Did you expect or demand to be "worshipped" for your service?

[pinboy3niner]

I certainly didn't. In my time you were better off not letting anyone know you served in Vietnam. Because of our VN experience, returning troops today enjoy widespread expressions of public support.

Yet the notion of vets expecting or demanding worship has percolated up in some threads in GD. I won't call out any particular posters, but if you've been following there, you've seen it. In the discussions about troops and vets and their service it has to be about the most horsepuckiest thing I've seen.

The returning vets I see today are embarrassed to be thanked for their service. And when they're thanked by a VN vet they protest, "But we didn't go through what you guys did." And we have to tell them that we only had to do one involuntary tour, and we weren't stop-lossed past our DEROS or ETS.

It's certainly valid to call out blind support for the military, or at least the policies it is assigned to execute and the MIC and the contracts for more military hardware and the neocon machinations for more war. But when that criticism is commingled with attacks on the service of military personnel and vets, many of us have a righteous objection.

Many of the returning vets I see are struggling to survive, and to not do something desperate before that next VA appointment that is months away. They graciously accept our thanks, while knowing that our espressions of support do nothing to help them get the real support they need.

Demanding worship? Hell, some of the vets I see are living under bridges or--dangerously--in culverts where there's a risk of flash floods here.

Of all the criticism of troops and vets, the assertion that they demand to be "worshipped" is one that really chaps my ass. It is an ignorant claim that invariably comes from one who has never served.

What I have is the utmost respect for all of my brother and sister vets who have served--wherever they served--in war or in peace. And my commitment to help, wherever I can, those who are struggling.

[MADem]

1. Not in the slightest. I do think we have a few folks here who like to troll and divide on the topic

though. They love to stir the pot and fling shit--I find that annoying, and I'm pretty sure you do as well. I am also quite sure that the only uniform those shit stirrers ever wore involved an overabundance of polyester, a paper hat, and the phrase "Do you want fries with that?"

I think most of us "get it"--we know what we did in uniform, what we didn't do, what we might have done...but most of us, imperfect as many of us were, did the best we could and took our duties seriously. Some of us were luckier than others, certainly. None of us knew when we took the oath what was ahead.

We didn't ask to be worshiped, we simply hoped to not get shit upon, and to come back in one piece, more or less.

The reason many people DO take the time to thank vets for their service is because they--like most of us--have a sibling, a child, a parent, an uncle, a friend--someone--who was drafted in the Vietnam era. Many remember those who came back changed, and those who didn't come back at all. And how shitty they were treated, most of all.

People blamed the soldiers instead of the people who sent the soldiers. Those folks with an appreciation of history and a modicum of intelligence remember this, and they're determined to not repeat it. Servicemembers are instruments, they don't make policy, and people who don't get that have a knowledge problem.

The purpose of these divisive troop threads that we've seen, I think, is to provide a link to rightwing snarkers in an effort to "prove" that Democrats don't support the troops. To that, I say, Fuck 'em. The people who wore uniforms and who now serve in Congress are overwhelmingly Democrats. The Commander in Chief who stopped tippy-toeing around and got off his ass and got Bin Ladin was a Democrat. The GOP can't play the "We Love The Troops and You Commie Traitors Don't" card anymore. And that, IMO, is why we're seeing so much enthusiasm on some of these threads--they have a purpose outside of DU, and that purpose is to spread around more than a little bit of horseshit!

I'm with you on support for veterans-- I think the attention to and care for those who served in combat/combat support by the VA system can't be overfunded. I think we need more research, not less, into PTSD, and we need more and better opportunities for community based support. I think that the VA should find ways to do basic medical outreach that offers 'triage' assessments to seek out and deliver psychological help to those who are suffering silently. I think we as a nation need to patch up those folks that we broke--it's like Powell's Pottery Barn--only we're dealing with PEOPLE. We can't just buy 'em off, we have to try to fix them as best we can. It's a worthwhile investment. What is a nation that won't care for the neediest of their citizens--and that includes the citizens who served as soldiers?
It's the very least we can do. The very least.

[Scuba]

2. "We didn't ask to be worshiped, we simply hoped to not get shit upon .."

Sums it up for this vet.

[pinboy3niner]

4. Amen, brother, and well said

You, like me, have probably had your own struggles.

To be really honest, I'm lucky I'm still here. And to think that at one time I thought officers were supposed to be immune, lol.

