'Portrait of black women in America"
'Survey paints portrait of black women in America'
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/survey-paints-portrait-of-black-women-in-america/2011/12/22/gIQAvxFcJQ_story.html
The angry black woman. The strong black woman. The unfeeling black woman. The manless black woman.
“Black women haven’t really defined themselves,” says author Sophia Nelson, who urges her fellow sisters to take control of their image. “We were always defined as workhorses, strong. We carry the burdens, we carry the family. We don’t need. We don’t want.”
I'm not quite sure what I think about this yet. But I'm leaning towards the idea that as ignored and maligned as black women are, any attention is probably good attention.
Needless to say that this piece has gotten alot of eyeballs already.
"Black Women in America: A look at The Post’s new series"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ask-the-post/post/black-women-in-america-a-look-at-the-posts-new-series/2012/01/23/gIQAs9ykLQ_blog.html
Reporter Krissah Thompson responded to this question on our She The People blog. Thompson also teamed up with Jon Cohen, The Post’s director of polling, to address similar questions in a Q&A with readers.
= new reply since forum marked as read
rec'd
it really has always been the "blonde, blonde and more blonde"s who defined that as beauty. it's just that they control (and have unceasingly mass-murdered resistance to that control, and mass-hypnotized/terrorized expressed perception) ... well, just about everything, but media in this instance ...
so far.
everyone else in the world (including many blonds, themselves) has seen blonde as naked of essential, even spiritual, melanin ... and correspondingly shallow. (just dangerous to say to their faces.)
the more who speak it, the more we realize we've all agreed on that, all along. the numbers you cite tell the truth of that, and THAT, as you note, is real evidence of a sea change!!!
thank you for speaking it, dear one!
Number23! 
I am
and 
and 
all at the same time!!
The thing is, I think that blonde hair and blue eyes are very pretty. (Personally, the Caucasian ideal to me would be blue eyes and black hair. I used to LOVE me some Linda Carter aka Wonder Woman back in the day).
But this idea that this is the only, true GENUINE beauty ideal has always baffled me. I don't see blue eyed blondes as being ONE DAMN WHIT prettier than any green eyed redheads or brown eyed brunettes. I have absolutely NEVER understood the propping up of this very narrow, very RACE SPECIFIC beauty standard except as a way of white people once again asserting their own superiority by minimizing and ignoring everyone else. I swear, it really does seem that white folks are absolutely TERRIFIED of being on the same playing field as everyone else.
There is no way in the world that anyone can EVER convince me that this girl:
is automatically more beautiful than this girl:
or this one
just because her skin is white, her eyes are blue and her hair is blonde.
All three of these women are models. From the top, Lara Stone, Liya Kebede and Lakshmi Menon.
We are bombarded every day with what I feel are average looking blonde/white women in the media. While black, Asian, and Hispanic women have to be exceptionally gorgeous to get the same exposure. I have no doubt that this is the reason that black women in particular, have just about completely ignored the "Western beauty standard" and embrace our own beauty so wholeheartedly.
i agree that there are gorgeous women of every color and shade ...
even some white blue-eyed blondes 
one element i want to add is that white men dominate the standards, and are misogynous toward ALL women. white men sexualize women of color because they also find darker women to be more attractive. but they want their personally owned women - the procreators of their 'race' - not to be erotic.
but they also do not want women of color's attractiveness to translate into privilege. they intend their women to dominate all other women (as instruments of their own power).
some of what is changing is that white women are growing more allowed to be erotic, including more privilege extended to darker white women - Wonder Woman, Jolie ...
just a smidge of some elements when considering white male-dominated media's progress, "'avante garde,' ... actually running several years behind the rest of the nation in what is considered beautiful."
dear Number23, this is deeply joyful to read! :
how confident and self-sufficient black women perceive themselves to be.
We are bombarded every day with what I feel are average looking blonde/white women in the media. While black, Asian, and Hispanic women have to be exceptionally gorgeous to get the same exposure. I have no doubt that this is the reason that black women in particular, have just about completely ignored the "Western beauty standard" and embrace our own beauty so wholeheartedly.
that explains that a lot. a kind of mixed blessing, after all.
i have seen that confident and self-sufficient self-perception in black women.
i am joyful that you embrace your own beauty "so wholeheartedly"!
but i have felt fiercely protective of black women when crap like that recent shit about black women being "not as attractive," blah blah puke blah was actually repeated, as if having any credence, by twisted media ...
so, reading that is intensely moving for me.
this is absolute fact:
... white folks are absolutely TERRIFIED of being on the same playing field as everyone else.
yes: NEVER let the playing field become LEVEL!! (what is that saying? loosely: if you have to handicap others to win, you have already lost?)
whites who are Thinking know the truth of whites remaining dominant only through those kinds of institutionalized manipulation of perceptions and of material reality. the difference in white supremacists is that for them there is NO COMPETITION on the only playing field that really matters to them: physical domination - i.e., violent oppression, brutality.
just thoughts, ill-formed, yet ....
but i also want to say
your words to me send me flying, sweet dearest Number23!!
you see, You have ALWAYS blown my mind with your incredible ready brilliance, your eloquence.
coming from you, my teacher and guide, and my cherished friend, thank you so very much!!
