even to think while you walk; but divert your attention by the objects surrounding you. Walking is the best possible exercise. Habituate yourself to walk very far.

[jimmy the one]

12. Bogus Quote from Ashgrey, & one altered?

ashgrey falsely quotes jefferson: "Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson

Bogus Quote, Jefferson never said that. The official thomas jefferson website, monticello.org says so:

Earliest known appearance in print: No appearances in print found. [1]
Earliest known appearance in print, attributed to Thomas Jefferson: See above.
Other attributions: None known.
Status: We have not found any evidence that Thomas Jefferson said or wrote, "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."
http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/spurious-quotations

Ashgrey quotes, or misquotes?, thomas paine: "The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them." Thomas Paine

madison link puts it this way: "The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside... Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them...."

"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them." (Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775)
http://www.madisonbrigade.com/t_paine.htm

Thomas Paine was speaking of defensive war, and the benefits of arming the 'law abiding' militia. Somebody in charge of the 2nd Amendment mythology bible evidently switched 'law abiding' for 'half the world', since it makes it sound like paine was speaking more about individuals rather than militias.