The really sad thing is that these notions are not coming just from trolls. I've seen them voiced even by long-time DUers who are true progressives. That, to me is a sign of the disconnect between our military and the public today.

[MADem]

7. True progressives or not, I'll wager they don't know a single servicemember on a personal level.

They might have a jerky in-law who once served and is a Tea Partier, and they extrapolate. That is a failure to use the old noodle on their part--and it's a big failure, IMO.

What they don't realize is that we are just PEOPLE--and we come from all walks of life. We're not all Alan Wests, most of us are Daniel Inouyes and Tammy Duckworths and John Kerrys. If they hate US, they have to hate themselves--because, like it or not, we're them.

I think the Democratic Party as an entity isn't having the same "disconnect" that a small minority here are having. I also think there's more than one perspective at play in some of those threads, too, and I don't think some of the shitstirring participants are terribly "site supportive," if ya know what I mean!

Every day above ground is a good one--that's my motto, and I'm sticking to it!

[DrDan]

3. 2 decades active/reserves - and never once expected that

I am always embarrassed when I get a "thanks for your service" - I quickly change the subject.

However - I also never expected the disdain for vets (in general) that has recently surfaced here. Disgraceful imo. ,

[Katashi_itto]

5. I hate getting "thanks for your service" it always seems so fake.

[MADem]

9. "Thank YOU for your support" usually enables an easy transition to another topic.

I'd rather be thanked than excoriated, though nowadays, I don't get much of any of that and I stay under the radar. I don't hang out at a lot of places where vets gather (unless the commissary and exchange count!) these days, but I'm not feeling any "disdain" from civilian Democrats in my 'liberal, northeastern' state--not in the slightest...so I think a lot of this angst and agita are limited to a small subset of people who just won't know what to do or who to complain about when the drawdown really starts crunching the end strength numbers downward and those servicmembers are competing with them for jobs in the civilian workforce.

[TahitiNut]

6. I wanted ONE thing.

I merely wanted to have family and friends to be glad I was "home." That's all. THAT'S what I focused on every day I crossed off another day on my short-timer's calendar ("I'm so short I can't see over my boot tops&quot . It was natural, however, to idealize "getting back to the world" - in imperceptible steps, day by day, focused on the 'good' and forgetting the 'bad.' No brass bands. No parades. Just hugs and happiness.

Instead, it was as though I'd farted in church. I was a leper.

[pinboy3niner]

8. I hear you, brother

After being wounded and medevac'd back, I was called "baby-killer" and other names on my first pass from the hospital.

The only thing I really wanted was just for somebody to understand what we'd been through, and what that was like for us. That's all. Just somebody to understand.

[Demo_Chris]

10. No.

[tularetom]

11. It wasn't voluntary and it wasn't worthy of thanks or adoration

I did what I was told for a couple of years and all I wanted was to get out so I could start making some fucking money.

The help I got paying for my education was thanks enough for me.

In all the years that have passed I've been thanked for my service maybe half a dozen times. I've always respondedjust as I posted here. Pretty much changes the subject every time.

[4Q2u2]

12. NO

I hate worshiping anything or anyone my self, so why would I want others to do that to me. Just creepy, it always made me unconfortable when people thanked me for doing something I wanted to do. What we want for support is to not have our service held against us.

[RedstDem]

13. it has a lot to do with guilt

the feelings people have for Bush sending these guys into needless, and illegal war.

my only hope is the next illegal war we go into, namely Iran, more officers refuse.
what was there, only one officer out all the services that had the courage to say no?

[TahitiNut]

17. You're asking the wrong people.

Those in military service are the BOTTOM of the totem pole. We The People are at the top. WE'RE responsible for what our nation does in our name! All the whining about "THEY" got us into this and ""THEY" don't listen and it's "THEIR" fault is just a grand cop-out. Expecting people who've sworn an oath, and have placed their liberties "in trust," to take an even greater risk to their lives and liberties and violate their oath is appallingly noxious to me. It's OUR job!

When I agreed to serve and took the oath upon induction, it was an act of faith and trust in our democratic form of government and the PEOPLE who comprise a "Nation." A "nation" isn't dirt, it's people. Guys (and gals) in their late teens or twenties are just starting out and have a lot to learn. While "adults" in the legal sense, we were apprentices ... citizens in training. As long as we TEACH the ideals of our nation, we'd damned well ought to live up to them!