I agree wholeheartedly. But when you say but they want their personally owned women - the procreators of their 'race' - not to be erotic. I get a bit confused. As I said, we are absolutely bombarded with images of white women in the media, and most of them are highly sexualized (ie the modeling and porn industries). So can you clear that up for me, just a bit, Fury?
they intend their women to dominate all other women (as instruments of their own power).
Well, now that's the truth too but sadly, it's not just white men doing that. I'm sure you've read about Alice Walker's accounts of being a black woman trying to engage in the women's movement and always being made to feel "less than" or that she was a "guest" and never truly welcome by the white female organizers? She is the one who coined the term "womanism" to discuss these things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womanism
but i have felt fiercely protective of black women when crap like that recent shit about black women being "not as attractive," blah blah puke blah was actually repeated, as if having any credence, by twisted media
Sigh. I think alot of us don't really pay it any attention to be honest. It hurts for about five minutes but then we look at WHO is saying these things and typically, it is never anyone that the average black woman would give the time of day to so we move on pretty quickly.
whites who are Thinking know the truth of whites remaining dominant only through those kinds of institutionalized manipulation of perceptions and of material reality.
I take comfort in knowing that the number of whites who fall into this category seem to be growing by the day. (Am I right to feel that?) You can always count on a Tim Wise article here to shine the light. It seems to me that for every white person moaning that Wise has called them a "racist" (which he probably hasn't) there are just as many that seem willing to listen to what he's saying and maybe even agree. I take alot of encouragement from that.
Last edited Thu Jan 26, 2012, 08:34 PM - Edit history (1)
lots to think about there. thank you, Number23!
i meant it when i wrote mine were ill-formed thoughts. i apologize for that, and for swerving the topic of your thread that way. it was my confused and confusing attempt to add an element to the over-all subject of "RACE SPECIFIC beauty standard"s expressed in media - media controlled by dominant (heterosexual, privileged) white men. though i didn't connect this well, i was referring to the question of why mainstream fashion media is so slow in reflecting the true beauty standards of the entire world.
yes, blonde white mainstream models have become more sexualized, but even they only in recent generations. the appearance those dominant men - who practice eugenics - insisted media validate/depict for the women they were to reproduce with had always been more showcased in something like miss america pageants: corn-fed baby-makers-to-be. but they are not the women such men actually find most attractive, they are the ones they want mainstream media to imply they find most attractive. so, as you note, such media is completely out of step with the reality.
meanwhile, as people of color have increased economic power, even some mainstream media finally sees financial incentive for portraying more realistic standards. Liya Kebede, Lakshmi Menon, Alek Wek, and others you and JustAnotherGen posted pics of are gorgeous! in any but conservative mainstream media, there would now be little question of their being more attractive than Lara Stone. but my reply was only to that particular post of yours, and this:
I have absolutely NEVER understood the propping up of this very narrow, very RACE SPECIFIC beauty standard except as a way of white people once again asserting their own superiority by minimizing and ignoring everyone else.
yes, asserting only their own visibility (personhood!) at all!
i get, and am gratified by this:
Sigh. I think alot of us don't really pay it any attention to be honest. It hurts for about five minutes but then we look at WHO is saying these things and typically, it is never anyone that the average black woman would give the time of day to so we move on pretty quickly.
my true reaction is fury i feel at any racism, and that anyone is ever subjected to it - feels even five minutes of hurt.
but hearing SAID by black women, as widely as in the poll, what you expressed in " ... black women in particular, have just about completely ignored the 'Western beauty standard' and embrace our own beauty so wholeheartedly," gives me joy.
they intend their women to dominate all other women (as instruments of their own power).
Well, now that's the truth too but sadly, it's not just white men doing that. I'm sure you've read about Alice Walker's accounts of being a black woman trying to engage in the women's movement and always being made to feel "less than" or that she was a "guest" and never truly welcome by the white female organizers? She is the one who coined the term "womanism" to discuss these things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womanism
absolutely. i ought to have added, "and white women have been all too willing and happy to dominate."
i have LONG (30+years) revered Alice Walker as one of my teachers and guides, too (as i do you). i am not a "feminist" - though i support and work for women's rights. i am kind of in the womanist auxiliary. i embrace, support, study and further-as-possible, womanist principles; but i can not BE a womanist.
whites who are Thinking know the truth of whites remaining dominant only through those kinds of institutionalized manipulation of perceptions and of material reality.
I take comfort in knowing that the number of whites who fall into this category seem to be growing by the day. (Am I right to feel that?)
yes! it is true. and i am deeply pleased that you receive comfort from that. i do too.
You can always count on a Tim Wise article here to shine the light .... just as many that seem willing to listen to what he's saying and maybe even agree.
it is true that Tim Wise has much to do with it, since his increasingly widespread insights guide or challenge us to recognize how we feed and further white privilege, so we can ACT to change that.
I take alot of encouragement from that.
i am very pleased that you do. i do too.
thank you, more, very dear friend!
YES! i agree, she really IS amazing! brilliant, and incredibly strong!
more on all of this in threads to come ....
thank you for discussing with me, dear friend
Check out the book Sister Citizen. Not eye opening per se - but goes really into depth regarding the prevalent stereotypes of black women.
In regards to Allure - I find that interesting. . . But not shocking. I'm 38 - will be 39 next month. Even when I was a little girl many of my caucasian friends would say - Ooooh - I wish I was tan like you. So going back to the early 1980s - I believe it's true.
I've never gotten the hang of posting pics at DU but . .. I bake. Seriously bake. Trust me. I'm bi-racial - and would kill to look like this woman:
She is sooooo beautiful to me. The women up thread - ALL stunning. But there's something about the black woman with such dark beautiful skin that touches something inside of me. . . makes me say: She's okay - so I'm okay. Even though I will never look like her - that's the woman I wish I resembled. You can't tell me she's any less attractive than the three women up thread. And she's the 'softest' and most feminine to me. Actually - when I view women FROM Africa in the media - they always look sweet and feminine - in even the worst conditions. Mother earth.
The gorgeous supermodel from Sudan? 
I am also a fan of the up and comers like Yaya Dacosta 
and Nyashe Matonhodze 
(Yes, I read alot of fashion magazines. Probably way too many! )
You can't tell me she's any less attractive than the three women up thread.
You got that right. I'm sure you can guess which of the three models I posted is the one that's the most successful. And in my opinion, she is no where near as beautiful as the other two.
Liya Kebede is an African woman as well, she is Ethiopian. Who I think are by far (along with Indian women) the most beautiful women on this planet. And like you, I admire the smooth polished skin of a brown skinned black woman or man. Up until my husband, most of the guys I dated were the color of Hershey bars. Oh, so beautiful.
My daughters are bi-racial like you. My oldest, who is five, has already broken it down for us. About a year ago, she told my husband and I "mommy is brown and daddy is not." When I asked what she was, she looked at me like I was crazy and said "brown" like "of course I'm brown, you stupid woman!" So there it is.
And love that about your daughter. . . . My mom is of euro descent, my father black with post Civil War Irish and Cherokee - though he had the complexion of Idris Elba - and his father very very dark. His mom was a bit lighter than me with blue eyes.
Me at five visiting my dads parents done in Alabama- mommy has a light face, daddy has a dark face, and grand daddy you have a very very dark face. Your is the best.
My dads father laughed and said hush your mouth! aaaah - the joys of bi-racial children and their unique world view!
I think it's pretty obvious that it is a form of privilege. But it always strikes me as odd, the ones who have NO stake in racism or sexism or etc. etc. etc. are always the first ones offering their "thoughts" and "solutions" on how these issues affect those of us who ARE most affected by them. Some of my favorite posters on DU are white and we have had some FANTASTIC white allies here on DU. And conversely, there are some white folks here that I would throw eggs at if they came within 100 feet of me. And most of that is because they just seem to be SO consumed with black-ness but only to the extent of telling black folks what we should and should not discuss, how we should discuss things and even trying to explain black history, black culture and even BEING black to black people here. I must have missed the day we anointed an official Non-Negro Negro Spokesman.
I am also a black, Southern woman.
And yeah, the idea of someone neither black nor female coming into this forum or anywhere else black people have gathered and calling our discussions divisive, invalid etc. when we are talking about ourselves rubs me the wrong way as well. I doubt seriously that this will be considered a divisive article in an "African American" group? 
Perhaps you walked into the wrong group accidentally. The "Politically Correct" group is three doors down and looking for new members.