The exceptions DON'T become the rule ... they PROVE the rule. In the final analysis, it's up to The People to take responsibility for their own governance... whether they're Egyptian, Syrian, Iraqi, Afghan, French, American, or any other. Some take responsibility for their own governance by emigrating to a country they prefer. (Unless it's Canada while they await an "ally-ally-in-free." Others step up and do what's NECESSARY.

[RedstDem]

18. I agree, youre right

I was surprised that only one officer out of so many service members refused illegal orders though.
I could be wrong about that, I only heard of one, there may have been more.

[msedano]

14. When duty calls and says you must...

I groused all the way to the bus that drove me to the Induction Center. Put in my 19 months, 13 in Korea in air defense artillery, and came home to find a job.

I know lots of Veterans, and not a one of us ever mentioned being entitled to anything like "worshipped" nor even thanks. A group of Veterans in the El Lay area hold "Welcome Back Vietnam Veterans Day" events. Here's news on the 2013 iteration ( http://www.whvvd.org/Home.html ):

On Saturday April 13, 2013 WHVVD, Inc. will host the 5th annual WHVVD celebration at California High School in Whittier from 11 AM to 4:30 PM. As always there will be live music, food, booths with information for our Veterans in regard to school, benefits, health, etc. There will also be vendors with items from books written by Veterans to military paraphernalia, blankets, Native American items and of course we have or Kiddie Korner with free face painting and jumpers for the kids. We will have our military vehicle display and Classic Car Show.

I ask ALL Veterans and folks who read this email to spread and share the date, time and place of our event. Some Veterans have asked me why I continue to have these events, how many times do we need to be welcomed home? At the beginning, this was about fixing the past, about acknowledging the service of all Veterans that served in and during the VN War. Today this celebration is important because we have fun when we come together, the brotherhood, the meeting of other Veterans, the pride that shows on our family member's faces as they show us off. But in my heart I also feel it serves to acknowledge that we made a mistake, as a nation, at the end of the VN War and that March 30 will always be a reminder that America will never again blame the Veterans for delivering the message WE sent them to deliver. And the big plus is we get to meet the new Veterans that come to our celebration.

[tavalon]

15. recommended for the use of "horsepuckiest"

Best new word of the season.

[sarisataka]

16. Never

I offered to do a job for my country, my fellow service members and myself. Combat happened to be a part of that. I knew it was possible going in and accepted it as a job hazard.

After many years and government paid vacations to less traveled areas of the world I would get embarrassed even when new boots asked if I had decorations going down my back. I would point out one down below the middle and tell them THIS is the one I am proud of:


When civilians thank me I answer remember those who serve us.

Those you mention who criticise, then waffle when called on it I am reminded of a quote from Gen. Patton

Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.

Welcome home brothers and sisters

[ThoughtCriminal]

19. Online debating RW Vets during the Iraq invasion/occupation

They would inevitably bring up their service record as a card to play. That somehow, the time they spent in in the military gave them inside knowledge and expertise that gave their pro-war position extra credibility. And that by taking the other side, I was doing the equivalent of spitting on them. At the same time, they did not hesitate to post the worst attacks on Kerry's military record.

I particular, there was one - who served on a submarine during Vietnam - mentioned this on every thread where the topic of Iraq came up. After getting a bit tired of this line of reasoning, I hit him with a simple reply:

Jimmy Carter.

[Victor_c3]

21. I noticed that with a lot of the "pro-war" republican veterans

They are proponents of the use of military force, yet all of the ones that I've ever seen post on my favorite conservative dominated forum never actually served in a combat function. Or, if they did serve in a combat function, they served during peace or were never actually deployed to combat.

I'm sure that they are out there, but I've never once seen a "pro-war" combat veteran. I believe that experiencing war up close and personal and dealing with the results of your weapons first hand shocks the pro-war out of people. It sure did for me. I grew up staunchly conservative, even voted for bush in 2000, deployed to Iraq in 2004, and found myself in a very rough place in Iraq doing some very nasty things. My experiences in Iraq turned me HARD to the left on my ideals.

[ThoughtCriminal]

22. And some that do claim combat experience are likely phonies

Hard to prove one way or another, but it's pretty safe to say that the keyboard commando Rambos are obvious fakes.

[TahitiNut]

23. Absolutely! There are a LOT of "comic book veterans."

In the 80s, we saw more than four times as many people CLAIMING to be Viet Nam veterans as actually served in Viet Nam. It was stunning to me. I'd spent the 70s trying to 'overcome' being recognized as a Viet Nam vet ... keeping my head down, so to speak. Hell, we weren't welcome at the American Legion or VFW ... seen as "losers." The VFW has changed, being an organization that requires significant foreign WAR service. (The Legion has no such requirement.) The VFW has been comprised of a majority of Viet Nam vets for some time ... and are diligent in requiring a DD214 to verify service.

So, in a way, I know what it's like to be "in the closet." I "came out" in the mid-80s, mostly as a reaction to the hoo-rah bullshit of the Reagan administration.

We're still overrun with FAUX Viet Nam veterans. There are only about 750,000 of us still alive. Do the math.

[Victor_c3]

24. Wow, I had no idea that there weren't more "real" Vietnam vets out there

I have heard of the massive amounts of fake Vietnam vets, but I had no idea that there were so few guys who were actually there. Maybe it is a result of the quantity of fake vets out there, but it seems that I run into more Vietnam vets than I do Iraq/Afghanistan vets- and there are about 2.3 million veterans of my era.

[w8liftinglady]

20. none of the vets I know do...and they HATE it...

when they are pimped by someone who never saw a war zone.
Example...I went to Branson,Mo with a friend who was a VietNam and Gulf War Vet.Every freaking show we went to waved their flag and asked the veterans to stand.My friend reluctantly stood,after we prodded him and his cousin to stand.
The audience was speckled with a few aging vets.WW2 vets seemed to be the most OK with standing in recognition.
Those same bastards that wave their flags want to cut The VA Budget.They don't support veterans.They might as well just be honest about it.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

25. Gratitude and admiration are not what's needed ...

... Vets don't seem to get enough information after their service. I got out after my two years (draftee), serving nowhere near Vietnam (REMF in Germany). I had to jump through some hoops to figure out the GI Bill. I never found out about V.A. medical benefit eligibility.

Vet organizations weren't much help. I didn't qualify for VFW since I wasn't in any war, and was "shown the door" at the local American Legion post because I let my hair grow (Hey, it was the '60's).

Lately, some local politicians have organized education meetings, bringing in reps from various V.A. or related groups to talk about benefits, eligibility, contacts, web sites, and procedures. I've dragged some vets to those meetings and helped with paperwork to get them into the system, with health and pension benefits. My career has helped me become comfortable with bureaucracy, so I can put up with the paper chase. Not all vets have the temperament for that, so need help to get through those hoops in a peaceful fashion.

I should probably look more into burial benefits, though I'm in no great hurry for that .

[DrDan]

26. I think the info is there - one has to spend some time finding it - it is not spoon-fed

at least that is my experience

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

27. Hopefully, Google is better now than it was 45 years ago.

And it still takes a little perserverence to get some benefits activated.

Plus, of course, those of us who are star-members on DU are more computer-savvy, more intelligent, and better-looking than other vets who may need a little assistance.

[DrDan]

29. and where were you in Germany? I was in A.F. at Sembach for 3 years

but my job had me traveling around the country to other Army and U.S.A.F. (and some German A.F.) sites quite a bit

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

30. Mohringen

It was a little place. I think the nearest AF base was Sindelfingen.

[DrDan]

31. never visited either of those - but sure did enjoy trips to Stuttgart

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

32. Maybe the AF base was called "Echterdingen"

After this many years, I think I mixed up Airplanes with Cars (a big deal in Sindelfingen).

I have to dust off that brain cell.

[glowing]

28. My brother in law doesn't like all that hero worship shit or Thanks for your Service.

If you know him, then you know he just got back and you give him a hug (he does big bear hugs) and say "I'm glad you got your butt back here alive and well". That's the bigger deal. He sacrifices for his family. The military is a stabilizer in a rocky job market. He can't wait to make a move back to the private sector of life. He's had 1 tour in Iraq and another in Afghanistan. AND yes, the bs on tv is bs, there is no reason to be there other than waste money for the MIC.

I almost think the war is going still thru 2014 because it will take another couple of years to get the job market in the US back into play, and throwing out the war machine for "green jobs" and other infrastructure projects that need to get done and would be a fabulous use of manufacturers and people to transition into. With the current "Do Nothing" Congress, its harder to transition or even spend money. I believe that's why Obama wants a Republican at the Dept of Def while he starts slashing and finding money for himself to "build" here in America (which is extremely popular, BTW). The man has to leave office with his name on a few freeways or train depots... LOL.